• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

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Is MDMA really the most powerful empathogen?

I think that AMT is one of those medications that you should plug into the rectum to take advantage of its effects without being crushed by bodyload. It would also reduce the length of the trip that can be strenuous.


DocLad
 
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I used it intranasally most of the time, did experiment a bit with oral use, but the further away from either end of my intestines, the better. The stimulant push can get pretty intense though, especially with breakthrough doses, that for me, were around 100mg starting range.
 
I used it intranasally most of the time, did experiment a bit with oral use, but the further away from either end of my intestines, the better. The stimulant push can get pretty intense though, especially with breakthrough doses, that for me, were around 100mg starting range.

I read that AMT is not a good substance to snort. I suppose you have snorted AMT in the form of salt and not free base.
I think rectally it's more powerful than snorted. 100mg is a very high dose.


DocLad
 
No, it was the base I had, and it did sting, and smell, well, stittily indolic, I quite liked it for long hiking trips out to go out to the woods, find somewhere to do all that private introspection that was needed at the time, spend a fair part of the day foraging for a wild mushroom fryup, and then find somewhere decent to go take a nap where I'd not be disturbed, while it was peaking. Quite liked it at a fairly high dose, up to about ~150mg although despite its insanely speedy effects at a high dose, it seems to paradoxically become pretty strongly sedating and mongy, in a good way, although to the point where I ended up one time with some dog walker turning up in a stress, wondering if I was dead, suppose it wasn't his fault, didn't really plan on talking to anyone at the time, but I had just found that despite the speedy, amphetamine type push AMT is known for, that there really was nothing else for it but to go find somewhere comfortable, sit down for a bit, and that ended up with me falling asleep.

Got lucky too, chose a spot that had parasol mushrooms fruiting in a decent quantity =D
 
Pretty sure pure mdma/mda combo falls short of old rolls was the old rolls had mdma plus mda maybe plus meth and/or opiates.
 
Interesting that people mention AMT.

What I singularly fail to understand is that while people seem able to get their heads around the idea that there are 2 optical isomers of methamphetamine, however often it's pointed out, nobody seems to have grasped that AMT is likewise composed of 2 optical isomers.

When resolved, it turns out that the (S) enantiomer is a 5HT2b ligand (trippy) whereas the (R) enantiomer most assuredly is not - it's very much like MDA.

But 3,4-methylenedioxyaminorex is better than MDMA (and IS in the original aminorex patent). Heck, I don't think it's even legally controlled in most places. But it is a little more tricky to make compared to MDMA. So I conclude the latter is the more facile product...

Unless you enjoy NOT breaking your local law. If that's a consideration, 34MDAR is good stuff.
 
It seems psychedelic and empathogenic go hand-in-hand. All these drugs seem to be empathogenic but with loads of baggage. DocLad is right that this is highly subjective but we can objectively generalize when the differences are large, everybody agrees MDA is just a speedier version of MDMA. If consensus is hard to reach then that tells me that all these alternatives (6-APB, 5-MAPB etc.) do not significantly differ in effect. I guess MDMA is the standard empathogen.
In response to your question of whether I consider LSD the most powerful psychedelic, I consider it the most powerful mindfuck I ever had. I would never go near it again, lmao.
At what age and in which setting you took it ?

As it sounds just like my first 2/ 3 experiences in my youth 20-ties [1 a candyflip].
All 3 total mind fuck on 1/4 and 1/2 s [strong blotters i assume],
now 50 + i can take a whole blot, 150 mcg 1p-LSD and just chill.
Though its not real LSD but a analogue, ALD-52 being nr 1. IME

Tops em all in serenity.

Opposite Tryptamine s, Pslicybine Shrooms most, but even 4-HO-MIPT.
Heavy trips, so abandoned it. Emphatogen s btw too.
don t go well with loneliness at all.
 
Interesting that people mention AMT.

What I singularly fail to understand is that while people seem able to get their heads around the idea that there are 2 optical isomers of methamphetamine, however often it's pointed out, nobody seems to have grasped that AMT is likewise composed of 2 optical isomers.

When resolved, it turns out that the (S) enantiomer is a 5HT2b ligand (trippy) whereas the (R) enantiomer most assuredly is not - it's very much like MDA.

But 3,4-methylenedioxyaminorex is better than MDMA (and IS in the original aminorex patent). Heck, I don't think it's even legally controlled in most places. But it is a little more tricky to make compared to MDMA. So I conclude the latter is the more facile product...

Unless you enjoy NOT breaking your local law. If that's a consideration, 34MDAR is good stuff.
aMT felt like a Psylocybine without visuals and XR.
Took 60/ 70 mg max, had a few terrible trials the rest became a collected item.
My first postal purchased RC, excepting GHB.

So half the bag contains a isomer that assume ably is better then the racemic.
Any DIY procedure to get em seperated ?
 
Pretty sure pure mdma/mda combo falls short of old rolls was the old rolls had mdma plus mda maybe plus meth and/or opiates.
Old rolls rarely 1% maybe had MDA. Never Meth or Opiods in NL.
Pretty much every pill contained just MDMA various ammounts.

Still there were speedy, midway and the so called uni lab grade MDMA crystals.
That felt opposit to the speedy roll, a slow come up/ psychedelic feelin wavey experience.

The mid way was akin to that and my preference.
80 mg of that felt better then 120 of the speedy kind
[and no there was no Amphetamine/ Caffeine in it, we tested]

The Crystals were very hard to get. So little experience with that.
 
I made the classic mistake with MDA roll once. The stamp was literally a 1 as if to say that's the max dose, yet we took the last 1 and 1/2 each after 1 didn't work within 90 minutes. As soon as we downed the extra 1.5 the 1 kicked in.... yeah we puked but we sold 4 and that 1 dude did all 4 every 20 min. or something lol. He was okay though.
 
I've played with mixtures of 6-APB, MDA, MDMA, and also 25C-NBOMe/2C-B (due to their somewhat empathogenic feelings), and while I'd never advise mixing 25C-NBOMe, mixing it with MDA and a xanny was beautiful. Nowadays I view 6-APB as being annoyingly speedy, and tend to craft my rolls using a 2:1 of MDA:MDMA with 2C-B being taken somewhere either before or after that.

I wish so desparately that all of these posts talking about variances of crystal MDMA from the past still had existing samples that could be subjected to modern analyses (NMR, HPLC, etc.) so that we could see what the actual differences were. It reminds me so much about people saying that "MDMA isn't the same as it used to be", or the same thing with meth, or people claiming that acid has "strains" where some vary in stimulation or visuals.

I'm likely only qualified via experience to speak on the LSD differences, but they feel different by RoA and purity, as far as I can tell though, nothing else. Fortunately, I had a gang of esoteric hippies that used to live with me and they were cool with doing placebo tests if they knew at least what the total list of possible compounds they were being administered were. I'd give them LSD I would say was "speedy" or "hypervisual" or whatever and consistently the beliefs that they entered the trip with would go on to shape the trip.

On the topic of MDMA variances like were mentioned by @emkee_reinvented I suspect that this whole set/setting effect that I used to use to alter the experiential effects of acid from the same exact vial, and possibly the isomerism of the MDMA were to blame.
 
So half the bag contains a isomer that assume ably is better then the racemic.
Any DIY procedure to get em seperated ?

Yes.

The thing is, in Tihkal Shulgin reported that aET (alpha ethyl tryptamine) had actually been legally produced and marketed by a specialist supplier. In the 80s someone set up a fake company to purchase the stuff and then sold it on the street AS ecstasy. Not as MDMA - that's an important detail.

Why? Because when the seller was caught they were found not guilty BECAUSE the term 'ecstasy' isn't a chemical definition but a nickname and aET was legal at the time. So what then? Then that same seller went on buying & selling aET and got arrested a second time!!! This time the judge made it clear that although aET was not legally controlled, there were still many charges that COULD be made (poisoning, unregulated medicine or whatever). The situation eventually resolved itself because the price of aET went up by 2000% shortly afterwards.

Why do I mention aET? Because that longer chain is what stops the 5HT2a affinity. But since it's only one of the isomers of aMT that is a 5HT2a ligand, resolution or chiral synthesis is an alternative.

We used O,O-dibenzoyl tartaric acid to resolve the isomers and it was me that got sent two little bags, one labelled with a (+), the other with a (-). Over a couple of weeks I slowly worked up the dose of each. I was vaping it so it was VERY evident which one was the hallucinogen and more importantly, which one wasn't. I DO NOT recommend people do this. Vaping potent tryptamines is a risky thing to do but not knowing how much would be required, I had to minimize the amount of material used in each test. Most researchers who self-test IV the stuff, but I hate needles.

Chemists will be aware that small samples are extremely expensive to produce as if novel, one has to essentially guess a workable route.
I thought about it and realized that the 50% 'waste' might not actually BE waste. I'm pretty sure that racemization is possible or at worst, the amine could be oxidized back to the ketone so could be fed back into the feedstock. Better, I strongly suspect that with a chiral catalyst or using a chiral auxiliary, the pure enantiomers could be produced. Lastly, it's not as if the (R) isomer is inactive. It's VERY trippy. In fact, it's possible that it's better than the racemate if only because the body only has half as much to metabolize. There is generally a rate-limiting step in metabolism. I suppose the example most people will know is booze. Hangovers are largely due to the body not being able to remove the oxidation product of ethanol, acetaldehyde. I don't KNOW because I've never actually sampled the raecemic product, but it seems like a reasonable guess.

Long ago I read that Ken Casey had declared aMT to be the 'Rolls Royce of psychedelics lasting 12 hours and having a very gentle comedown'. Now here is the thing. I'm uncertain how THAT aMT was made. If it had been made by the reduction of the amino acid tryptophan, it would be optically active. I think that's one of those things we will never know for sure.

But I think the important point is that tryptamines can be entactogens. Until now almost every entactogen has been a ring-substituted PEA or bioisostere thereof (e.g. Benzo Fury).

I will conclude by noting that in the original 60s patents Upjohn obtained include 7-methyl aMT and 7-methyl aET. In animal models these proved to be an order of magnitude more potent as a monoamine releaser BUT I don't think anyone tested if it's MAOI properties likewise increased. It's worth noting that if one overlays aMT and amphetamine, that 7 methyl perfectly overlays the para (4) position of amphetamine. I am only too aware that PMA is a dangerous compound so I would be very careful studying it.

Sorry if I over-explained all of that. It wasn't an attempt to 'blind you with science' but I tested the isomers of aMT about 15 years ago and I'm still not certain why nobody has gone down that path. I suspect it's because the initial reaction is 'we waste HALF of the product?' but I've had a long time to consider the various ways in which ALL of the product gets used, one way or another.
 
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aET sounded better then aMT, is it muffy too ?
The disadvantage of vaping aMT, the smell/ taste.
But it vapes very well the freebase.

Felt like non visual Psylocybine with legs.
aET was withdrawn from the commercial market due to inducin agranulocytosis, wasn't it? I'm not sure if that's only a result of taking too much, or taking it too often, but it's a compound I'd personally be very careful using as agranulocytosis is some truly scary shit.
 
Mirtazepine has that as side effect if i am correct.
But when daily dosing that will lightly occur more then once a while.

Wouldn t deter me from trying it once.
But i d check if its common or rare. To be sure.
 
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To bad its of the legal map. Soon more will follow.

I expect a Monsoon of mass drug legalisation after. Soon !
I'm not really sure what to expect, but as far as the legalization of psychedelics and empathogens, I bet it'll take a VERY long time and will have synthetic euphoriants with known (and high) toxicity probably last in line. It's not the hardest for a clandestine chemist to make assuming they can access reed canary grass for the necessary starting material. Past that, it should follow a very similar process to the creation of aMT, but with a single alteration to the reagents used I would assume, though I'm not confident as most clandestine chemists don't even consider aET worth the time it would take to make something, whether it's a relatively trivial synthesis or not.
 
I'm not really sure what to expect, but as far as the legalization of psychedelics and empathogens, I bet it'll take a VERY long time and will have synthetic euphoriants with known (and high) toxicity probably last in line. It's not the hardest for a clandestine chemist to make assuming they can access reed canary grass for the necessary starting material. Past that, it should follow a very similar process to the creation of aMT, but with a single alteration to the reagents used I would assume, though I'm not confident as most clandestine chemists don't even consider aET worth the time it would take to make something, whether it's a relatively trivial synthesis or not.
Its my age that giving me advantage.
Its not like when young every drug had to be tried.

Free at last, at the end of a golden age of RC chemical s,
Knowing that at 70+ you can still make your own DMT or Ayahuasca.
Good enough.
 
LSD + 2C-B ranks in top 5 experiences but I think it somewhat ruined my non-combo 2C-B experiences thereafter. I'm thinking it will return to normal in a few years though. Bees were sooooo much more visual before. I completely give up on nitrous ever feeling as good as it used to. Longest permatolerance ever. Probably DXM too if I ever touched that rascally stuff again.
 
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