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Israel is under attack

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Where has anyone actually backed Hamas? Everyone I read who had issues with Israel's approach also condemned Hamas's actions as unacceptable. Most people seem to think both sides have used shady tactics and done questionable things. Which they have.

Hamas and the IDF blowing the shit out of each other would be one thing. But it's a fairly ridiculous standpoint to think you can drop air strikes without killing thousands of civillians.

I just wish Hamas and IDF forces could have their bullshit war without the thousands of innocent civillians being killed.

The issue here in this thread seems to be if you aren't 100% pro all Palestinians need to be wiped off the earth type of mentality then you are automatically classified as a 'jew hater'. Whereas the reality is some of us or myself anyway does not hate anyone apart from those who wish to carry out attrocities on innocent people. I don't know how that's so hard to comprehend.
 
While deeds and words can be contradicting and this was no way conclusive of anything, but I don't recall anyone stating HAMAS is a nice party when I asked if anyone has that opinion.
 
elgoucho9 said:
Everyone I read who had issues with Israel's approach also condemned Hamas's actions as unacceptable. Most people seem to think both sides have used shady tactics and done questionable things. Which they have.
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It's the 'both sides' bit that I would take issue with. Responding to being massacred is a very different thing to perpetrating an unprovoked massacre. When making a moral judgement, it makes sense to judge motivation as well as actions.

elgoucho9 said:
I just wish Hamas and IDF forces could have their bullshit war without the thousands of innocent civillians being killed.
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Again, we get to another crucial point. Hamas intentionally embed themselves with civilians to ensure that any war kills thousands. Their hope was that, because Israel have a modern defence force that subscribes to the various modern conventions on war, the IDF would seek to avoid mass civilian death and so would temper their military response. Hamas intentionally put civlians in the firing line. For Israel, the potential for the future to contain multiple October 7ths is unacceptable, and so this attack was the final straw. The cost to Hamas must either be the ultimate price or so steep that they cannot justify any further attacks like October 7th.


elgoucho9 said:
The issue here in this thread seems to be if you aren't 100% pro all Palestinians need to be wiped off the earth type of mentality then you are automatically classified as a 'jew hater'.
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Okay, who is saying:
100% pro all Palestinians need to be wiped off the earth
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My response to Soso should come with the context that he has always been a total bigot. Not just here in CEPS but across the forum and for years.
 
So the idf soldier doing the tic toc celebrating the death of innocent Palestinians has been captured by hamas.
She’s gonna have some serious problems now. Bet she’s not laughing anymore
 
Been over this already multiple times in this thread. Israel knew the Hamas attack was coming. Did nothing. Warned none of their own civillians. Despite being warned by their own IDF soldiers. And the Egyptian military. Didn't react for 7 hours after the attack. Why was this? So they could start a massive cull of Palestinians and take the land they want. Israel does not care one bit whether the people they kill are Hamas or Palestinian civilians. Let's be real here.

Yes Hamas do hide themselves in with the civilians. Which is grim behavior too. But they don't care about civillians either that goes for Palestinian or Israeli civillians. And this suits Israel to a tee them hiding among Palestinian civilians.

Both sides are blood hungry war mongers who want to wipe each others population out completely. And neither care about their own civillians one bit either. They care more about waging war and gaining progress towards their own goals and ideologies.

I try to be objective and take the wrongdoings of both sides into account. While also accepting truths and not ignoring the negative actions of either side. Many here still seem to want to ignore the fact Israel completely overlooked any intelligence they had about the attack happening on October 7th. Because it helps fit the narrative HaMaS TeRrOriSts. TeRoRiSts R bAd. While completely abdicating any negatives or similar behavior from the IDF. Even towards their own citizens the current Israeli government under Netenyahu is more like a military regime than a government. The people in Israel wanted him out before this. Now they're stuck with him, go figure.

Like I said already I couldn't care less if Hamas and the IDF blew each other to bits, if they weren't killing thousands of innocent people.

Yes Hamas are terrorists. But then many here don't want to also concede any of the similarly attrocious actions committed by the Israeli military. Such as cutting off the food and water supply to 2.2 million people. Using banned weapons/illegal gasses. Breaking their own truces. And a tonne of other similarly shitty tactics. They are no better than Hamas.

I have been called a Jew hater here for these views. And referred to as "one of the anti Israel mob" in other threads that have nothing to do with this even across the forum for having these views. When the reality quite simply is I wish the innocent civillians on either side didn't have to suffer as a result of this war mongering behavior.

Look at the state of the world now and the upshot this war has actually caused. How things are developing in the Red Sea.
"But Israel had to react", they knew it was happening before it even started, and now this reaction is most likely going to bring about a Nuclear war like the world has never seen before... some of us really didn't want to be in the middle of World War 3.

Take a step back and look where we as humanity are actually at. This war between Israel and Palestine is about to bring in all the countries with big military powers. Turkey have just said they will fight in Gaza on the side of the Palestinians. China and Russia have just warned Britain and America to stop attacking Houthi rebels in the Red Sea. Even if you don't care about other people who are far away's basic humanities your own are about to be brought into equation through all this war mongering behavior and fight for control. There will be no winners here that includes all of us.
 
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swilow said:
I don't really get what you're saying. I don't think religion is really motivating Israel in the slightest. They are, and have been for 75 years, fighting a war for survival. Despite what many apologists say, Hamas IS a religious organisation- their "ethics" are derived almost solely from Islam, the basis of their undying hatred for the Jews is derived from Islam, the way they governed Gaza was derived from Islam. Israel, while being known as the world's only Jewish state, is basically secular. It is a westernised political and social structure.

I understand that you don't want to take sides, and certainly, both sides here can be criticised. But that doesn't mean that both sides are equally wrong. Waging war against a group that attacks you is murky territory because war forces even the most noble to compromise their ethics, but I would argue that NOT waging war against an existential threat like Hamas is its own form of immorality.
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Israel is a religious nation. The current state was set up in recent times because of religious concerns. It being quite modern and secular doesn't change that.
 
swilow said:
Why does the fact you seem pleased not surprise me?
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I wouldn’t say I’m happy. Just think it serves her right. I was just saying She was laughing at Palestinians dying and now she’s not.
I hope lots more idf like her get killed.

Why is there so many young girls in the idf?
There seems lots more than in most armies
 
I just woke up hangover and very briefly looking at the definition of conscription; I am not sure. I think you are better off investigating IDF by yourself or waiting for someone else to chime in.
 
Soso78 said:
I wouldn’t say I’m happy. Just think it serves her right. I was just saying She was laughing at Palestinians dying and now she’s not.
I hope lots more idf like her get killed.
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Serves her right? Do you extend the same logic to the Palestinian children who grow up immersed within their equivalent nationalism (stateless terrorist ideology mixed with religious justifications)? Who in turn get blown up or shot when trying to exact their violence upon the other? In both cases they have been brainwashed to think along certain lines, how exactly is that their fault? It's a tragedy all round, not a reason for some sort of twisted moral celebration.

I would say you're happy about it. Don't bullshit.

Israel's military is predominantly young people. Conscripts. They have to do that, because Israel is a tiny population, and surrounded by many groups who want to harm Israel and its people. There is tremendous pressure to follow the line, having grown up in such a system.

I don't know what country you're from, but I'd start contemplating things just a bit more seriously. There's a lot of increasing talk about conscription coming back in Europe, the UK, and the USA. We all might find ourselves confronted by some difficult choices in the not so distant future - I've already made my decision as to what I would do.
 
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I think that she’s a silly girl who is basically a child still. I think she has the mentality she has because she’s been groomed and manipulated to have the beliefs she has.
The average age of an idf soldier is 20.

Israel is no better than hammas
 
Soso78 said:
I think that she’s a silly girl who is basically a child still.
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So where exactly does the 'serve her right' come in, if she's still a child? It's not like she's been sent to her room with no dinner, she's probably going to be physically and sexually abused, and possibly killed. That's not exactly a fair balance, as distasteful as it is to gloat over others deaths.

You don't stop that (her) type of behaviour by abusing and killing more people. Do you not see the endless circle of suffering, it's quite obvious.
 
It's like people picking sides as if it's football teams when it's human lives we are discussing.

It stands to reason most people who are Israeli or Palestinian will have heavy bias towards their own country. I would too if you started murdering my own countrymen/neighbours/family.
 
-=SS=- said:
So where exactly does the 'serve her right' come in, if she's still a child? It's not like she's been sent to her room with no dinner, she's probably going to be physically and sexually abused, and possibly killed. That's not exactly a fair balance, as distasteful as it is to gloat over others deaths.

You don't stop that (her) type of behaviour by abusing and killing more people. Do you not see the endless circle of suffering, it's quite obvious.
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Of course I see it. How many future hammas terrorist are being created right now by what Israel is doing.
At least she’s 20. Israel are knowingly killing babies and making an entire population suffer.
 
elgoucho9 said:
It's like people picking sides as if it's football teams when it's human lives we are discussing.

It stands to reason most people who are Israeli or Palestinian will have heavy bias towards their own country. I would too if you started murdering my own countrymen/neighbours/family.
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It's mad post something like this and it always seems to stir up a negative reaction.

@Pissed_and_messed out of curiosity which part do you find questionable for the 'Hmm 🤔' reaction? You know I respect you and also do not approve of the Israeli or Hamas's actions. But which part of that post do you not agree with I am curious more than anything.

What I was basically saying is to me like 90% or more in this thread have picked a side. Then don't really want to acknowledge any of the negative actions of that side. When if one is being objective, it's quite obvious both sides have done horrible things, both have lied, and would be willing to kill innocent people. And both are willing to do some more. Then the whole thing either way ends negatively for humanity. No good can possibly come of it either way.

On the whole yeah I do think the killing is disproportionate. And it is mainly Palestinians being killed (23x as many Palestinians have died as Israeli's so far, although that statistic is in relation to since the trouble between the two sides begun many years ago). I'd imagine this latest flair up in war between them is still heavily leaning on the fatalities being mostly of Palestinian in terms of numbers. I say Palestinian as I don't believe Israel's air strikes are somehow only hit Hamas militants. Something I've read others here don't agree with, which again seems crazy to me.

And before someone says but Palestine votes for Hamas. I'm Scottish, imagine me saying I vote for the SNP (I don't vote at all really), that doesn't mean I automatically approve if they wanted to wipe out all of England. With politics most people are choosing between the lesser of two evils. Americans voting between a choice of Biden or Trump should understand that well surely.
 
Soso78 said:
Of course I see it. How many future hammas terrorist are being created right now by what Israel is doing.
At least she’s 20. Israel are knowingly killing babies and making an entire population suffer.
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How many future militaristic zionists did hamas create by incessantly launching rockets at Israeli civilians for 30 years?

Uno Reverse GIF


Let's not forget that Hamas literally wanted this to happen. That's not an opinion, that's what they said.
 
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