• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Is ignorance bliss?

Foreigner

Foreigner

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
8,603
Location
The Cosmos
I've come across more than one highly intelligent person who enjoyed how much they knew and understood, but at the same time acknowledged that it opened up their world to a different kind of suffering. It revealed to them a lot about what's wrong with the world, yet showed them that no one person has the power to change it all.

So I ask, are ignorant people necessarily happier? Or is this question too general?

Does knowledge come with personal consequences, such as being able to see more flaws in everything? Is it a "pandora's box" that opens the experiencer up to more complex problems that might not be solveable?

Could knowledge itself be a progress trap that dooms the experiencer to conflicted perceptions?
 
Definitely interesting questions.

One thing I can comment on, is that no- ignorance isn't necessarily bliss. It can lead to a lot of problems. Then again, I guess if they were completely unaware of everything/ignorant, they wouldn't quite experience the problems the same way, or as "problems", subjectively.

I would say that maybe it might allow a blissful state to be with them... That is until the diseases that they are unaware of terminate their life, at which point, their possible "bliss" ends.

The path of knowledge, and awareness, may be arduous, but it may also provide a way to attain a more lasting, comprehensive, and better state, of bliss (or, something).

I tend to think there is a level where one can reach, beyond the complexity, but that the complexity and "higher levels" of suffering may at times be necessary, to go through, to make sure they don't fall back down.

In a way, it may be like constructing a temple.

Still, I can still see there may be questions with that.
 
Last edited:
As the famous quote goes:

"Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that suffering reaches its supreme point." (Arthur Schopenhauer)
Click to expand...
 
Pain from increased knowledge only really becomes a problem when you identify with it too much. Eventually you'll come to accept it, unless you wish to fully identify with it and create a radioshow and charge people lots of money for stupid shit, eg InfoWars. Once you accept it is beyond your control and it is not your story, there is no more pain.
 
are ignorant people happier? happiness is relative; you know what some say: more money more problems...

consequences and experience bring a different result of intellectuality, wisdom. wisdom gained from experience is irrefutable compared to knowledge granted from academics; stories can change but consequences remain the same.

i agree with -=SS=-, acceptance is what alleviates ignorance and brings joy. ignorance will help one to approach circumstances innocently(an example of dharma), but once those circumstances become unavoidable, and if there is no acceptance of them(an example of karma), then that joy or bliss is gone. in the grand scheme of things ignorance is not a friend, if you keep repeating the same mistakes and without learning, those scenarios will keep presenting themselves until handled properly.

that is the difference between accepting that you know nothing and refusing to learn. knowing you know nothing there is more to be learned, no matter how much you thought you knew.

practice humility and surrendering to find more truth.
 
being comfortable with knowledge is ignoring the fact that all of that knowledge is ultimately based on systems, concepts and ideas which lead to unknowns. the question is moot. ignorance and bliss are both perpetual.

...i think
 
panic in paradise said:
i agree with -=SS=-, acceptance is what alleviates ignorance and brings joy.
Click to expand...

I don't think acceptance necessarily brings joy, at least not a continous stream of it. Initially you may a slight rise as you free your mind from a particular system of thought, but it's short lived. There's no real point in lamenting over anything, it's childish in a way.. really a person should go on to ask themselves questions about the nature of man and then who he/she is also. They should go on and act, be productive.

Think of it the other way. If this world was a paradise and not a hell, should one get caught up in it and constantly masturbate to the joys of it all, rather than lament the sorrows of it all? Eventually you would see it is pointless, and realize you should be questioning your direction and then acting/being productive. Exactly the same as before. Getting caught up in it all is a waste of energy.. do something about yourself or the situation, don't just sit in your intellectual armchair feeling sorry for things that you're not even connected to.
 
I don't think acceptance is the key to joy or bliss, neither is ignorance. If in Buddhism we accept that our life is suffering and we accept that suffering and realize we are just parts of much bigger things then maybe we can reach some level of fleeting happiness but as SS suggests, it's fleeting at best.

I sometimes wonder how other people feel about the world and i can see, just out walking around, that certain people are ignorant or oblivious to many things that i am not, like their social status, their future. I can pretty much work out in seconds after seeing someone where they stand in society, and i wonder if they know they are in that position as well.

If someone less ignorant than me were to point this stuff out to me i'd realize it, I'd tell them i already fucking know, do these other people know as well then? cause if ignorance is not bliss than there are many humans that suffer as much as me or even more and that kind of changes my view of the world. If these lowly people are ignorant and just don't know any better than i'd be a lot more calm about it because their suffering is limited by their ignorance but i don't think that's really the case for people.

Ignorance probably is bliss but complete knowledge is knowing the full spectrum of all things and with that comes a hefty mental toll for a human anyway, to know the absolute highs of life and the absolute lows, it really skews your vision, as most drug addicts know. To know the inequality in this world and just how fucked up things are won't bring anyone bliss IMO, maybe if you are that special person that can somehow make change in this then you are empowered by these ideas but i realize these things and i know i don't really have much of a chance to correcting these things and will willfully follow the very corrupt system i hate just because it will satisfy my need for money and material things. I guess that's the brave new world. Knowing this terrible shit and just accepting it or even enjoying it.

anyway, interesting question and i'm not sure i made any sense but i was thinking about this for most of the day.
 
RobotRipping said:
I don't think acceptance is the key to joy or bliss, neither is ignorance. If in Buddhism we accept that our life is suffering and we accept that suffering and realize we are just parts of much bigger things then maybe we can reach some level of fleeting happiness but as SS suggests, it's fleeting at best.

I sometimes wonder how other people feel about the world and i can see, just out walking around, that certain people are ignorant or oblivious to many things that i am not, like their social status, their future. I can pretty much work out in seconds after seeing someone where they stand in society, and i wonder if they know they are in that position as well.

If someone less ignorant than me were to point this stuff out to me i'd realize it, I'd tell them i already fucking know, do these other people know as well then? cause if ignorance is not bliss than there are many humans that suffer as much as me or even more and that kind of changes my view of the world. If these lowly people are ignorant and just don't know any better than i'd be a lot more calm about it because their suffering is limited by their ignorance but i don't think that's really the case for people.

Ignorance probably is bliss but complete knowledge is knowing the full spectrum of all things and with that comes a hefty mental toll for a human anyway, to know the absolute highs of life and the absolute lows, it really skews your vision, as most drug addicts know. To know the inequality in this world and just how fucked up things are won't bring anyone bliss IMO, maybe if you are that special person that can somehow make change in this then you are empowered by these ideas but i realize these things and i know i don't really have much of a chance to correcting these things and will willfully follow the very corrupt system i hate just because it will satisfy my need for money and material things. I guess that's the brave new world. Knowing this terrible shit and just accepting it or even enjoying it.

anyway, interesting question and i'm not sure i made any sense but i was thinking about this for most of the day.
Click to expand...

you cannot ever expect to achieve true bliss in your life if you cannot accept it.

"bliss" is a much different thing then intellectual contentment, though ;) through being content with the self, what is possible for you is then able to be made real.
 
well logically no lol but if i knew there was true bliss to be experienced i'd certainly accept it. If it's simply a matter of having that realization well then i guess i'd be feeling blissful now but i still feel the same.

I don't think anyone achieves true bliss, does that sound wrong?

I get the idea that accepting suffering leads to no suffering but in Buddhism still happiness is ever fleeting, it's just a brief period of time in between the suffering, am i supposed to accept that as well? that happiness is not real? not everything? not the point of my existence?
I don't think being content with myself is even useful, if i am content then i don't do anything because i am content, if i am constantly needing something more then i am constantly trying to find more, intellectually. Like for me, going back to school to study electronics after already having a degree, if i were content with my degree then i'd have some shitty job but since i wasn't content, i opened up many more possibilities.

i guess the same relates to happiness, if i were always happy or even blissful, i wouldn't seek out anything else. Since i don't feel happy, i seek out that feeling, it's what keeps me going, keeps me progressing, keeps changing and shaping my reality.

not to derail the thread, just trying to interpret the above :)
 
is kind of a rhetorical question...
:p

of course there is bliss to be achieved in life, Samadhi is the sanskrit term: once in that state and returning there is a great deal of knowledge brought back.

happiness is real, when you suffer and realize the extent of suffering in the world empathizing with the sufferings of others becomes a new source of contentment; the drive to help end suffering for others becomes overwhelming compassion. i see what you mean, being content can cause one to become complacent, but to be content as in self confident the emotional stability can be found to achieve more, or to be content not obstructing the life-path others are on, allowing their failures and achievements to play out in their time, as is.
 
Psyduck said:
As the famous quote goes:

"Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that suffering reaches its supreme point." (Arthur Schopenhauer)
Click to expand...

Hmm interesting quote, in parallel, perhaps that is why the highest degree of the most intelligent being we can fathom - God - Jesus Christ - had to also suffer the most excruciating death imaginable.
 
i can imagine worse deaths. I'm positive worse deaths have occurred since the death of Jesus Christ lol. I think Socrates drinking hemlock is about the same or what happened to Galileo. Basically Jesus exemplifies the idea that you will be murdered/most certainly persecuted for going against the grain and in general that is something that has been true for a long ass time.

@pip: i see what you mean about self confidence, i guess we were kind of referring to different states of contentment with the self.
 
RobotRipping said:
i can imagine worse deaths. I'm positive worse deaths have occurred since the death of Jesus Christ lol.
Click to expand...

Have you ever watched "The Passion of The Christ" by Mel Gibson?

Sorry for posting off-topic, I should probably stick to pm :|
 
The way I see it, having greater knowledge of the world that makes you recognize suffering and how fucked up things can be isn't necessarily bad. I used to thing the world was fucked because I saw how many problems there are. I eventually stopped being so cynical and began seeing things differently. Yea, there are a lot of problems in the world, but things really aren't that bad. Imagine how great things will be once we fix the problems with the world. It just makes you realize how much potential we have for the future.
 
Alexander Shulgin said:
The way I see it, having greater knowledge of the world that makes you recognize suffering and how fucked up things can be isn't necessarily bad. I used to thing the world was fucked because I saw how many problems there are. I eventually stopped being so cynical and began seeing things differently. Yea, there are a lot of problems in the world, but things really aren't that bad. Imagine how great things will be once we fix the problems with the world. It just makes you realize how much potential we have for the future.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I'm with Ecclesiastes on this one.

Ecclesiastes 1:14 said:
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Click to expand...
 
"It's all fucked up. But it's not serious."
A mantra given to me by a psychologist I had a session with recently.

I call into question the idea that knowledge only brings pain. The Gnostics ("knowing ones") and Buddhists have long taught that seeing the world in all its ugly glory is a key step in transcending the inherent pain of sentient existence. Now, the journey there probably involves some serious pits of despair, frustration, and emotional numbness. But I do believe there are people who have achieved great inner peace through the pursuit of knowledge.

Ignorance is bittersweet at best. What you don't know about you don't spend time worrying about, and that's all fine and dandy so long as it doesn't affect you. But once something you don't know at all afflicts you, you'll do nothing but worry about it. Until you either become informed (i.e. cease to be ignorant) about it, or it stops afflicting you, whichever comes first.
 
life is such an illusion its not even funny.... enjoy the ride my friends... thats the point :)


when you realize your true nature there is a place beyond all suffering and pain and that is bliss; Ive been able to access this altered state of conscious temporarily as being in that state all the time is happening NOW just outside this dimension/reality...

ignorance is definitely not the bliss im talking about;

but everything is subjective to personal experience;;;

haha i cannot even explain what i mean at ALL words do no justice :( oh well i tried

rule 62
 
The awareness of ignorance does not equal intelligence.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top