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Is the unexamined life really a lesser one?

MyDoorsAreOpen

MyDoorsAreOpen

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I forget which famous dead guy first said something praising "the examined life", but he basically implied that people who think deeply and critically about themselves, their lives, and their place in the big picture will automatically lead lives that are fuller, richer, and more worthwhile to live. (I really can't be skewered to look up the exact quote or author right now.)

If my interpretation is correct, then I take issue with this statement. And this is coming from someone who has chosen to examine his life a lot, and doesn't regret having done so. Why must intellectual curiosity be everybody's cup of joe? This is like people who spontaneously make art and take joy in living life artfully feeling better than people for whom art plays a much more minor role in their lives. In either case (and many more), I don't think it's possible to say that the latter person's life is inherently impoverished, that their experience of the world is necessarily of a lesser quality. It's just a difference is people's ways of engaging with and breaking down the world they encounter around them.

I like to think, don't get me wrong. I've probably burned thousands of calories in a day just on thinking, many times. But there are definitely times and situations that call for no thinking, I've found. Going to a concert full of impassioned fellow fans of an artist that really moves you is one that comes to mind off the top of my head -- it's a pure sensory-emotional experience, and the inner dialogue just tends to fall quiet for the duration of the experience. Cardiovascular workouts to strongly motivational music can have this effect too. I'll testify to thinking not being much help in meditation either. What would a strong proponent of the examined life say are the limits beyond which examination becomes unhelpful excess?
 
the benefit to thoughtless states such as dancing or meditation is unrelated to the question posed by the famous dead guy. one can both be reflective and introverted and make the time for other endeavours which require thoughtless states.

i object to the view on another level. to pursue the meanings as we do, is to commit to a futile task. it is mental masturbation, only useful in reinterpretations through the arts or advancing philosophy itself. i would counterargue that unless one is a fine and deep artist or professional philosopher, a life is more impoverished by this endeavour. i think understanding life and living life are two pursuits which are actually in direct conflict.
 
I think you might be thinking about "The unexamined life is not worth living." ~Socrates

i object to the view on another level. to pursue the meanings as we do, is to commit to a futile task. it is mental masturbation, only useful in reinterpretations through the arts or advancing philosophy itself. i would counterargue that unless one is a fine and deep artist or professional philosopher, a life is more impoverished by this endeavour. i think understanding life and living life are two pursuits which are actually in direct conflict.
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I have to disagree with you there buddy. Why must you be a "professional philosopher" or a deep artist to find meaning in the pursuit of meaning? For me it is the seeking of knowledge that is most satisfying not the actual gaining of it.

It is the goal of self perfection. Perfection is impossible to attain. And yet through that we gain so much more than what perfection offers. And that is self improvement. Because through the impossible act of trying to become perfect you are actually becoming all the better for it. And for me examining ones life is self improvement.

An ignorant man can be happy being ignorant I am not denying that. But imagine where we would be if not for that little voice in our heads that begs the question "Why?". It may ultimately be pointless of course. But human beings are masters of the pointless. And in that pointlessness I believe is humanities greatest strength.
 
yeah i share this you feel, however i think i could have been far more productive in my self betterment if i had not wasted so much time and specialised in a single, attainable field. know what i mean?

unless of course i use all this experience in the futile to create art with one day... who knows. ...
 
yeah i share this you feel, however i think i could have been far more productive in my self betterment if i had not wasted so much time and specialised in a single, attainable field. know what i mean?
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I kind of get what you are saying, wouldn't mind if you elaborated a little though lol.

Although (if I interpreted what you said correctly) there is something to be said about focusing your energies on one thing and being great at it. I hate to go all Chinese and "Confucius say" on you but do you know what Gung Fu means in Chinese? It doesn't mean martial arts or fighting or whatever. It simply means "hard work" or "effort". In that sense anything can be Gung Fu. Whether it be performing martial arts or making music and art, to working a 9 to 5 everyday or plowing a field and harvesting crops. It is finding meaning in the ever day, in the mundane and even in the banal.
 
L2R said:
i think understanding life and living life are two pursuits which are actually in direct conflict.
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Experiencing life often leads to empathy; although imagination, compassion, and open mind can compensate for a lack of experience in some areas of life. Some people can live life routinely, with little introspection or reflection or discipline, thus repeating mistakes and maintaining unwanted consequences. Thinking critically about one's life is not necessarily an intellectual pursuit alone, but can also be a spiritual one.

Life imo is probably best lived as an experience interspersed with reflections when one encounters some kind of suffering. The reflection would concentrate on how to avoid a certain suffering and on how to attain a certain satisfaction or goal. Maturity and/or evolution may not just "happen" for some and may need to be something that one defines and analyses based upon his/her life experience.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
I forget which famous dead guy first said something praising "the examined life", but he basically implied that people who think deeply and critically about themselves, their lives, and their place in the big picture will automatically lead lives that are fuller, richer, and more worthwhile to live. (I really can't be skewered to look up the exact quote or author right now.)

If my interpretation is correct, then I take issue with this statement. And this is coming from someone who has chosen to examine his life a lot, and doesn't regret having done so. Why must intellectual curiosity be everybody's cup of joe? This is like people who spontaneously make art and take joy in living life artfully feeling better than people for whom art plays a much more minor role in their lives. In either case (and many more), I don't think it's possible to say that the latter person's life is inherently impoverished, that their experience of the world is necessarily of a lesser quality. It's just a difference is people's ways of engaging with and breaking down the world they encounter around them.

I like to think, don't get me wrong. I've probably burned thousands of calories in a day just on thinking, many times. But there are definitely times and situations that call for no thinking, I've found. Going to a concert full of impassioned fellow fans of an artist that really moves you is one that comes to mind off the top of my head -- it's a pure sensory-emotional experience, and the inner dialogue just tends to fall quiet for the duration of the experience. Cardiovascular workouts to strongly motivational music can have this effect too. I'll testify to thinking not being much help in meditation either. What would a strong proponent of the examined life say are the limits beyond which examination becomes unhelpful excess?
Click to expand...

edit: nevermind I misunderstood. I'll be honest MDAO, it's frustrating to try and reply to your random thoughts-du-jour threads because they start off with a clear point then as you try and explain it your thoughts on the matter grow more confusing.
 
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... Yes I believe in investigating the unexamend life.

But for why ??

In later life this is natural it seems but to do so in your youth, or at any point with the intention of manifesting for yourself is certainly something to be done. Setting goals as high as can be imagined, thinking small as in remaining humble sane and organized can help with not feeling disappointed in less then you had hoped for, which will be more then if left unexamend...And if anything gaining a sense of humor towards your own short comings is a definite gain.

"what it look like
what it feel like
It ain't easy."
-Snoop Dog
 
To keep it brief, I agree with Socrates / Plato. A major part of life is--IMO--self-definition, and the process of self-examination is crucial to this definition. Besides, I think everyone of at least average intelligence examines their life, even if they don't label it as such; you want to look at a wholly unexamined life, watch a school of fish, flock of birds, or a troop of baboons. It becomes detrimental only when it reaches the state of paralysis by analysis.
 
my logic is treating the resources available to a single individual life as zero sum. anything spent on deadends takes away from actually achievable goals.

and besides, everyone knows the pinnacle of human experience is to be politically active. :p
 
I do agree with Socrates on "the unexamined life..." quote. I certainly think one must serious reflect about themselves throughout their life. I do not really know if I could perscribe a method of self reflection to anyone because we all self reflect in different ways. Self reflection for one person could very well be different for me.

Don't confuse self reflection with the terms guilt or anxiety. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they are different terms expressing different things. If you are having trouble dealing with your past thats negatively affecting your mental health, then that is a very negative form of self reflection. If you don't have enough confidence in yourself and constantly questioning your own abilities, that anxiety is a bad form of self reflection. For self reflection to be positive you have to be able to move on and not dwell on the past.
 
L2R said:
my logic is treating the resources available to a single individual life as zero sum. anything spent on deadends takes away from actually achievable goals.

and besides, everyone knows the pinnacle of human experience is to be politically active. :p
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lol

What isn't politics, even in self reflection and wordly or universal exploration, if with the intent of betterment for the self, you can not break to rebuild what is providing too much support at a given time.

Probably to best know and trust the self is to know ones limits.
;)


_________
im still breaking down btw
 
^i'd take control and responsibility if i wasn't so elitist and not allowing me into the clique inside my head. i'm such a bitch. =D
 
thujone said:
edit: nevermind I misunderstood. I'll be honest MDAO, it's frustrating to try and reply to your random thoughts-du-jour threads because they start off with a clear point then as you try and explain it your thoughts on the matter grow more confusing.
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I don't recall you asking me to clarify anything. I'd understand this comment if you'd spent many posts trying to engage me, and I'd just stonewalled you or dodged everything you asked me. But to hear this as your first comment to me... wow. Um... I guess you're welcome to put me on ignore if the way I write and think really chafes you. 8)

If anyone else found my post incoherent, kindly break it to me and I'll try to rephrase it.
 
^lol I don't get what that guys deal is.

I find you to be perfectly coherent. I think he might be confusing you with someone else.
 
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