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Is LSD really LSD?

The Pharaohs were definitely LSD. I took 2 after a mate told me they were pretty weak and had light visualisations and all the rest that is associated with good acid. A mate had 3.5 and said he had visualisations for 3hrs or so..

Remember at low doses of LSD the full 'acid trip' will be pretty tame - no visualisations (maybe some distortions) and only tame detatchment from reality. From experience - particularly from those Pharaohs - a low dose of acid can be a head fuck and quite boring if your not in the right environment. Also remember that LSD easily deteriorates in heat and direct sunlight so how old the tabs are and how they've been stored can impact heavily on how hard you trip.
There is no doubt in my mind that there is a large amount of LSD floating around Australia my own personal experiences can vouch for that
 
Immortal Teknique said:
Something like LSA might be confused with LSD but the DOx compounds IME are easy to distinguish.

i think its quite easy to distinguish between LSA's and LSD, the structure and feel of both trips is significantly different and anyone with a few decent trips of either under their belt should be able to tell them apart

as for the initail post, all of the acid i have eaten has been LSD.
 
i dont see how ANYONE could confuse MDA/mdma with LSD, despite the problem of fitting it onto a blotter.

I've tried various types of acid in australia over the last few years though and I can say there've definitely been some differences between them - some sort of other chemical has been present on at least 1 of them

theres no reason to believe that nobody is making LSD though. . the lack of busts would have more to do with the tiny amounts of precursors requried to make it, and also the smaller market for it.

and the fact that all the hippies from the 60s/70s are the ones trying to enforce anti-drug laws now, and obviously they will only pick on the things they havent tried and are afraid of!
 
It's generally acknowledged (by the DEA) that 99% of the worlds quality LSD is manufactured by no more than seven people in California, and considering the amount that can be manufactured in one cook it wouldn't be surprising to learn that at least some of it makes its way over here. Other than that, reportedly a lot of weaker dirtier acid comes out of eastern europe, where organised gangs have ready access to ergotamine tartrate but lack the skills possessed by the American cooks.
 
I don't think I believe that. I think LSD is synth'd in Australia and also asian countries.
 
"It's generally acknowledged (by the DEA) that 99% of the worlds quality LSD is manufactured by no more than seven people in California"

That one percent doesnt leave much room for the rest of the world?!
No doubt there are people manufacturing in oz.


well then...ill say this :)
pharoahs were certainly nothing compared to dilberts, gettafixes adn then cubes that were around at a similiar time.
LSD is defiently stimulating at reasonable doses whereas LSA is sedating, for
most it would be easy to distinguish between the two.
 
I agree that LSA and LSD are different but i was trying to outline how different DOx compounds are from LSD. Now that i think about it my 2 LSA experiences weren't much like acid, but to a novice the two could possibly be confused.

To Chronik Fatigue, i take everything the DEA says as a grain of salt. They really have no grasp on the current drug situation, i mean, look at the drug scene in America. They would have to have some of the strictest laws yet they have some of the biggest problems, e.g. meth epidemic. Im fairly sure ergotamine tartrate would be smuggled and LSD would be synthed here. Who knows, the criminal world is vast with many networks and avenues for smuggling many things. Im sure some finished product is imported, along with precursors.

This is all assumptions anyway based on my opinion and the facts i have read, but who really knows, what i do know is that some of the LSD going around at the moment is of good quality so i cant complain :) :) :)
 
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The thing about the 99% figure is that they refer to quality LSD, apparently the synth is quite difficult than for less pure material.

Although, you'd be right to take it with a grain of salt. It really is just pure conjecture.
 
what i do know is that some of the LSD going around at the moment is of good quality so i cant complain
I agree with that one! ;)

that 99% of the worlds quality LSD is manufactured by no more than seven people in California"
Source?? Dude I have mates who could potentially manufacture acid (3rd year Chemical Engineer students), I'm told its difficult but obviously not impossible with a little motivation. Plus if it takes only a 100 micrograms to trip balls imagine how many trips you would get with just one small batch of 10ml pure LSD.
 
Immortal Teknique said:
No see i disagree. DOB, DOI, and DOC etc are all too different to even be considered when tripping on acid, for me anyway. Clean acid has complete absence of body load, a strict duration, obvious and unique effects, enough to make a very, very educated decision. The DOx compounds have substantial differences. Durations of 30+ hours, i mean how can that be confused with acid. Tweaked out meth-like stimulation, different visuals.

Something like LSA might be confused with LSD but the DOx compounds IME are easy to distinguish.

The 'decision' you make is based on previous experience, known effects or duration of the substance. I would consider this to be an educated guess rather than a definitive identification of the substance.

Someone who has only ever consumed a DOx compound in the mistaken belief it was LSD would easily be confused. These people will continue to believe what they are consuming is in fact LSD until they are provided with more information about the substance, which in turn will allow them to make a more educated guess in the future.

I think what needs to be remembered here is that people on Bluelight are generally more educated about drugs, including effects and duration, than the average Joe drug user.

If someone is fed oranges all their life but are told they are apples, when they pass on oranges or eat them with others they will identify them as apples. Although the information they are passing on is incorrect, those who have not experienced apples either will believe that the appearance, colour and texture of an orange is an apple.
 
Source?? Dude I have mates who could potentially manufacture acid (3rd year Chemical Engineer students), I'm told its difficult but obviously not impossible with a little motivation.

Unless their course contains advanced chromatography and organic techniques as used in the medicinal/ pharmaceutical manufacturing industries, I doubt a typical chem engineer degree of today would equip them with sufficient knowledge. However, there are certain routes from ergotamine and other "close" starting materials that are much simpler, but I'd suggest that some pretty intensive extra-curriculum research/ lab practice would still be needed. Most routes from lysergic acid itself require lots of relatively expensive equipment, massive chromatography columns and some well mastered, nifty separation techniques. Still, in saying that, I agree with Splatt that it's being manufactured in this country.


Our first acid (NZ, late 70's) was in fact DOM, on large thick cardboard blotters. It was a long drawn out trip, but not knowing any better, we thought this was acid - that is, until the local newspaper did a story on the DOM blotters complete with pictures. The story also showed some real acid that was circulating. Within a week we'd tracked that down. It was of course a very different experience.
 
It would be a great way to pay for your course if you were a PhD chemical engineer student with lab access 8o
 
ilikeacid said:
Source?? Dude I have mates who could potentially manufacture acid (3rd year Chemical Engineer students), I'm told its difficult but obviously not impossible with a little motivation. Plus if it takes only a 100 micrograms to trip balls imagine how many trips you would get with just one small batch of 10ml pure LSD.

I don't have a source (ie. can't be fucked looking for something I read years ago) but I am sure other people on this forum know what I am talking about. I'm sure your mates could but I stress the word "quality", I am under the impression (and could be wrong) that it requires more skill and experience to produce the sort of crystal I'm talking about. Even Hoffman was producing yellow-tan crystal, it wasn't until Owsley's 'White Lightning' that white needle-point crystal was perfected.


phase_dancer said:
Unless their course contains advanced chromatography and organic techniques as used in the medicinal/ pharmaceutical manufacturing industries, I doubt a typical chem engineer degree of today would equip them with sufficient knowledge. However, there are certain routes from ergotamine and other "close" starting materials that are much simpler, but I'd suggest that some pretty intensive extra-curriculum research/ lab practice would still be needed. Most routes from lysergic acid itself require lots of relatively expensive equipment, massive chromatography columns and some well mastered, nifty separation techniques. Still, in saying that, I agree with Splatt that it's being manufactured in this country.



What are your thoughts on the quality issue? I assume you are aware of the stories about the so-called 'dead-family' in the US, do you think that those simpler methods would yield the white needle-point quality crystal that those American manufacturers are reputed to produce? I wonder if any potential Aus manufacturers would have the capacity to produce crystal at that quality.
 
Anyone on here doing chemistry at uni? Would it be possible?

I'm thinking of taking a few courses at my uni.
 
chemical processes are difficult to figure out, but once theyve been figured out its not *that* hard to perform them provided you have some idea whats going on/what to look out for and have the equipment.
 
chemical processes are difficult to figure out, but once theyve been figured out its not *that* hard to perform them provided you have some idea whats going on/what to look out for and have the equipment.

Yes and no. Chemistry theory and synthetic processes are quite different disciplines, and neither can be learned properly overnight. Even if someone knows the theory i.e. molecular interactions, it doesn't automatically mean they can perform the processes. These have to be learned/practiced separate to and in addition to the theory. Yet without the theory, mistakes are common, and I'm talking about chemistry in general here, not solely in relation to drugs.

What happens if a process doesn't go as planned. Or you need to check the contents or salvage something? When talking about a more complex process, a complete knowledge of the chemistry involved is usually mandatory. As a rather crude analogy, it's why pseudo cooks can't turn to making meth from a more involved process; they usually don't understand the chemistry involved. Regardless of what route was chosen, LSD in comparison to meth or MDMA synths would be far more involved. This is because of several things. Firstly there's the handling of the substances; intermediates are unstable, then there's the separation processes which as mentioned would also be tricky. Finally there's the importance of having a fairly sterile and clean air environment with the correct lighting. Not to mention the importance of the chemist being protected from accidental exposure.

With some routes (check Rhodium-LSD @ Erowid if you want to look at typical syntheses) there are less problems, although obtaining the starting materials and other chemicals would be anything but easy. LSD chems are highly watched. Even if you could obtain ergotamine from migraine medicines, you would need a pallet load to get a decent amount. Then there's the procedures that require chemicals which are anything but "over the counter". Then there's the costs e.g. Alumina for chromatography is damned expensive, particularly with the amounts likely to be required for separating the isomers. In short, start to finish its a big operation, requiring lots of expensive and/or hard to obtain chemos and equipment.

As for Chem engineers: Chemical engineering involves industrial chemistry and the processes and scales normally found in chemical plants. Fluid dynamics, reactor vessels, filtration etc etc, while important things to know for any chemist, are nevertheless not the essentials a synthetic chemist typically needs to know and understand. The scale of the synthetic chemist is completely different, and as said, unless trained in pharmaceutical or medicinal chemistry, typical industrial applied chemistry as taught today doesn't cover these areas.

If anyone thought they'd take chemistry at Uni with the intention of making LSD, I'd say that by the time you'd become proficient in the techniques involved, you'd be aspiring to higher (and legal) things. There are only a couple of institutes in Australia that teach traditional organic chemistry to this degree, and they tend to be the hardest to get into (highest standards).

A course in medicinal chemistry or drug discovery might give you some info, but I'd say it would take more than just graduate level knowledge in relation to most of the courses currently offered. These days drug discovery uses techniques such as in-silico, combinatorial or scaffold chemistry together with high throughput screening in order to find the drugs of interest. While chemists are still required to work out the conventional synthesis, most of this work is done off shore at the present. Another worldwide and very worrying trend is that established institutions are dropping chemistry as a course option. Even Major institutions such as Oxford are doing this. Once upon a time Armadale Uni had a good traditional chem degree program, as did the institute I studied at. But because of changing trends (and to a lesser degree because of drugs produced on campus) these institutes have altered their courses and in many cases, now don't go very far into organic chem.


As for LSD quality. Well, I do know that some LSD tested in this country over the past 3 years contained phenethylamines and other substitutes including at least one with AMT. It's quite possible some acid also contained LSD analogues, but without access to seizure tests, it's impossible to say whether chemists are venturing down this road. Perhaps ALD-52 or another active is being made, but ALD-52 is unstable so the question has to be asked, would chemists consider it to be worthwhile to manufacture and distribute on a wide scale.?

As for impurities and possible affects on the trip. I see this as unlikely to be a problem for users in regards to blotters, as any impurities in quantities found on a standard blotter would not be likely to have any real affect. With liquid it could be a different story, although the stability of LSD could well be affected with any such leftovers, side reaction products etc. Remember, LSD is very soluble in water. If there are 20 x 50uL drops in one millilitre, and 1 gram of LSD crystal dissolves in 1 mL, then each drop can potentially contain 1gram/ 20 = 50 milligrams. That's 500 x 100ug doses!

So liquid LSD as found at street level is really a very dilute mixture, meaning any manufacturing impurities present in a standard dose of "liquid" are likely to be present only in tiny amounts; unlikely to affect health or the quality of the trip itself.
 
^ I want to eat your brain p_d =D =D

If anyone thought they'd take chemistry at Uni with the intention of making LSD, I'd say that by the time you'd become proficient in the techniques involved, you'd be aspiring to higher (and legal) things. There are only a couple of institutes in Australia that teach traditional organic chemistry to this degree, and they tend to be the hardest to get into (highest standards).
This seems to be the case. The mates I refer to have often talked about how they could combine their talents to produce LSD - for the record a few are engineers another few are actually working in the pharmacutical industry doing biochem lab work, I have absolutly no doubt in my mind that if they pooled their rather large brains and abilities to "borrow" equipment and access other materials they could pull it off ;)

However, like you said, they may love acid but they value their careers and personal freedom too much to actually put some serious effort into production. Too bad for me I guess.
 
I have heard that police testing of seized acid tabs in AUstralia reveals that they are nearly all LSD. I think it's reasonable to assume that pretty much everything sold as LSD in Aus really is LSD. Think about it - if you are the kind of person who wants to make money selling fake drugs, would you pick fake LSD, or something with a larger potential market?
 
dogs can't smell it and creativeness can get it through the post...
;)
no reason to manufacture it here when it can be sent to you super cheaply.....'cept of course if you don't have mates overseas!
:)
 
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