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Stimulants Is mexican meth mostly racemic?

cletusSamboy

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Oct 24, 2021
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Copped a batch of what I was told is mexican meth and I have to say it feels quite different than any meth that I ever tried. Feels more clear headed and has more of a body effect. Is this typical of racemic meth? I quite like it compared to the smoothness and mostly mental effect of what I assume is d-meth.
 
Copped a batch of what I was told is mexican meth and I have to say it feels quite different than any meth that I ever tried. Feels more clear headed and has more of a body effect. Is this typical of racemic meth? I quite like it compared to the smoothness and mostly mental effect of what I assume is d-meth.
Yes, Mexican/American meth has been containing increasing amounts of L-meth over the last 20 years as the precursors used for synthesis have been changing over the decades. Some people describe it as relaxing or even "sleepy" meth.

I'm curious if what you have is actually from Mexico or if it's just described that way and was made with a similar process locally to you.
 
Yes, Mexican/American meth has been containing increasing amounts of L-meth over the last 20 years as the precursors used for synthesis have been changing over the decades. Some people describe it as relaxing or even "sleepy" meth.

I'm curious if what you have is actually from Mexico or if it's just described that way and was made with a similar process locally to you.
Honestly wouldn't have a clue but I'd say since a lot of meth is coming out of mexico it's not out of the question
 
Copped a batch of what I was told is mexican meth and I have to say it feels quite different than any meth that I ever tried. Feels more clear headed and has more of a body effect. Is this typical of racemic meth? I quite like it compared to the smoothness and mostly mental effect of what I assume is d-meth.
Actually that smooth body effect is mostly delivered by d-meth rather than l-meth. Euphoria and horniness (Especially the less tolerant you are) are a sign your meth is more d- then l-. That said, Mexican meth is often racemic (up to 50 % l-meth) but not always so. The Mexicans certainly know how to convert the l-meth proportion of the racemic meth produced by their P2P method into d-meth.

But more and of the meth produced in Asia uses P2P rather than traditional methods using pseudo or similar precursor. So you’ll often get some proportion of l-meth there too. The more alert, vigilant, tense, jumpy, sweaty, jittery etc etc you are the more l-meth you’ve likely got.
 
Mexican meth is not racemic, it's almost always d-meth. This has been discussed many times on this forum.

Sorry mate but this is not true. Over the past 15 years the amount of p2p synthed D/L-methylamphetamine coming from mexico into the US has sky rocketed. I will find a documentary i watched a couple of months ago that was made by a DEA drug testing analyst/lab worker.

He said when he started in the late 90's all he ever saw was Dextro-Methamphetamine (synthed from pseu/eph) By 2010 racmic meth cooked in the US was around 50%. By 2015 more than half the meth seizures from south America was from superlabs pushing out tonnes of of D/L-meth (from p2p) and he said on almost all occasions the chemists didn't bother removing the Levo from the final product. Today there is much more P2P cartel labs than eph/pseu.
 
Sorry mate but this is not true. Over the past 15 years the amount of p2p synthed D/L-methylamphetamine coming from mexico into the US has sky rocketed. I will find a documentary i watched a couple of months ago that was made by a DEA drug testing analyst/lab worker.

He said when he started in the late 90's all he ever saw was Dextro-Methamphetamine (synthed from pseu/eph) By 2010 racmic meth cooked in the US was around 50%. By 2015 more than half the meth seizures from south America was from superlabs pushing out tonnes of of D/L-meth (from p2p) and he said on almost all occasions the chemists didn't bother removing the Levo from the final product. Today there is much more P2P cartel labs than eph/pseu.
 
Thank you, 4meSM. This "racemic Mexican meth" misinformation has been debunked ad nauseum on this forum over the last couple years. See this paper for a full discussion. Essentially, it is being produced from P2P but is then being resolved using tartaric acid.
The dea lab guy said that his seeing more and more lazy cooks that havnt been removing the levo. I will find the documentary after dinner.
 
I note that their have been quite a lot of seizures of 'meth precursors' that list tartaric acid. It does seem like Mexican producers wax and wane over resolution which I presume is related to the price of PMK (or precursor thereof).

Weirdly, although nitroethane is closely watched, the resulting nitropropenes & nitropropanes (if you reduce with NaBH4) are NOT controlled. I don't understand that at all. It's not just the EU but the UNODC who seem to have overlooked them,
 
The Mexican meth I have got in the past has always been d - is0mer and even sometimes p2p

I may very well had some racemic mixture of lev0 salts Mexican meth however the way it burns and its melting point seemed to be that of d - isomer 0r p2p with a melting point of on average 175 to 180, lev0 salts burn quicker and evaporate into a soluble state when burnt in a glass apparatus for example.
 
If one has pure (R) methamphetamine then their is a 2006 and a 2014 paper on how to racemize it. Along with the tartaric acid, the reagents for this have likewise been seized. Basically it's a thiol and a radical initiator. It was first seen in Europe but given mass media, it didn't take long for others to realize that they could double their amount of product.
 
Beyond just the ingredients, P2P meth also has a higher concentration of the isomer called d-methamphetamine. For reference, there are two forms of meth: d- and l-methamphetamine. Both are methamphetamines, obviously, but the two often come in different forms. The d-isomer is found in prescription drugs, whereas the l-isomer is found in over-the-counter products. And street drugs contain both, but generally contain more of the d-isomer because of its enhanced effects.

The d-isomer produces the high, and the l-isomer affects the body. So P2P, with its heavy concentrations of d-isomer, creates a different and very intense high for its users.

Methamphetamine produced from ephedrine generally prompts those using it to stay up and socialize, sometimes for days, due to lower levels of the d-isomer. Whereas users of P2P meth experience very different effects, including severe mental illness, psychosis, the desire to isolate, and hallucinations or delusions.The d-isomer produces the high, and the l-isomer affects the body. So P2P, with its heavy concentrations of d-isomer, creates a different and very intense high for its users.
 
We stopped using d & l as nomenclature for stereoisomerism in 1979. So you will always see IUPAC naming using (R) & (S) rather than l- and r-.. The original scheme relied on polarized light shone through the a crystal of a pure chemical qould be rotated either levo (left) or dextro (right). The problem was that many chemicals won't form regular crystals and/or are opaque to the range of frequencies used for such a test. It was also discovered that the relationship between the rotation and the chemical structure was not as direct as was first thought. Also more complex compounds can have multiple stereocentres. Methylphenidate being an example.

I mean, for the purposes of methamphetamine, as long as people know what you mean then it's fine, but you cannot use the naming to correctly assign a structure. IUPAC naming will always allow you a specific structure, however many isomers their are (and it can get crazy very fast - morphine as 5 stereocentres at C5, C6, C9, C13 & C14), I truly have no IDEA if it rotates polarized light or if so, by how much and in which direction.
 
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We stopped using d & l as nomenclature for stereoisomerism in 1979. So you will always see IUPAC naming using (R) & (S) rather than l- and r-.. The original scheme relied on polarized light shone through the a crystal of a pure chemical either levo (left) or dextro (right). The problem was that many chemicals won't form regular crystals and/or are opaque to the range of frequencies used for such a test. It was also discovered that the relationship between the rotation and the chemical structure was not as direct as was first thought. Also more complex compounds can have multiple stereocentres. Methylphenidate being an example.

I mean, for the purposes of methamphetamine, as long as people know what you mean then it's fine, but you cannot use the naming to correctly assign a structure. IUPAC naming will always allow you a specific structure, however many isomers their are (and it can get crazy very fast - morphine as 5 stereocentres at C5, C6, C9, C13 & C14), I truly have no IDEA if it rotates polarized light or if so, by how much and in which direction).

Very well said and explained Fertil3! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
 
You are quite welcome - If you have any technical questions, you know where ask.
 


https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:

Shifts in manufacture of methamphetamine have continued in North America

Improved precursor control (including with the Chemical Diversion and Trafficking Act of 1988, the Domestic Chemical Diversion and Control Act of 1993 and in particular the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005) regulating over-the-counter sales of methamphetamine precursor chemicals such as ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine, and ongoing efforts to dismantle laboratories seem to have acted as a deterrent to large-scale domestic methamphetamine manufacture in the United States over the last 15 years. This approach seemed to have worked well initially, as domestic groups involved in methamphetamine manufacture in the United States (largely dominated by motorcycle gangs at the time) had limited chemical skills and were not in a position to seek alternative methods of manufacture, helping to reduce the domestic market for methamphetamine in the first decade of the new millennium. Annual prevalence of methamphetamine use fell from 0.7 per cent of the population aged 12 and older in 2002 to 0.3 per cent in 2008.5 Nonetheless, since 2010, the decrease in the domestic manufacture of methamphetamine in the United States has been more than offset by increasing imports of the drug from Mexico. A number of indicators have pointed to an expansion of the methamphetamine market within the United States, both in terms of supply of (sharply rising amounts seized and falling purity-adjusted prices) and demand for (rising prevalence of use, positive tests among the general workforce, treatment admissions and deaths) the drug.


The introduction of similar legislation in Mexico in 2008 to prevent over-the-counter sales and the diversion of ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine for the manufacture of methamphetamine, however, has not had the same impact as in the United States; instead, it has prompted Mexican organized crime groups to switch from using the ephedrine or pseudoephedrine method to the P-2-P-based method in the manufacture of methamphetamine. Initially, this went in parallel with the manufacture of a poorer quality product, but as the use of the P-2-P method in the methamphetamine found on the United States markets increased (rising from 1 per cent in 2007 to 37 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2009), the overall potency of methamphetamine found on the United States market declined, from 96 per cent in 2007 to 64 per cent in 2009. Without further purification at that time, the use of P-2-P allowed only for the manufacture of a less potent methamphetamine-racemate instead of the more potent d-methamphetamine that could be manufactured from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.


Manufacturers tried to compensate for this apparent shortcoming by increasing the purity of methamphetamine: the purity of the methamphetamine found on the United States market rose from about 40 per cent in 2007 to close to 70 per cent in 2009.


According to United States authorities, the chemical expertise of Mexican organized crime groups improved further and they eventually succeeded in manufacturing highly potent d-methamphetamine from P-2-P, a skill that is now also sought after by criminal groups in countries outside the Americas. The reported purity of methamphetamine in the United States rose from 92 per cent in the first half of 20118 to 97 per cent in the first quarter of 2019, while the potency of the drug rose from 76 per cents to almost 98 per cent over the same period. This indicates an improvement in the know-how of the organized crime groups and an overall increase in the supply of methamphetamine in the United States.° The analysis of seizure data also suggests that, by the first half of 2019, 99 per cent of the methamphetamine on the United States market was manufactured using the P-2-P-based method, mainly out of non-controlled precursors of P-2-P, typically imported from China.
 
IMO the notion that the method of manufacture is the cause of that exhausted feeling has no basis in fact. What IS likely happening is that the higher quality stuff is more common than it used to be, and that feeling is the result of overamping. Your brain is trying to tell you to chill, you're overworking it and probably have a tolerance and/or have gotten far more used to the effects and are taking too much.
 
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