Is there any empathogen safe and EFFECTIVE to take on an SSRI??

[Mycophile]

Hey,

So, I take Prozac, an SSRI, and also Klonopin, and it's for this reason I've never done MDMA since I know that AT BEST the combo would make MDMA or MDA completely ineffective, and AT WORST I could get REALLY bad serotonin syndrome...possibly even fatal...though most likely I just wouldn't even feel the ecstasty...

Nevertheless, I've always wanted to try it, but I wouldn't dare, so I am wondering, are there any emphathogenic drugs that feel somewhat similar to MDMA or MDA that can actually be SAFELY combined with an SSRI like Prozac and also EFFECTIVELY get the user really high??

I'm kind of assuming that unfortunately there might just not be as these drugs seem to generally be serotonergic in nature, but I was just wondering.

Thanks

 

[Brendles]

Not really, no. Like you say, the risks are there, so if you really want to try it, and have your heart set on rolling, stop taking your medication until the drugs are out of your system entirely and then take the MDMA. The implied harm is NOT worth the risks you pose to yourself. Of course, you'll know better than anyone whether not taking your meds is advisable, personally, I'm on Trazodone, and I stop taking it well beforehand if I plan on doing anything, except marijuana. You can take the Klonopin on the comedown though, if you feel the need to.

 

[Mycophile]

Not really, no. Like you say, the risks are there, so if you really want to try it, and have your heart set on rolling, stop taking your medication until the drugs are out of your system entirely and then take the MDMA. The implied harm is NOT worth the risks you pose to yourself. Of course, you'll know better than anyone whether not taking your meds is advisable, personally, I'm on Trazodone, and I stop taking it well beforehand if I plan on doing anything, except marijuana. You can take the Klonopin on the comedown though, if you feel the need to.

I've been on Prozac for 20 years and I still need it so I can't get off it and even for the sake of argument I think it would take at least a year or more of not being on it for MDMA to even POTENTIALLY have ANY effect at all on me.

But aren't there other empathogenic drugs that feel kind of like MDMA or MDA that are different, like different RCs or analogs?

I thought it was a whole class of drugs with many different examples so I'd think there would be ONE with different effects on the brain that could be safe to combine and work with an SSRI??

If not, then I guess I'll probably never get to try an empathogen...oh well, I think I would probably like psychedelics better anyway.

 

[BlueBull]

You could try 2C-B/2C-I or LSD. They posses (at least for me and some other people) emphatogenic properties too, though it is a different kind of empathy than with MDMA, more of a mental connection because you are viewing things from the same perspective and this creates a bond. Do some research on combining these with prozac first though, as I have no idea about the safety profile of these combinations...

 

[Clocktower]

The problem here is that serotonin is fundamental to the action of empathogenic drugs, so an SSRI will always interfere with an empathogenic experience.

 

[Mycophile]

I wonder if in theory even if I DID ever get off Prozac if I could EVER safely and effectively use any empathogen or SSRI drug considering I've been on it everyday for 20 years.

Does anyone know if my serotonin receptors are PERMANENTLY altered by now so that even if I got off it and was off it for a year or more I could STILL get serotonin syndrome if I took certain drugs or at least MDMA wouldn't work??

Not that I'd EVER consider getting off Prozac to use recreational drugs, i am just curious if my brain has been permanently altered.

If it has been, while that sounds scary on the one hand, on the other it could be a good thing because I might have needed that considering that I needed the drug in the first place for various reasons.

 

[BlueBull]

Prozac will not cause serotonin syndrome in combination with MDMA, on the contrary, you will have much less serotonin in your synaptic cleft than compared to when you would ingest MDMA without an SSRI present so serotonin syndrome is actually much much much less likely than when you were just rolling on MDMA alone

Look here for proof.

A quote from the study

Substances that inhibit serotonin re-uptake are not likely to
increase serotonin to life-threatening levels if used with ecstasy
[23,26,31]. These substances include SSRI antidepressants (e.g.
citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine), the SNRI venlafaxine, tricyclic
antidepressants (e.g. clomipramine, imipramine), opioid analgesics
(e.g. tramadol, dextromethorphan) and antihistamines (e.g. chlor
pheniramine, brompheniramine). These drugs differ from other
serotonergic drugs in that they compete with MDMA at the
serotonin receptor site and, therefore, diminish the effects of
MDMA [23,31].
Controlled studies have found that the physiological and
subjective effects of ecstasy are substantially reduced in participants
given citalopram [32,33]. Results from animal experiments also
show that some SSRIs block the MDMA-induced release of
serotonin [31,34-36]. Interestingly, additional evidence from
animal models suggests that some SSRIs may protect against the
long-lasting neurotoxic effects of MDMA [36-38]. Whether this is
the case in humans is yet to be determined.

Logically I would think after a long time you will be able to roll but I'm completely unsure, this is just a guess. I would ask a professional if I were you...

Never combine MAOI anti-depressants with MDMA by the way. That combination can and very often will cause serotonin syndrome

*edit* I've just looked around a bit and one thing strikes me: I can't seem to find any research done on the effects of chronic SSRI treatment. That is actually quite disturbing. I would've thought such a thing would be thoroughly researched by now but apparently it isn't. Only thing I could find: Click . So perhaps 5-HTP can help, but I'm not going to advise this as I am not a doctor

 

[JWills20]

Does anyone know if my serotonin receptors are PERMANENTLY altered by now so that even if I got off it and was off it for a year or more I could STILL get serotonin syndrome if I took certain drugs or at least MDMA wouldn't work??

Nobody knows that question. Chances are after 20 years of daily usage you'd struggle to ever fully roll yeah. It would probably take an incredibly long abstinence/not be possible. Maybe after 3-4 years of not taking them... I don't know really I'm guessing.

As for serotonin syndrome, that's not going to happen, you just won't get high. Serotonin syndrome is where your brain is overloaded with far too much serotonin, whereas not experiencing anything is the opposite - barely any serotonin release.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Try mushrooms.

Also, give kratom a try. It works on a completely different system than MDMA (opioid) yet produces very similar empathetic effects. When my tolerance to kratom was low, a combo of ~2g mushrooms and kratom was on-par with my experiences with MDA. Loads of empathy, ridiculously awesome body high, great visuals, music was orgasmic, lots of energy, all from a completely natural and safe combo. I've never seen any evidence that either psilocybin or kratom has any interaction with SSRI's.

 

[InterestingFACT]

5-meo-mipt is a psylocin analogue that is reported to feel remarkably like rolling--it's not even really a hallucinogen except at very high doses, it just induces a body high.

Anecdotally, I do think it's qualitatively more similar to descriptions I've heard of MDMA than it is to mushrooms themselves. However, as I haven't actually tried MDMA, you're going to have to treat my words with a grain of salt.

In any case, it's an agonist at 5ht1 and 5ht2b, I believe. As a direct agonist, rather than a releaser of serotonin, I think it will have a much better chance of having substantial effects than a more traditional empathogen. It also doesn't directly increase the amount of serotonin at the synapse, so I can't see there being any substantial risk of serotonin syndrome.

It's possible that some other serotonin releasers might work for you, but I'm pretty sure that this, or at least something similar to this, is likely to be your best option.

 

[Mycophile]

Try mushrooms.

Also, give kratom a try. It works on a completely different system than MDMA (opioid) yet produces very similar empathetic effects. When my tolerance to kratom was low, a combo of ~2g mushrooms and kratom was on-par with my experiences with MDA. Loads of empathy, ridiculously awesome body high, great visuals, music was orgasmic, lots of energy, all from a completely natural and safe combo. I've never seen any evidence that either psilocybin or kratom has any interaction with SSRI's.

I've taken and love both Shrooms and Kratom, though I haven't yet gotten the chance to try them at the same time.

I wish I had a source for shrooms but they aren't so easy for me to come by.

 

[BlueBull]

I've taken and love both Shrooms and Kratom, though I haven't yet gotten the chance to try them at the same time.

I wish I had a source for shrooms but they aren't so easy for me to come by.

Don't they grow in nature in your country? We used to go out to cow fields an collect them as they grow over there on cow dung (cubensis). However you have to have someone with you that really really knows what he's/she's doing because there are some look alikes that are poisenous

 

[neurotic]

like it was said before, the empathogenic effects (at least from the drugs we know, RCs included) come from their action on serotonin, and by some reason SSRIs fucking block these effects. so it's not possible to while on SSRIs/lingering effects from SSRIs have some serotonergic empathogenia (just invented that term)...

do you really need the Prozac? seriously... i'm on the side that thinks SSRIs are just shit, so if you wanna roll, just fucking drop them, they suck. it sure is gonna take some time (we can't know the exact amount though, unfortunately) for you to fully roll again though.

also, on a little side note... do anyone with a good understanding of neuropsicopharmacology wtv could say why SSRIs will block the effects from empathogenics? i mean, may be (layman's guess) serotonin itself has more affinity to 5HT1A than MDMA & the likes so when there is too much serotonin MDMA is not able to bind there and cause that oxytocin release? even though there'd still be stimulation from DA/NE increase. i took ecstasy once while just off of Prozac and it did made me feel stimulated just like coke, but no empathogenia...

 

[InterestingFACT]

like it was said before, the empathogenic effects (at least from the drugs we know, RCs included) come from their action on serotonin, and by some reason SSRIs fucking block these effects. so it's not possible to while on SSRIs/lingering effects from SSRIs have some serotonergic empathogenia (just invented that term)...

do you really need the Prozac? seriously... i'm on the side that thinks SSRIs are just shit, so if you wanna roll, just fucking drop them, they suck. it sure is gonna take some time (we can't know the exact amount though, unfortunately) for you to fully roll again though.

also, on a little side note... do anyone with a good understanding of neuropsicopharmacology wtv could say why SSRIs will block the effects from empathogenics? i mean, may be (layman's guess) serotonin itself has more affinity to 5HT1A than MDMA & the likes so when there is too much serotonin MDMA is not able to bind there and cause that oxytocin release? even though there'd still be stimulation from DA/NE increase. i took ecstasy once while just off of Prozac and it did made me feel stimulated just like coke, but no empathogenia...

MDMA is a dopamine and serotonin releaser. SSRIs block SERT. This is going to affect your roll through two mechanisms: 1. After taking an SSRI chronically you have a serotonin tolerance--essentially your body has adjusted to higher levels of serotonin in the synapse and so the increases caused by MDMA aren't as significant a change from the "new baseline" created by the SSRI. 2. SSRIs are going to be competing with the MDMA itself to bind to SERT. While the SSRIs simply block SERT, MDMA reverses SERT so that it spews more serotonin into the synapse. Because the SSRIs are bound to SERT, less MDMA is able to bind and have an effect.

Because of this, the portion of MDMA's effects caused by its serotonergic activity is largely diminished, leaving only the dopaminergic (speedy, amphetamine-like) effects.

The solution to this, like I said earlier in this thread, is to use a serotonin agonist rather than a serotonin releaser. I suggested 5-meo-mipt.

 

[Mycophile]

Don't they grow in nature in your country? We used to go out to cow fields an collect them as they grow over there on cow dung (cubensis). However you have to have someone with you that really really knows what he's/she's doing because there are some look alikes that are poisenous

Yeah and I don't know anyone who really knows what they are doing and I'd be too afraid that I'd accidentally eat a posionous one.

If I wasn't I'd be picking them all the time.

 

[Mycophile]

like it was said before, the empathogenic effects (at least from the drugs we know, RCs included) come from their action on serotonin, and by some reason SSRIs fucking block these effects. so it's not possible to while on SSRIs/lingering effects from SSRIs have some serotonergic empathogenia (just invented that term)...

do you really need the Prozac? seriously... i'm on the side that thinks SSRIs are just shit, so if you wanna roll, just fucking drop them, they suck. it sure is gonna take some time (we can't know the exact amount though, unfortunately) for you to fully roll again though.

also, on a little side note... do anyone with a good understanding of neuropsicopharmacology wtv could say why SSRIs will block the effects from empathogenics? i mean, may be (layman's guess) serotonin itself has more affinity to 5HT1A than MDMA & the likes so when there is too much serotonin MDMA is not able to bind there and cause that oxytocin release? even though there'd still be stimulation from DA/NE increase. i took ecstasy once while just off of Prozac and it did made me feel stimulated just like coke, but no empathogenia...

Yes I really need them, they have helped with all sorts of issues and you are most definitely wrong if you think they are "just shit" and "they suck" if by that you mean that they can't and don't help people.

They may have side effects, but they help a lot of people, myself included, and they get a bad rap by those who assume that they can't possibly be helpful.

It isn't even REMOTELY worth it to get off Prozac to get ecstasy and I'd never even consider it for that reason.

I was just curious.

YOU PERSONALLY may not like Prozac, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help some people.

 

[neurotic]

(...)

The solution to this, like I said earlier in this thread, is to use a serotonin agonist rather than a serotonin releaser. I suggested 5-meo-mipt.

MDMA and other empathogenics ARE serotonin agonists. specifically at the 5HT2A receptor (which are responsible for the mild psychedelia) and specially at the 5HT1A receptor, which is responsible for the oxytocin release that causes the empathogenia.

raised serotonin levels do not cause empathogenia. cocaine, amphetamines and most stimulants raise serotonin levels and do not cause it. also it can't just be any serotonin agonist... there is a multitude of serotonin receptors which have nothing to do with what we want. if you want an MDMA-like experience you'd need some stim for DA/NE increase plus 5HT1A agonism which will cause the empathogenia. i'm too lazy to look for the papers but if you do a little search i'm pretty sure you can confirm that for yourself.

(...)
YOU PERSONALLY may not like Prozac, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help some people.

sorry bro i didn't mean to be rude/attack you, but my guess is, if you keep taking SSRIs, you won't be able to roll. you can try though...

 

[driven2distraction]

Interesting Fact I tried to send a response via private msg but your mailbox is full!

 

[InterestingFACT]

MDMA and other empathogenics ARE serotonin agonists. specifically at the 5HT2A receptor (which are responsible for the mild psychedelia) and specially at the 5HT1A receptor, which is responsible for the oxytocin release that causes the empathogenia.

raised serotonin levels do not cause empathogenia. cocaine, amphetamines and most stimulants raise serotonin levels and do not cause it. also it can't just be any serotonin agonist... there is a multitude of serotonin receptors which have nothing to do with what we want. if you want an MDMA-like experience you'd need some stim for DA/NE increase plus 5HT1A agonism which will cause the empathogenia. i'm too lazy to look for the papers but if you do a little search i'm pretty sure you can confirm that for yourself.



sorry bro i didn't mean to be rude/attack you, but my guess is, if you keep taking SSRIs, you won't be able to roll. you can try though...

MDMA is a light agonist at 5ht2a and 5ht1a. 5-meo-mipt is a much stronger agonist at 5ht1a and 5ht2a. You'll note that most people can trip while on SSRIs, with a mild increase (rule of thumb is 130%, but it varies) in dosage, while people generally can't roll on SSRIs. This is because of the nature of the difference between MDMA's effects and the effects of a direct agonist.

Mycophile, if you don't experience effects from 5-meo-mipt at a normal dosage (4-7mg) you can increase your dosage until you feel effects, without risk of harm. However, as neurotic mentioned, in order to most closely mimic the effects of MDMA itself you would likely want to add a dopaminergic stimulant into the mix. This being said, you will only disappoint yourself if you set out to mimic one drug with another. 5-meo-mipt will be its own experience, however it will be an experience that is comparable, yet much more plausibly had while on SSRIs than an MDMA experience.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Interesting Fact I tried to send a response via private msg but your mailbox is full!

I cleared my mailbox, however I am apparently unable to respond for another 180 minutes. I'm not sure why that is. I can't imagine anything too horrible happening from taking 2-fma for just 36 days. The only negative report we've seen that I'm aware of was after 6 months use. (Sorry for the off-topic)