Is nicotine/caffeine neuro-protective against other powerful stimulants?

[PsychedelicWizard]

It would appear so. Some studies have shown that nicotine may be able to aid in the prevention of Parkinson's disease, Alzheimers, Schizophrenia, Tourette's, among other diseases, many of which are thought of as a byproduct of excessive dopamine-based damage, something further linked to powerful stimulants like methamp or amphe-derivatives. From personal experiences, I can verify the incredible urge and desirability of smoking when consuming say methamphetamine or amphetamine in larger, recreational doses, and I believe this may be the missing link and answer as to the synergy between stimulants. Caffeine is also said to be an anti-cancerigen, reducing impairment from sleep deprivation on cognitive performance, among other factors. Here's some articles...

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2496063

...there are many more if requested, but Google is a simple ally here.

It would seriously explain why people crave stimulants, on stimulants.

 

[Memantine]

Apparently paraxanthine, a metabolite of caffeine, acts as a neuroprotectant on dopaminergic cells via stimulation of intra-cellular ryanodine receptors located on the sarcoplasmic reticulum and endoplasmic reticulum.

I cannot imagine that your brain naturally craves healthy things tough. It mostly desires more activation of the mesolimbic pathways no matter the consequences.(most drugs are unhealthy yet people crave them)



One side note: Nicotine may be neuroprotective, but smoking increases the risk of neurodegenerative disseases.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

Apparently paraxanthine, a metabolite of caffeine, acts as a neuroprotectant on dopaminergic cells via stimulation of intra-cellular ryanodine receptors located on the sarcoplasmic reticulum and endoplasmic reticulum.

I cannot imagine that your brain naturally craves healthy things tough. It mostly desires more activation of the mesolimbic pathways no matter the consequences.(most drugs are unhealthy yet people crave them)

One side note: Nicotine may be neuroprotective, but smoking increases the risk of neurodegenerative disseases.

I'm curious as to how much genetics factor into this equation of health and risk. Case in point, the oldest man is a pack-a-day smoker. He is 126 years old with incredible cognitive alertness and overall health for his age and lifetime of smoking.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...may-be-worlds-oldest-person-at-126-years-old/

Could it be that every person is even more radically different than we thought? We all look physically different, even people from the same family, who is to say even then our very cells do not operate differently?

Someone might get a neurodegenerative disease from smoking, another may prevent one, according to this theory.

It must be so, otherwise, how else to explain the extreme variability when it comes to the end-results?

Furthermore, perhaps our brain does in fact crave healthy things, although what is healthy for one brain may not be for another, that is a possibly ground-breaking discovery waiting to unfold. Just a thought.

If you crave drugs, perhaps they are in fact good for you. I know there's a reason for example that I've tried heroin and methamphetamine, but never had interest in heroin to continue using more than twice in my life.

If the theory of general reward-activation was true, why are people hooked on different drugs? Just wondering, although I suppose it is impossible to verify.

 

[AA357]

Bad combination. Caffeine and nicotine are CNS stimulants. They raise blood pressure and cause vasoconstriction and dehydration.

 

[...]

The nicotine preventing Alzheimer's thing is problematic.

The UCSF team reviewed 43 published studies from 1984 to 2007. Authors of one-fourth of the studies had an affiliation with the tobacco industry.

The UCSF team determined that the average risk of a smoker developing AD, based on studies without tobacco industry affiliation, was estimated to be 1.72, meaning that smoking nearly doubled the risk of AD. In contrast, the team found that studies authored by individuals with tobacco industry affiliations, showed a risk factor of .86 (less than one), suggesting that smoking protects against AD. When all studies were considered together, the risk factor for developing AD from smoking was essentially neutral at a statistically insignificant 1.05.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2010/01/4356/study-shows-cigarette-smoking-risk-alzheimers-disease

Kind of hilarious actually. Practically nobody will start smoking to protect themselves from Alzheimers. Why do tobacco companies waste money on trying to make their products appear therapeutic?

 

[atara]

I've never in my life heard of someone craving caffeine on meth or any non-psychedelic stimulant. Tobacco is different. Nicotine isn't just a stimulant (it's not even very stimulating!); activation of nAChR releases beta-endorphin, which reduces the "tweakiness" of powerful stimulants. It also modulates sensitivity in the reward pathway and might act as a mild anxiolytic (anti-paranoia). There's a sort of bad model, popular in late-20th-century psychiatry, where a tug-of-war between dopamine and acetylcholine leads to parkinsonism with too much ACh and psychosis with too much DA: see here for an example. After all that's why you crave cigarettes on coke: it evens it out.

Coffee, on the other hand, has stronger evidence as an anti-Alzheimer's agent than... every known alternative, and caffeine alone is not sufficient. But it isn't neuroprotective in any well-established fashion, and it doesn't make Adderall more fun, rather less.

I'm curious as to how much genetics factor into this equation of health and risk. Case in point, the oldest man is a pack-a-day smoker. He is 126 years old with incredible cognitive alertness and overall health for his age and lifetime of smoking.

Nobody older than Jeanne Calment has ever been confirmed. To be fair, she smoked for nearly a hundred years.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

I've never in my life heard of someone craving caffeine on meth or any non-psychedelic stimulant. Tobacco is different. Nicotine isn't just a stimulant (it's not even very stimulating!); activation of nAChR releases beta-endorphin, which reduces the "tweakiness" of powerful stimulants. It also modulates sensitivity in the reward pathway and might act as a mild anxiolytic (anti-paranoia). There's a sort of bad model, popular in late-20th-century psychiatry, where a tug-of-war between dopamine and acetylcholine leads to parkinsonism with too much ACh and psychosis with too much DA: see here for an example. After all that's why you crave cigarettes on coke: it evens it out.

Coffee, on the other hand, has stronger evidence as an anti-Alzheimer's agent than... every known alternative, and caffeine alone is not sufficient. But it isn't neuroprotective in any well-established fashion, and it doesn't make Adderall more fun, rather less.



Nobody older than Jeanne Calment has ever been confirmed. To be fair, she smoked for nearly a hundred years.

I agree not craving caffeine particularly on meth, but I also crave a coca-cola or energy drink when I smoke cigs, and crave cigs when I smoke meth, thus I end up doing all of them.

Plus nothing beats a tea in the morning after a meth binge.

I agree about tobacco reducing the tweakiness of meth, which is what Parkinson's is basically. Caffeine though I think is neuroprotective against some of the damages to dopamine and norepinephrine receptors, along with boosting cognitive performance (I hold it stops the shadow people from appearing as much) during sleep withdrawal (this is verifiable).

All the same, while perhaps not smoking, what about e-cigs, Nicorette gum, or even patches?

There are other, less toxic ways of getting Nicotine.

Just curious about this. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[anubis23]

I found this while responding to the mephedrone toxicity thread, might be useful to you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25862193

 

[4meSM]

I've never in my life heard of someone craving caffeine on meth or any non-psychedelic stimulant. Tobacco is different. Nicotine isn't just a stimulant (it's not even very stimulating!); activation of nAChR releases beta-endorphin, which reduces the "tweakiness" of powerful stimulants. It also modulates sensitivity in the reward pathway and might act as a mild anxiolytic (anti-paranoia). There's a sort of bad model, popular in late-20th-century psychiatry, where a tug-of-war between dopamine and acetylcholine leads to parkinsonism with too much ACh and psychosis with too much DA: see here for an example. After all that's why you crave cigarettes on coke: it evens it out.
.

Interesting.
I also find cigs do the same thing to psychedelics. I usually smoke one when i'm picking to hard on LSD and it helps me relax and focus on what i want. Normally only have that effect from cigs while high on psychedelics, MDMA and sometimes on amphetamines.