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Israel is under attack

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Now he's imagining that a condescending reaction emoticon is a valid substitute for making oneself clear.
 
i think that as this genocide rages on a few of the forum posters are starting to come round to the fact that, yes, it is a genocide and that, yes, genocides are wrong.

You can see it slowly happening with some of the people in the discussion here.

This is a good thing.
 
Mjäll said:
Were you not interested in the argument you started? May it be for the reason that you found yourself unable to follow-up on your kneejerk sentiment with actual arguments? Were you thinking that calling someone ignorant would suffice?
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I didn't start any discussions about Jews runnings the banks, foreign governments, or about how they were devious money lenders and that's why they were persecuted. I do not participate in such bullshit.

If you have something to ask of me that pertains to the topic of this thread I'd be more than happy to respond as I have for 200+ pages now. Trust me, I am not the one unable to support my positions. :)
 
The amount of discord created among secular westerners over this petty religious desert conflict is truly staggering.

Everyone here really should have the great common sense not to pick sides in this.
 
mal3volent said:
I didn't start any discussions about Jews runnings the banks, foreign governments, or about how they were devious money lenders and that's why they were persecuted. I do not participate in such bullshit.

If you have something to ask of me that pertains to the topic of this thread I'd be more than happy to respond as I have for 200+ pages now. Trust me, I am not the one unable to support my positions. :)
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Neither did i. I'm of course talking about your recent reply to my comment about the PR and peace-keeping failure of the state of Israel amid an otherwise quite favorable position for jews in the modern world since WW2. You told me i was historically ignorant, yet you can't provide any actual arguments or references while i have done so, admittedly not at a perfectly erudite level since i'm not a historian nor pretend to be.

Is your second paragraph intended to convey that the comment you replied to was off topic and thus not deserving of further response?
 
montel said:
All collateral damage? All perfectly acceptable?
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No one said it was acceptable.

You're being deliberately selective if you think Pegasus is anywhere close to the damage, and death, caused by the Echelon program (and other UK-USA covert programs). Again there's a reason why the British are the best, it's because you just don't hear about what they have been doing. We know about the dark history of the CIA, or Mossad, but virtually nothing about the operations of MI6.

Need I remind you that Assange is still in British high-security jail, and has been essentially ground into dust by the UK-USA alliance, over his leaking of information. And that Snowden is in exile for the same and to avoid the same fate. If it weren't for Snowden people like me would still be classed as a conspiracy theorist for suggesting the UK-USA spies on all of us, all of the time!!
 
montel said:
i think that as this genocide rages on a few of the forum posters are starting to come round to the fact that, yes, it is a genocide and that, yes, genocides are wrong.

You can see it slowly happening with some of the people in the discussion here.

This is a good thing.
Click to expand...

I see that Hamas wanted to genocide the Jews, and Israel responded. They're getting some fair criticism for how they've conducted themselves during the response. But much more unfair criticism.

There is no genocide of Palestinians. By your definition every war with civilian casualties is a genocide.
 
Mjäll said:
Neither did i. I'm of course talking about your recent reply to my comment about the PR and peace-keeping failure of the state of Israel amid an otherwise quite favorable position for jews in the modern world since WW2. You told me i was historically ignorant, yet you can't provide any actual arguments or references while i have done so, admittedly not at a perfectly erudite level since i'm not a historian nor pretend to be.

Is your second paragraph intended to convey that the comment you replied to was off topic and thus not deserving of further response?
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encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Pogroms

The term “pogrom” historically refers to violent attacks on Jews by local non-Jewish populations. Learn about pogroms before, during, and after the Holocaust.
encyclopedia.ushmm.org encyclopedia.ushmm.org
 
Show me a case similar to the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi attributable to the 5-eyes network?

Just one.

Your statement that they can "spy on anyone" is also not quite true. A friend of mine works intermittently with the police in the UK and was drafted in to work on a gun smuggling case. She was sent up to the MI6 offices (the floor where nobody's meant to go) and worked on translating the transcripts of phone conversations. She said they could hack just about anything..... except for WattsApp, believe it or not. This may explain why the Online Harms Act was targetting apps like WattsApp to create a backdoor for them to spy on.
 
mal3volent said:
encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Pogroms

The term “pogrom” historically refers to violent attacks on Jews by local non-Jewish populations. Learn about pogroms before, during, and after the Holocaust.
encyclopedia.ushmm.org encyclopedia.ushmm.org
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An antisemitic phenomenon and term from the russian cultural sphere, with one post-war example from 1946 in Poland. Is this your counter to my description of a favorable perspective on jews in the western world since WW2? Did you follow my argument where i explicitly acknowledged that the transition from widespread antisemitism to post-nazi victimhood and respect for jews may not have been instant? Do you understand that i'm mainly talking about the current situation, as a historical result of WW2?
 
mal3volent said:
I see that Hamas wanted to genocide the Jews, and Israel responded. They're getting some fair criticism for how they've conducted themselves during the response. But much more unfair criticism.

There is no genocide of Palestinians. By your definition every war with civilian casualties is a genocide.
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They have both been wanting to wipe each other out for almost 100 years now.

They are both as bad as each other. There is no greater good - just two genocidal bodies intent on the total destruction of their perceived enemies.
 
montel said:
They have both been wanting to wipe each other out for almost 100 years now.

They are both as bad as each other. There is no greater good - just two genocidal bodies intent on the total destruction of their perceived enemies.
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Incorrect. Israel has no desire to wipe out the Palestinians. False equivalence.

Saying there is no greater good is exactly the type of statement that drives me insane. Israel isn't perfect, the IDF certainly is far from perfect, but to say they are just as bad as Hamas is fucking unhinged.
 
montel said:
Show me a case similar to the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi attributable to the 5-eyes network?
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You don't seem to understand the point. Espionage is about not getting caught.
montel said:
Your statement that they can "spy on anyone" is also not quite true. A friend of mine works intermittently with the police in the UK and was drafted in to work on a gun smuggling case. She was sent up to the MI6 offices (the floor where nobody's meant to go) and worked on translating the transcripts of phone conversations. She said they could hack just about anything..... except for WattsApp, believe it or not. This may explain why the Online Harms Act was targetting apps like WattsApp to create a backdoor for them to spy on.
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Ever heard of compartmentalization? Come on man, use your head. The majority of people use WhatsApp. It is convenient to deny the ability to crack that system, because it keeps the net wider and more people using it. If everyone suddenly knew it was exposed, intelligence would lose a percentage of available targets and information. I'll bet you that it's cracked, just like every other system and hardware. They're not going to publicly let on and bother exposing that secret are they, just for some low-level gun smuggler being investigated by a low-level police operation.

Look at Echelon itself. It was denied, for decades. Even the existence of MI6 was denied officially until the 90's. That is how espionage works. You don't even show your poker face until absolutely forced to.
 
Mjäll said:
An antisemitic phenomenon and term from the russian cultural sphere, with one post-war example from 1946 in Poland. Is this your counter to my description of a favorable perspective on jews in the western world since WW2? Did you follow my argument where i explicitly acknowledged that the transition from widespread antisemitism to post-nazi victimhood and respect for jews may not have been instant? Do you understand that i'm mainly talking about the current situation, as a historical result of WW2?
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yeah just one example. In America you can look at the resurgence of groups like the KKK that lasted well into the 1990s. And other far right groups that followed. Today as we speak the far left and far right are coming together around Jew hatred. One side is honest about it, the other repeats centuries old tropes but replace "Jew" with "Zionist" and get away with it.
 
mal3volent said:
yeah just one example. In America you can look at the resurgence of groups like the KKK that lasted well into the 1990s. And other far right groups that followed. Today as we speak the far left and far right are coming together around Jew hatred. One side is honest about it, the other repeats centuries old tropes but replace "Jew" with "Zionist" and get away with it.
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Fringe movements, one of them entirely centered on Israel in its criticism.
 
Mjäll said:
Fringe movements, one of them entirely centered on Israel in its criticism.
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You said: "They were super accepted in Europe and America after WW2."

It was an ignorant statement, for all the reasons I mentioned and more. Please just accept it and move on rather than trying to squirm out of it.
 
Watch the goal posts move:

"They were super accepted in Europe and America after WW2."
"favorable perspective on jews in the western world since WW2"
"i'm mainly talking about the current situation, as a historical result of WW2"
 
Not all Jews are Zionists, and many I personally know don't agree with what is happening in Israel.
 
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