Is it illegal for a landlord to ask a prospective tenant if they are Jewish? (Upd.)

Mariposa

Mariposa

Bluelight Crew
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Title says it all, but here's some background. I live in the State of California.

I live in an apartment building that is owned by a woman who is Israeli; she is also Jewish (she informed me of both). All but two of the apartments are rented to Israeli persons or families.

We signed the lease two months ago. My boyfriend, bless his heart, found it for us. I saw the apartment and met the landlady once before we signed the lease.

My boyfriend informed me that the landlady asked if we were Jewish at their initial meeting... of course I found this out several weeks after we signed the lease. Neither of us is a member of the Jewish faith (he is atheist-leaning agnostic; I am agnostic) and neither of us come from Jewish families. I think the landlady asked because both of our respective last names are names that are not uncommon among Jewish families, particularly an alternate spelling of his.

Was this question illegal, or was it protected free speech?

I ask out of simple curiosity. My boyfriend probably did not consider the fact that this question might be illegal. Was it?

I don't plan to do anything about it if it was, and the plot isn't thick or anything. I do have a small inkling of belief that we are looked at differently because we are not Jewish, and of note is that we pay approximately $250 more per month for our apartment than anyone else in the building. Our apartment is the largest, but not the best.

Interested in any opinions as to laws governing fair housing and free speech -- thanks a bunch.
 
Assuming you are not living in a convent or other spiritual place, religion is definitely a protected class. I gotta run, but here is a quick pull of Title VII...

"Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents of legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability)."

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/FHLaws/

First Amendment isn't really the issue here.
 
^Thanks B :)

I live in a residential apartment building, and there is no licensed or permitted place of worship in or near my leased premises.

The Unruh Act would appear to govern the issue; I'm torn on this, though. We were given the right to occupy the apartment under a valid lease. My landlady *may have* asked my boyfriend the question because she wished to inform him of a place of worship nearby, which is information that would be helpful to someone moving to a new home. However, he did not ask to be directed to a place of worship. Maybe she was trying to be friendly; maybe not.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Anti-SLAPP causes of action (I was not until recently, and they're specific to California). We intend to fulfill our lease obligation, as the apartment we live in suits our needs except for this nagging issue.

Already she communicates solely with my boyfriend; my explanation for this is that I disclosed to her that I work for and with attorneys but am not an attorney myself. She asked me explicitly to bring any items needed for repair of the apartment, etc., to her attention directly, and "not go through lawyers".

I'm unwilling to break the lease over the situation in the previous paragraph because I have invested time and money in the care and decoration of my new home. I'm not going to tolerate any missteps when I am living by the rules.

My landlady also filed questionable documents with the municipal rent board indicating that the apartment has only one occupant (not pursuant to the lease, and two of us live here).

I want only peaceful enjoyment of my home. These things make that difficult. In consideration for my rent, I don't need this shit.

I'll be correcting the records with the municipal rent board tomorrow. I will not tolerate any form of discrimination as to self or others and was hesitant to bring this up, but I believe it is a valid question.
 
It does not sound as if you have suffered any discrimination for your lack of religion. She probably was just being "nice."

I would however worry about not having both of you on the lease. How does she justify that and how did you allow it?
 
Missykins said:
It does not sound as if you have suffered any discrimination for your lack of religion. She probably was just being "nice."
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paying more than others because of religion would be illegal, though you might have a tough time proving the necessary connection between the two factors (i.e. religion and higher rent). at the end of the day, unless your landlord is doing something egregious, i think many would agree that it is not worth the effort to sue.
 
Missykins said:
I would however worry about not having both of you on the lease. How does she justify that and how did you allow it?
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Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my initial post. We are both on the lease.

Due to municipal rent control issues, a statement has to be filed by the Landlord stating the rent paid and number of occupants in the apartment.

The lease is valid. The statement of occupancy was erroneously filed; I'll be sending a copy of my lease with an amended statement (which a Tenant can do) correcting the error to the statement. The lease is in both our names, as we want it to be.

I will not be mentioning religion. The statement of occupancy is a formality and not the forum to address any issues beyond who lives at a given location.

I have suffered no actual harm, so there is no action to pursue at present. I made the inquiry because I wasn't sure if it qualified as an illegal question. I'm now pretty sure it does, and it's in my better interest not to let my landlady know that I know that.

We pay our rent on time and that's all that she needs to know.
 
Mariposa said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my initial post. We are both on the lease.

Due to municipal rent control issues, a statement has to be filed by the Landlord stating the rent paid and number of occupants in the apartment.

The lease is valid. The statement of occupancy was erroneously filed; I'll be sending a copy of my lease with an amended statement (which a Tenant can do) correcting the error to the statement. The lease is in both our names, as we want it to be.

I will not be mentioning religion. The statement of occupancy is a formality and not the forum to address any issues beyond who lives at a given location.

I have suffered no actual harm, so there is no action to pursue at present. I made the inquiry because I wasn't sure if it qualified as an illegal question. I'm now pretty sure it does, and it's in my better interest not to let my landlady know that I know that.

We pay our rent on time and that's all that she needs to know.
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Exactly.
 
Hell yes it is illegal. Hell to the yes. And more egregious, none of her beeswax!
 
^ Wouldn't it only be illegal if there was discrimination based on it, either in the offering of the apartment itself or in the rent or other terms offered?

Or is it illegal just to ask the question? If so, can anyone post support for that?
 
When in the process of renting property it is illegal to ask certain questions. When the apartment is rented and the terms and conditions have all been agreed on, then if you and the landlord want to chat, cool.

But not before or during.

Kowing if thre is discrimination in the question is a really difficult thing to ascertain (kinda like knowing what is in someone's heart or what their intent is), that is why certain topics are OFF LIMITS when renting an apartment.
 
Why would asking a question be illegal when you have the right not to answer said question?

If because of your refusal to answer the question about religion you were discriminated against then maybe a FHA violation had occured.

The below from nolo.com is vague but the best I could find


Most landlords will want you to fill out a rental application with information on your employment, income, credit and financial information, rental housing history and any criminal convictions. It's legal to ask for all this information and use it to make rental decisions. Landlords may also legally ask you for your Social Security and driver's license numbers and (except in New York) for proof of your legal residency in the United States. Landlords may even ask if you smoke or if you've ever been sued.

How far can landlords go? They can ask for any information that will:

tell them whether you're likely to be a good tenant, and
help them find you if you skip town owing them for rent or property damage.
Questions that don't relate to these two issues are probably not legal. Keep in mind, however, that not all discrimination is illegal, so some questions that may not "sound right" may, in fact be legal. (See "Are You Two, Like, Together?" below.)

Look at it this way: When you rent a car, you're often asked for multiple forms of ID and your driving history. Renting a place to live isn't all that different: The landlord, as much as the car rental agency, needs to know whether you're a good risk and how to find you if things go awry. In fact, since rental property is a much bigger investment than a car, a landlord is motivated to be even pickier.

2. Question One, Question All
While landlords are entitled to ask business-related questions on a rental application or during an interview, there is an important hitch: They should subject all applicants to the identical set of basic questions. As mentioned above, federal and state anti-discrimination laws make it illegal to single out members of certain groups (such as people of a certain race or ethnic background) for special treatment -- and interview or application questions that aren't directed at everyone constitute special treatment. For example, landlords who ask about immigration history should ask all tenants, not just those whom they suspect might be in the country illegally. Questioning only Hispanics would amount to illegal discrimination on the basis of national origin. Similarly, requiring credit reports only from African-Americans would also be considered illegal discrimination

I would surmise that if the landlord asks each prospect the same question it may well be OK.

I am a landlord and I don't want to know one's religious affiliation as I have been stiffed on rent from people of all sorts of religious backgrounds and have also had good tenants of all religious backgrounds so I dont see where it makes a difference on whether you will pay rent on time and not damage my property
 
woodpecker said:
For example, landlords who ask about immigration history should ask all tenants, not just those whom they suspect might be in the country illegally. Questioning only Hispanics would amount to illegal discrimination on the basis of national origin. Similarly, requiring credit reports only from African-Americans would also be considered illegal discrimination
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National origin is a protected classification so asking about immigration status should be done very carefully. This is true for job interviews also.
 
There's nothing illegal about asking about religious beliefs. If you suffer harm (or benefit, I suspect) from your answer, then yes, a law has been broken.

It's also not true that there are questions that cannot be asked during an interview. Just about any non-discriminatory question can be asked- if she had asked if you were a dirty palestinian, and were charged higher rent or were not given the appartment, you'd have much more evidence in winning a case.

However, without harm, there is no crime here.

It's often misunderstood. You have the right to decline to answer these questions and suffer no consequence. You have the right to answer and suffer no consequences. They have the right to ask.

The same goes for similar questions in job interviews and other areas where you're protected from discrimination. As long as you're not punished for your answer or lack of answer, you have no standing to complain.
 
It's common for Jewish people who suspect that someone might be Jewish to want to know if it's true, because it instantly establishes a bond and feeling of camaraderie. But as Ham-milton points out, answering "no" does not necessarily mean that the person posing the question will have a negative reaction. Most Jewish people don't discriminate against non-Jews, especially in a commercial transaction. Also, apartment rents are typically set by the size of the apartment, rather than their location in the building. So my inkling is that you did not suffer discrimination; if it were there, she would probably have simply turned down your application.

I don't know whether the question is illegal per se, but as others have pointed out if there has been discrimination because of it, then it's undoubtedly illegal.
 
Some classes are protected. I suppose "Jewish" is protected under religion?

This article is interesting from my area. Florida has a lot of New Yorkers who come down here and the natives hate it. This guy bought some land and insists on no yankees. LOL



snip for good stuff:

If you think these rules are silly or extreme, consider a deed-restricted development in Jasper County, near Hilton Head, S.C. In 1998 a developer bought 1,700 acres, a property called Delta Plantation, to subdivide for homes. The official covenants, as recorded in the county auditor's office, say the property may never be sold or leased "to any person or entity that may be described as being part of the Yankee race."

The definition of "Yankee race" is anyone or anything "born or formed north of the Mason-Dixon Line" or anyone who has lived north of the line continuously for a year.

It also says "no person with the last name of Sherman or born up north whose last name includes letters that can be rearranged to spell Sherman shall ever own, lease, enter, occupy, walk upon or hold any interest" in the property.

The covenants say the restrictions "are necessary to ensure that the Yankees will never own or control large tracts of land that rightfully belong in Southern hands again or again."

Can such deed restrictions be enforced?

Yes, says Fort Lauderdale-based attorney Gary Poliakoff, whose firm, Becker & Poliakoff, represents more than 4,300 condo and homeowner associations in Florida.

Federal, state and county laws say only that you can't discriminate against those in "protected classes," he said. These include race, religion, national origin, sex, handicap and family status (unless the community is over 55). In Broward County, sexual orientation is also protected.

Those in other classes can be discriminated against. For example, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against lawyers, he said.

Since Yankees aren't protected, "I see no reason why the restriction [would] not be upheld," Poliakoff said.

The South Carolina property owner never enforced his deed, Yankees have bought property and all is well on the Delta Plantation.

But the deed remains in the official records of Jasper County.

Staff Writer Joe Kollin discusses condo and homeowner association issues every other Wednesday. Contact him at [email protected] or 954-385-7913 in Broward or 561-243-6503 in Palm Beach County. Kollin has covered condo and homeowner association issues in the Sun-Sentinel since 1986.
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Original article is here: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/sfl-flbcondocol0528sbmay28,0,7785318.column
 
^Update forthcoming (nothing exciting) but to go a bit off topic: Lysis, are you from South Florida? I grew up there. :D
 
um... if there's a "yankee race" per their wording, then it's invalid, no?

the sherman thing is odd, though...
 
Ham-milton said:
The same goes for similar questions in job interviews and other areas where you're protected from discrimination. As long as you're not punished for your answer or lack of answer, you have no standing to complain.
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And how will you know if you were punished or not? The landlord/employer will merely tell you, :someone else was more qualified" or "a better fit" or "you had a late car payment in 2004 that is worrisome" or "your cat/dog is a problem."

You can be punished and never know it. That is what makes enforcing this stuff so difficult.

Can we ever know what is really in someones heart?

I would not rent to an illegal immigrant and I would find a legit reason not to do so.
 
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