Benzos Is pyrazolam physically addictive ?

[Kizaru]

Hi i was wondering if pyrazolam in lower doses ranging from 0.5 to 1 mg ain't physically addictive? I was reading a study indicating benzo binding affinity to the a1 (which causes sedation ) a2 and a3 subunits saying that tolerance and withdrawal do not occure at the a2 and a3 binding sites and that most withdrawal come from the sedative a1 subunit . Pyrazolam mostly binds to the a2 and a3 sites which makes pyrazolam alot less problematic for tolerance and withdrawal .

However early preclinical data suggest that α2/α3 subtype selective compounds neither lead to tolerance nor withdrawal symptoms [9].

Source : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4014019/

So why the hell is pyrazolam an rc and not used medically ? Higher doses of pyrazolam still has sedative effect and binds to the a1 , so i am strictly talking about the lower dose range .

Anyway i thought it was maby interesting .

 

[Endopharm]

Its interesting, but I'd like to see more studies.

Also, when we talk about addiction and withdrawal, remember it's not all binding affinity causing this. We rarely factor in other variables caused when you ingest medications.

Think nicotine, just as an easy example. Yes there is binding but it's also fluctuating neurotransmitters which are fluctuating hormones that are effecting blood glucose which is then effecting things like leptin/ghrelin which effects appetite that in turns again effects neurotransmitters, hormones etc.

That's not even including the "act" of consumption.

These compounds are all incredibly complicated to the point most of what is taught is theory as it's impossible today to test all of the variables including dose, method of ingestion, age, sex, nationality etc.

But I love what you said, indeed I'd 100% agree on its use if these studies were continued and proven to be a better, more effective medicine with less side effects.

Really, really like what you stated there.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

To me any drug that ends in “lam/olam/alam is addictive regardless to dose size, less just wont be as severe,
I could be totally wrong though

 

[cosmic charlie]

It's a Benzodiazapine, so I would say yes.

In those lower dosages the withdrawals probably won't be that severed tho. But I definitely wouldn't use it daily with the mindset that there isn't going to be any physical/mental repercussions.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Hi i was wondering if pyrazolam in lower doses ranging from 0.5 to 1 mg ain't physically addictive? I was reading a study indicating benzo binding affinity to the a1 (which causes sedation ) a2 and a3 subunits saying that tolerance and withdrawal do not occure at the a2 and a3 binding sites and that most withdrawal come from the sedative a1 subunit . Pyrazolam mostly binds to the a2 and a3 sites which makes pyrazolam alot less problematic for tolerance and withdrawal .

However early preclinical data suggest that α2/α3 subtype selective compounds neither lead to tolerance nor withdrawal symptoms [9].

Source : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4014019/

So why the hell is pyrazolam an rc and not used medically ? Higher doses of pyrazolam still has sedative effect and binds to the a1 , so i am strictly talking about the lower dose range .

Anyway i thought it was maby interesting .

Yes. All benzo's are. Very much so. As in the withdrawal is awful and you can have seizures (although doubtful in low doses).

 

[emkee_reinvented]

To me any drug that ends in “lam/olam/alam is addictive regardless to dose size, less just wont be as severe,
I could be totally wrong though

Don't forget the rare but excisting zam. Clobazam.

To me they all seem addicting. Maybe Clobazam and Pyrazolam in a low dosage are less so. But I doubt they are free of this annoying property, addiction. At 3 mg Pyrazolam gives a typical Benzo feeling. Maybe even better then some of the prescription ones.

 

[Kizaru]

To me any drug that ends in “lam/olam/alam is addictive regardless to dose size, less just wont be as severe,
I could be totally wrong though

Yeah totally agree

 

[Kizaru]

Yes. All benzo's are. Very much so. As in the withdrawal is awful and you can have seizures (although doubtful in low doses).

Yeah luckely i have never experienced benzo dependancy . I am however experienced with full blown ghb withdrawal which can even be worse the first 24 hours . But luckely ghb is an easy ride if you have baclofen and pregalabine and only last a couple of days to 2 weeks max . But benzo addiction and months or even years of terror seems horrible .

 

[Kizaru]

Don't forget the rare but excisting zam. Clobazam.

To me they all seem addicting. Maybe Clobazam and Pyrazolam in a low dosage are less so. But I doubt they are free of this annoying property, addiction. At 3 mg Pyrazolam gives a typical Benzo feeling. Maybe even better then some of the prescription ones.

Yeah you are absolutely correct , i find pyrazolam actually having best recreational effect from 4/6 mg range which is a high dose for pyrazolam . But the last months i have used quite alot of them and never experienced withdrawal from them . I also used the rc bromazolam which works great but only after 3 days of use i had nightmares the 4th day without them . So i rlly do feel like pyrazolam is more forgivable .

 

[Kizaru]

Its interesting, but I'd like to see more studies.

Also, when we talk about addiction and withdrawal, remember it's not all binding affinity causing this. We rarely factor in other variables caused when you ingest medications.

Think nicotine, just as an easy example. Yes there is binding but it's also fluctuating neurotransmitters which are fluctuating hormones that are effecting blood glucose which is then effecting things like leptin/ghrelin which effects appetite that in turns again effects neurotransmitters, hormones etc.

That's not even including the "act" of consumption.

These compounds are all incredibly complicated to the point most of what is taught is theory as it's impossible today to test all of the variables including dose, method of ingestion, age, sex, nationality etc.

But I love what you said, indeed I'd 100% agree on its use if these studies were continued and proven to be a better, more effective medicine with less side effects.

Really, really like what you stated there.

Thanks for your insight ! Never even thought about all of that . You think lyrica/pregalabine could help people weaning of benzo's ? I use them for ghb withdrawal and works great . Now i know the horror stories of lyrica wd but for me it seems lyrica is way less dependent then benzo's are . Never even noticed any rebound from them and have used quite alot . Also there is a benzo antogonist called flumazanil or something , its also discussed in the link i posted . Because it blocks the effect of benzo's i thought maby they can block withdrawal and the studie does seem to indicate that .

 

[Kizaru]

Its interesting, but I'd like to see more studies.

Also, when we talk about addiction and withdrawal, remember it's not all binding affinity causing this. We rarely factor in other variables caused when you ingest medications.

Think nicotine, just as an easy example. Yes there is binding but it's also fluctuating neurotransmitters which are fluctuating hormones that are effecting blood glucose which is then effecting things like leptin/ghrelin which effects appetite that in turns again effects neurotransmitters, hormones etc.

That's not even including the "act" of consumption.

These compounds are all incredibly complicated to the point most of what is taught is theory as it's impossible today to test all of the variables including dose, method of ingestion, age, sex, nationality etc.

But I love what you said, indeed I'd 100% agree on its use if these studies were continued and proven to be a better, more effective medicine with less side effects.

Really, really like what you stated there.

Most of these rc where actually designed for use but didnt pass the trials for fda approvement . I think because so much meds are created not all become fda approved . I honestly think pyrazolam could be a less problematic benzo for anxiety use compared to Xanax (alprazolam) molecule wise pyrazolam comes close to alpra .

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Yeah luckely i have never experienced benzo dependancy . I am however experienced with full blown ghb withdrawal which can even be worse the first 24 hours . But luckely ghb is an easy ride if you have baclofen and pregalabine and only last a couple of days to 2 weeks max . But benzo addiction and months or even years of terror seems horrible .

Yeah. Using a benzo to help get through a few days of ghb withdrawal is totally fine, but you absolutely do not want a dependency. That won't happen in a few days or a week, though.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Don't forget the rare but excisting zam. Clobazam.

To me they all seem addicting. Maybe Clobazam and Pyrazolam in a low dosage are less so. But I doubt they are free of this annoying property, addiction. At 3 mg Pyrazolam gives a typical Benzo feeling. Maybe even better then some of the prescription ones.

also "pam"...diazepam, clonazepam, lorazepam etc

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Its interesting, but I'd like to see more studies.

Also, when we talk about addiction and withdrawal, remember it's not all binding affinity causing this. We rarely factor in other variables caused when you ingest medications.

Think nicotine, just as an easy example. Yes there is binding but it's also fluctuating neurotransmitters which are fluctuating hormones that are effecting blood glucose which is then effecting things like leptin/ghrelin which effects appetite that in turns again effects neurotransmitters, hormones etc.

That's not even including the "act" of consumption.

These compounds are all incredibly complicated to the point most of what is taught is theory as it's impossible today to test all of the variables including dose, method of ingestion, age, sex, nationality etc.

But I love what you said, indeed I'd 100% agree on its use if these studies were continued and proven to be a better, more effective medicine with less side effects.

Really, really like what you stated there.

Good point with nicotine. In fact, one of the main reasons NRT fails for some people is the MAOI effects of smoking come from other substances in the tobacco (another reason smoking isn't JUST about the nicotinergic receptors).

 

[Bleaney]

As others have said all benzos are addictive.

However, Etizolam, which is not strictly a benzodiazepine, but rather a thienodiazepine, is said to have a more forgiving tolerance and dependence profile than traditional benzos. It is also more effective than many benzos for anxiety - 6 times more effective per dose compared to diazepam for example.

Pyrazolam was similar to Etiz in that it was extremely good for anxiety and low on the hypnotic effects. It was a marvellous benzo in that regard when it was legally avaialable as an RC for way too short a time. How I wish I'd purchased a huge quantity of them, a stockpile to last for years, and also wish I had the self discipline to ration my use at that time. That would have been too tall an order for me back then. Maybe I could now manage the self control required to do that. Irrelevant anyway, seeing as it is no longer available.

Not sure about availabilty on DNM?

 

[Endopharm]

Pregabalin, gabapentin can help benzo withdrawal, or cause other issues...

It's all variables. That's why (even though I've abused substances too), offer my opinions but also state that it may be different for you. (I was an RNCP, later an organic chemist then chemist, so I tend to approach things in a more scientific way.

All we are offering here are opinions, none of what we say is 100% scientific fact.

Remember this, addiction is wired in humans. Its addiction that keeps us alive. Everything we do is based entirely on addiction, even spirituality.

Substance abuse is, in my opinion, the more proper way to talk or offer opinions about.

With that said, "once an addict, always an addict", is scientifically true, and absolutely false at the same time.

 

[Kizaru]

Pregabalin, gabapentin can help benzo withdrawal, or cause other issues...

It's all variables. That's why (even though I've abused substances too), offer my opinions but also state that it may be different for you. (I was an RNCP, later an organic chemist then chemist, so I tend to approach things in a more scientific way.

All we are offering here are opinions, none of what we say is 100% scientific fact.

Remember this, addiction is wired in humans. Its addiction that keeps us alive. Everything we do is based entirely on addiction, even spirituality.

Substance abuse is, in my opinion, the more proper way to talk or offer opinions about.

With that said, "once an addict, always an addict", is scientifically true, and absolutely false at the same time.

Yeah i absolutely agree

 

[Kizaru]

As others have said all benzos are addictive.

However, Etizolam, which is not strictly a benzodiazepine, but rather a thienodiazepine, is said to have a more forgiving tolerance and dependence profile than traditional benzos. It is also more effective than many benzos for anxiety - 6 times more effective per dose compared to diazepam for example.

Pyrazolam was similar to Etiz in that it was extremely good for anxiety and low on the hypnotic effects. It was a marvellous benzo in that regard when it was legally avaialable as an RC for way too short a time. How I wish I'd purchased a huge quantity of them, a stockpile to last for years, and also wish I had the self discipline to ration my use at that time. That would have been too tall an order for me back then. Maybe I could now manage the self control required to do that. Irrelevant anyway, seeing as it is no longer available.

Not sure about availabilty on DNM?

Its fully available here in Holland unlike etizolam which is banned almost everywhere . Man you can order shit loads of legal vendors here even when your 10 years old . Pretty crazy actually ranging from broma to pyra etc . I hope the pyraz stays for a while .

 

[Kizaru]

As others have said all benzos are addictive.

However, Etizolam, which is not strictly a benzodiazepine, but rather a thienodiazepine, is said to have a more forgiving tolerance and dependence profile than traditional benzos. It is also more effective than many benzos for anxiety - 6 times more effective per dose compared to diazepam for example.

Pyrazolam was similar to Etiz in that it was extremely good for anxiety and low on the hypnotic effects. It was a marvellous benzo in that regard when it was legally avaialable as an RC for way too short a time. How I wish I'd purchased a huge quantity of them, a stockpile to last for years, and also wish I had the self discipline to ration my use at that time. That would have been too tall an order for me back then. Maybe I could now manage the self control required to do that. Irrelevant anyway, seeing as it is no longer available.

Not sure about availabilty on DNM?

Isnt alprazolam also a thienodiazepine benzo though ?

 

[Mjäll]

As others have said all benzos are addictive.

However, Etizolam, which is not strictly a benzodiazepine, but rather a thienodiazepine, is said to have a more forgiving tolerance and dependence profile than traditional benzos. It is also more effective than many benzos for anxiety - 6 times more effective per dose compared to diazepam for example.

Pyrazolam was similar to Etiz in that it was extremely good for anxiety and low on the hypnotic effects. It was a marvellous benzo in that regard when it was legally avaialable as an RC for way too short a time. How I wish I'd purchased a huge quantity of them, a stockpile to last for years, and also wish I had the self discipline to ration my use at that time. That would have been too tall an order for me back then. Maybe I could now manage the self control required to do that. Irrelevant anyway, seeing as it is no longer available.

Not sure about availabilty on DNM?

It says on wikipedia that etizolam exhibits reverse tolerance with respect to the anxiolytic effects. Very interesting, although anxiolysis is of course not the same as euphoria.

Sadly only got to try it once. If i had access to etizolam or other thienodiazepine i would be eager to explore it because it seems interesting unlike benzos.

That one time i had etizolam was also the time i holed for several hours on MXE... Maybe it helped.