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Israel is under attack

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pharmakos said:
Israel has launched more bombs at Gaza than the US did in Afghanistan in any given *year* of the Afghanistan conflict.
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Where do you get this data?

The only data I can find indicates that Hamas fires about 10 missiles at Israel for every 1 missile Israel fires at Gaza, Israel's rockets are just much more effective.

pharmakos said:
Your numbers are both very off regarding the number of rockets fired by each side.
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Yes I was exaggerating the numbers, the point I was making was unrelated to actual number of weapons fired and was about intent
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Where do you get this data?

The only data I can find indicates that Hamas fires about 10 missiles at Israel for every 1 missile Israel fires at Gaza, Israel's rockets are just much more effective.


Yes I was exaggerating the numbers, the point I was making was unrelated to actual number of weapons fired and was about intent
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Israel themselves has released data about how many rockets they fired. 2 weeks into the conflict they were already at 6,000. At this point it's probably more like 10,000. You literally just guessed when you said 100...
 
Does that include the iron dome defense missiles? They've definitely fired off a lot of those
 
pharmakos said:
Israel themselves has released data about how many rockets they fired. 2 weeks into the conflict they were already at 6,000. At this point it's probably more like 10,000.
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are you sure you're not confusing that number with Hamas' number?

Oct 13, 2023 — Israel has counted 6,000-plus incoming rockets so far. After the first day's 2,500-rocket barrage, it's now about 700 per day. Given their ...

I'm trying to find how many rockets Israel has launched, and I can't find it. Maybe they haven't released the amount or are scrubbing search results?

Anyways, I'm quite positive Hamas has launched magnitudes more of their $2 bottle rockets compared to Israel's very expensive American made rockets.
 
Electrum1 said:
Does that include the iron dome defense missiles? They've definitely fired off a lot of those
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edition.cnn.com

Israel has dropped the same number of bombs on Gaza in six days as during the entire 2014 conflict

Gaza's humanitarian crisis deepened Thursday with warnings people are at risk of starvation as Israel maintained a siege and bombarded targets in response to the Hamas terror attacks that killed more than 1,200 people.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com

I stand corrected, actually the 6,000 figure was the number of *bombs dropped* not the number of missiles. So, definitely doesn't include the Iron Dome munitions.

"Israeli forces have dropped about 6,000 bombs on Gaza between October 7 and 12, the Israeli Air Force (IAF) said in a statement Thursday. "
 
Snafu in the Void said:
are you sure you're not confusing that number with Hamas' number?

Oct 13, 2023 — Israel has counted 6,000-plus incoming rockets so far. After the first day's 2,500-rocket barrage, it's now about 700 per day. Given their ...

I'm trying to find how many rockets Israel has launched, and I can't find it. Maybe they haven't released the amount or are scrubbing search results?

Anyways, I'm quite positive Hamas has launched magnitudes more of their $2 bottle rockets compared to Israel's very expensive American made rockets.
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Yes, see above post. Note that the 6,000 bombs number was almost a month ago and they've been bombing steadily since.
 
assclass said:
i think you mean Iraq/Syria not Iran.

But yes, they are using people as human shields, then use collateral damage as propaganda that "jews bomb civilians"
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Yes you're right I meant part of Syria and Iraq.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Wanton violence begets wanton violence.
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100%. I know Christianity isn't popular here, and I know I've shared/said this before, but IMO both sides need Jesus. (Real Jesus, not the BS corrupted version of Christianity that most American "Christians" believe in)

"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

From the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5
 


Palestine Prime Minister - "Eliminating Hamas is totally not going to happen" ... "We need general elections, and Hamas will be included in those"

I agree that you can't eliminate terrorism with bombs. It's an idea, you can't kill an idea with physical violence.

However, people are constantly brushing Hamas aside as if it was a nonissue, immaterial, or a justified response.

This guy does not once denounce Hamas, in fact he considers them as regular Palestinians and says if they have general elections Hamas should be able to win and rule the country if they get the votes. The only way to eliminate Hamas within Palestine must be done by Palestinians themselves, and they do not seem to even entertain that idea.

Hamas apologist.

Does anyone believe Hamas will abide by a ceasefire? They certainly will not.
 
Snafu in the Void said:


Palestine Prime Minister - "Eliminating Hamas is totally not going to happen" ... "We need general elections, and Hamas will be included in those"

I agree that you can't eliminate terrorism with bombs. It's an idea, you can't kill an idea with physical violence.

However, people are constantly brushing Hamas aside as if it was a nonissue, immaterial, or a justified response.

This guy does not once denounce Hamas, in fact he considers them as regular Palestinians and says if they have general elections Hamas should be able to win and rule the country if they get the votes. The only way to eliminate Hamas within Palestine must be done by Palestinians themselves, and they do not seem to even entertain that idea.

Hamas apologist.

Does anyone believe Hamas will abide by a ceasefire? They certainly will not.
Click to expand...

I don't know a better system, so I'm not in 100% agreement with Plato here, but I understand why he made these statements...

"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty." -- Plato

"Democracy does not contain any force which will check the constant tendency to put more and more on the public payroll. The state is like a hive of bees in which the drones display, multiply and starve the workers so the idlers will consume the food and the workers will perish." -- Plato

"And is it not true that in like manner a leader of the people who, getting control of a docile mob, does not withhold his hand from the shedding of tribal blood, but by the customary unjust accusations brings a citizen into court and assassinates him, blotting out a human life, and with unhallowed tongue and lips that have tasted kindred blood, banishes and slays and hints at the abolition of debts and the partition of lands." -- Plato

"Until philosophers are kings, or the kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have rest from their evils—nor the human race, as I believe—and then only will this our State have a possibility of life and behold the light of day." -- Plato
 
pharmakos said:
100%. I know Christianity isn't popular here, and I know I've shared/said this before, but IMO both sides need Jesus. (Real Jesus, not the BS corrupted version of Christianity that most American "Christians" believe in)

"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

From the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5
Click to expand...

The moral teachings of the bible are great. I think everyone should follow them.

I can't speak for everyone else, but the reason I do not like Christianity is precisely because Christians do not follow the moral teachings of the bible, while simultaneously believing they are morally superior. That is the definition of insanity.

The bits about creationism and other fanciful wizard like powers I find silly, but I do not dislike someone for believing it, because it doesn't effect my life at all. People can believe whatever they want, as long as it does not negatively effect my life (such as misguided morals).

Modern American Christians have quite literally started ignoring what Jesus is quoted saying in the bible, and even started calling it "weak, woke nonsense".

onlysky.media

Christians: Jesus is too woke

It's not just that many Christians think liberals are weak—they now think Jesus is weak, his teachings too liberal.
onlysky.media onlysky.media
 
mal3volent said:
Easy for you to drop in every week or so and make a sarcastic remark. It's not even an attempt to present a point of view, thus shielding yourself from criticism. I am not cheerleading, I am expressing my opinions on a complex moral issue. You are free to do that as well. Or if you are not interested and just want to make cute comments, maybe try writing a blog or going to an open mic ?
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It is an attempt at a point of view however, the POV is clear, opinions were stated and cute comments were made.
So an unlimited ratio, got it.

swilow said:
Okay, fair call. My sentence there was unhelpfully flippant. But I stand by the sentiment. Palestinians are humans and can be expected to do better than massacring civilians. Millions of them don't do this. Modern leftist ideology just sees oppressed people responding like machines to oppression. So often, their agency is reduced to merely deterministic reflexes. I think this reductive approach diminishes their humanity and utterly distorts causality.
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No, the very very large majority of Palestinians aren't massacring civilians and would just like to live a normal life, what do you mean they need to do better.
It's the same as saying that all Russians are culpable for the deaths of Ukranians, right? I think that's nonsense. And it's the Americans here that are responsible for the deaths of all the Iraqis. What's the difference here?

Leftists what has been happening in the middle east for so many decades now and it's that when you start throwing bombs and really treating people like shit you'll get soo many more terrorists, this is just kind of proven. This is not reductive of anything, this is facing reality while thousands are dying and hundreds of thousands are displaced and have literally lost their homes. And it's about the regular Palestinian, where you & others are the ones diminishing their humanity.

It does not distort causality, what distorts causality is saying "these people are crap (Islam?), they need to do better".
 
Snafu in the Void said:
The moral teachings of the bible are great. I think everyone should follow them.

I can't speak for everyone else, but the reason I do not like Christianity is precisely because Christians do not follow the moral teachings of the bible, while simultaneously believing they are morally superior. That is the definition of insanity.

The bits about creationism and other fanciful wizard like powers I find silly, but I do not dislike someone for believing it, because it doesn't effect my life at all. People can believe whatever they want, as long as it does not negatively effect my life (such as misguided morals).

Modern American Christians have quite literally started ignoring what Jesus is quoted saying in the bible, and even started calling it "weak, woke nonsense".

onlysky.media

Christians: Jesus is too woke

It's not just that many Christians think liberals are weak—they now think Jesus is weak, his teachings too liberal.
onlysky.media onlysky.media
Click to expand...
💙

 
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