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Israel is under attack

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Buzz Lightbeer said:
Ok, so not a concentration camp, the numbers are still the numbers. They paint the picture of an incredibly tragic situation. 2 million people, stuck, likely for their entire lives and everything is being bombed.

This is not left or right, numbers are numbers and the facts are the facts. The very large majority cannot ever leave that tiny strip, no jobs and no prospects and they get bombed on the regular, and now entire regions get totally destroyed. They're blockaded by sea and have no airports, everything that gets into Gaza is either smuggled or generously let through by neighbors.

Is this wrong?

It doesn't correspond with the Holocaust concentration camp images, because Israel is not militarily occupying the Gaza strip, they've just built walls around it. Anyway, the terminology is not important to me.

I just guess that many Israel "supporters" think that the Palestinians in Gaza are culpable, and/or incapable which makes the punishment justified somehow. And the punishment is brutal.
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Everyone in this thread have recognized the horrible conditions you describe.

But personally I feel as though the root cause for most of the suffering in Gaza is Hamas, not Israel.

They don't want peace. The suffering of the Palestinian people is quite useful to them.
 
mal3volent said:
The United States received intelligence reports prior to 9/11 too. But you probably think George Bush orchestrated that as well? The fact is when you are the enemy of Islamist fascists and terrorists you receive reports like these daily. There was a failure for sure, that is obvious. But it's pretty sick to insinuate what you are insinuating.
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I think George Bush also knew and played along exactly as he was supposed to yes. Given all the information that's come out over the past 20+ years it would be quite gullible to assume Bush didn't know.
 
Mjäll said:
Death camp is a subset of concentration camp

Chill m8
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I'm chilled. Please go back to my original post and try to understand my objection. It was about language and our choice of words. What is and isn't acceptable in western society. These two guys who never even try to comprehend what I'm saying are attempting to gaslight me.

Mjäll said:
How do u care so much about team old testament desert fux
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Let me be clear: I think their religion is dumb too. But I respect them for at least modernizing their views on a whole host of issues and choosing to live in a relatively progressive democracy. I do not believe they intentionally target civilians as Hamas does. I believe they would choose peace over war if given the opportunity. But the Islamist jihadist terrorists will not give them that option.
 
assclass said:
In war, truth is often the first victim.

If you think one side is creating propaganda and the other is the unbiased source of truth, you might have succumb to propaganda and lies.
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This is true. I don't view either side as unbiased. I assume some amount of info the IDF puts out is false or misleading.

But I do not believe the two sides are comparable in this regard. One is much more guilty of propaganda and fake news than the other.
 
mal3volent said:
Everyone in this thread have recognized the horrible conditions you describe.

But personally I feel as though the root cause for most of the suffering in Gaza is Hamas, not Israel.

They don't want peace. The suffering of the Palestinian people is quite useful to them.
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Do you think it's logical groups like Hamas arise with 2 million people living in those conditions?

There'll be another Hamas if they kill them all and nothing fundamentally changes, yes?
Is there a goal other than dishing out punishment?

I'm just gauging if you agree with what Israel is doing right now to Gaza, and is planning on doing (re: ground invasion).
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Is that why all of you believe Israel that they aren't killing Palestinians indiscriminately? 😂

Loading…

www.nytimes.com
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because you don't understand the word indiscriminately or understand the concept of collateral damage.

I believe Israel is killing innocent people in Palestine. I just happen to believe that it is unintentional collateral damage because terrorists are using civilians as shields.


GET THIS THROUGH YOUR SIMPLE HEAD

Terrorists -> Attacked unarmed civilians, raped, kidnapped and murdered
Military -> Attacked militant fortifications in targeted strikes, unfortunately civilians are harmed in collateral damage, because the militants use civilians as human shields

So terrorists attack innocent people (to provoke a reaction from the military, which they can't win a fair fight with)
Then the IDF attacks the terrorists (as the terrorists PLANNED) and collateral damage kills some innocent people.


So imagine you are a weak little girl. You run up to your brother, and kick him in the balls.
When he chases you and is about to punch you in the face for hurting him, you say, "ceasefire" and call in your dad to give your brother the strap for punching you.

YOU CAUSED THE PROBLEM. YOU PLANNED AND CALCULATED THE VIOLENCE.
 
mal3volent said:
I'm chilled. Please go back to my original post and try to understand my objection. It was about language and our choice of words. What is and isn't acceptable in western society. These two guys who never even try to comprehend what I'm saying are attempting to gaslight me.



Let me be clear: I think their religion is dumb too. But I respect them for at least modernizing their views on a whole host of issues and choosing to live in a relatively progressive democracy. I do not believe they intentionally target civilians as Hamas does. I believe they would choose peace over war if given the opportunity. But the Islamist jihadist terrorists will not give them that option.
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I really believe you are a chill person in general, and a good one. So you can rest assured i'm not judging you.

But in this case you seem to respond with affect, bypassing the structure of logical implications. It is fact that nobody implied that nazi death camps were not concentration camps. The point of contention was whether gaza can be called one. I personally think the term applies. The jewish narrative holds no legitimate monopoly on terms like that.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
Do you think it's logical groups like Hamas arise with 2 million people living in those conditions?
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Two options:

A) Hamas has popular support and there are no innocent people there as they all support genocide.

B) Hamas does not have popular support and is controlling the area against the will of the people, but they are unable to rise up for fear of retaliation.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
There'll be another Hamas if they kill them all and nothing fundamentally changes, yes?
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The fundamental problem is jihadism. The Israelis also drove Christian Arabs off the land on 1948, and yet I don't recall one Christian suicide bomber. The grim reality is that until there is some sort of reformation in Islam, jihadism will always be a threat and everyone else will always be in conflict with it. There wasn't peace between Arabs and Jews before Israel came into existence, it would take something almost supernatural to create peace now. Israel have zero good options, but allowing a group of homicidal medieval savages to exist just beyond their borders is clearly worse than most. The Palestinians have one good option, and it would be to do everything they can to rid themselves of the tyrants who run their society. But with an ideology that rewards murder and hate, we're basically stuck with bombing them until they are too weak to retaliate.
 
mal3volent said:
But I do not believe the two sides are comparable in this regard. One is much more guilty of propaganda and fake news than the other.
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Different strategies, and different support networks, but both are running full-scale info ops world wide.

The fact that Canada, USA, EU, Australia etc nations have big protests going on for both sides, and the online space... both are doing it, ALOT.

Who is more effective, that's a different question, and I dont think there will be a clear answer for a while.
 
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