Is drug dealing unethical/immoral?

[Soso78]

^ precisely, but i have no time for bs and when it comes to my substances, i make it very clear from the start, anytime my coke plugs late, i can expect a few grams extra, and nothing ever needs to be said about it either which i appreciate but expect, when someone decides they want to be late to make money, there's 100 people that can take their place that'll be more than happy to accommodate you on time, trust me but the fact of constantly being told 'hey we've got __' or 'come downstairs,i'ma give you something since i'm over here anyways' can cpntribute to drug use so, give and take in the long run,ya' know?

Stay safe
~Zonxx

Ur dealer gives u a few extra grams of coke when he late?

 

[JessFR]

True. I was watching an episode of drugs inc. and some Central American dealers were arrested with heroin, coke, and pot and some police officer tried to claim that if someone smokes pot that people had to die in order for it to be smuggled into North America. But this is not true as a lot of people in North America grow it outdoors or inside their home, and now in lots of states and countries it is legal to grow pot.

Even if it were true. I think it's irrelevant.

There is a LOT of blame to go around for these state of affairs.

The users share a bit of the blame, dealers share a bit of the blame, society as a whole shares a bit of the blame.

But more than anyone else, and in as much as any one person or small group is responsible for all those deaths. It's the political leaders.

It is completely unrealistic to just expect people to stop using drugs. It'll never happen. It's completely unrealistic to expect people to not keep trying to make and sell drugs, that'll also never happen.

What CAN happen is how we approach that phenomenon. We could stop this insane war on drugs, we could create legal, regulated drug supplies. And very quickly government could reduce an enormous amount of the damage, and take the profits that currently go to organized crime.

And with that profit we could invest in better health care programs, saving even more lives.

Government has the resources to see the futility of this, and the power to act on it and act like leaders, but they don't. That makes them first and foremost responsible.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I do not use any drugs now except for caffeine, but as someone from the end of Gen X I would and have never texted dealers via mobile phone about using or buying drugs, etc. and later when chat programs and internet chatting came around, as well as email I never discussed buying or using drugs via email or instant message.

I have seen way too many people get busted by police this way, and they would also add in charges of the person buying or selling drugs via a communication network, as well as posession, and this would add onto the jail or prison sentence.

The police have to get a warrant to get such information and as a buyer and not a seller I’m not too worried about them chasing me down and going to all the trouble. I’ll admit that if I was a dealer I too would find it sketchy and only use phone calls.

 

[Soso78]

If ur selling drugs it’s best to use people as buffers. thats why runners are used. I’d find someone that would put in the work. If someone’s getting robbed or arrested it’s better if it ain’t u.

dealers are scum.

 

[JessFR]

The police have to get a warrant to get such information and as a buyer and not a seller I’m not too worried about them chasing me down and going to all the trouble. I’ll admit that if I was a dealer I too would find it sketchy and only use phone calls.

In my experience, the primary defense used has been to keep drug discussions deniable and ambiguous. Though most of what I've seen wasn't nearly deniable enough were it ever to be used in court. Generally I've very rarely arranged or seen arranged drug deals by text. Its almost always been by voice.

Also some dealers I've had changed their numbers pretty regularly.

All that said though, it still seems crazy to me the amount of risks that are taken given what's possible with modern encryption.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The police have to get a warrant to get such information and as a buyer and not a seller I’m not too worried about them chasing me down and going to all the trouble. I’ll admit that if I was a dealer I too would find it sketchy and only use phone calls.

Are there any Western countries where police actually go to such trouble to investigate individual buyers/users? In Australia it seems your regular user/buyer only gets busted by happenstance when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time and get searched, are caught in the act of using, hit by a random drug test or bailed up by a sniffer dog.

Edit: that said there was recently a big bust of people using a dial-a-dealer coke delivery service - I expect some of them were from phone records.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I’ve just never seen anyone get implicated via text or messaging IRL. I’m a millennial and in my 10 years of buying stuff I’ve never seen anyone go down for texts, and definitely not buyers. Busting buyers is a waste of the police’s time, even stupid cops should know that.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

dealers are scum.

I’ve met very few ‘scummy’, dealers idk where you got that idea from. Most are cordial and friendly. They’re people just like you and me.

 

[Majiktouch]

They don't call it "the trap" for nothing! Think about it, predators hunt and "trap" prey. For some dealers though, it's all they've ever known. Survival of the fittest...

 

[Nicomorphinist]

It is a service provided for a demand which will always be there, so (caeteris paribus) the dealers are common carriers like long-distance and/or Less Than a Load lorry drivers and the telephone company,, and the only ethical questions are things like harmful cuts and other ways of ripping off and/or endangering the customer. Also, time, place & manner: I seriously doubt that there are pushers anywhere that look for kids as clients, for if they get picked up by the Man they will spill their guts relatively easily, and how many children pull down enough a year in salary to be a customer for regular 8-Balls, Decks, Doubs, 50 Pieces, 100 Pieces, any annual Buy 90 Get 10 Free promotion for bags of smack, or diverted 50 ml Dilaudid HP phials and compounding powder, both of which can go for well upwards of a €1000/$/£/C$/₺/10k HRK, SEK, or CHF/¥100k, CZK, HUR, or what have you?

Given what the US government is letting get into the clandestine and semi-clandestine sale and resale channels, the dealer or his or her supplier probably should be doing some quality control and there is no budget excuse for not so doing with fentanyl test strips, reagent test kits, and so forth readily available as well as testing services provided by some analytical labs and so forth.

Repackaging used syringes is certainly unethical.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Here meth is pushed onto everybody. Some gangs have kids selling meth on the corner to feed the kids addiction and to avoid the law while the adult makes a ton of money. This is truly immoral but a very big issue. More and more kids are getting into high purity chinese meth at 12-14 in NZ

 

[Soso78]

I’ve met very few ‘scummy’, dealers idk where you got that idea from. Most are cordial and friendly. They’re people just like you and me.

My experience has mainly been with crack and heroin dealers. Even the cordial and friendly ones are scum because they making money of addicts pain and suffering. They destroy lives and families

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

Drug selling = People get substances that they can do "crime" against themselves = nothing immoral in that

 

[JessFR]

My experience has mainly been with crack and heroin dealers. Even the cordial and friendly ones are scum because they making money of addicts pain and suffering. They destroy lives and families

This is a completely arbitrary distinction.

Why aren't the users scum for using when it hurts their loved ones? Or are they?

Is the government scum for enabling it?

Is everyone else scum for not stopping the government?

As I said earlier, there's plenty of blame to go around. Just targeting the dealers seems totally arbitrary to me. Especially when many of the dealers are dealing out of their own desperation.

 

[Soso78]

I’m not just targeting the dealers, the thread question is are dealers immoral/unethical and my answer is yes.
do u not think it’s immoral to sell heroin for example to a hopeless junkie that prob doesn’t even want to use anymore.

 

[JessFR]

I’m not just targeting the dealers, the thread question is are dealers immoral/unethical and my answer is yes.
do u not think it’s immoral to sell heroin for example to a hopeless junkie that prob doesn’t even want to use anymore.

No, I don't really. Because even if a big part of you doesn't want to use, it's on you to make that happen. You can reach out for support sure, and support can help, a LOT.

But it still has to be your decision, you still have to actually be ready to stop. And I think you can want to stop but not actually be ready to stop yet.

And simply not selling to someone isn't gonna be what makes them stop. They'll just find someone else.

If you brought it further into some hypothetical power to actually cut off all access to all drugs and addictive behaviors everywhere in the world, and gave that power to one person, then you could probably say that person is morally culpable.

But no, I don't think dealers are morally culpable for continuing to sell to users. There may be immoral actions taken in advancement of that, but I don't think just dealing in itself is immoral.

I don't blame tobacco companies for selling my cigarettes. I don't blame alcohol companies for selling alcohol to alcoholics. I don't blame my dealers for having dealt to me.

 

[Soso78]

No, I don't really. Because even if a big part of you doesn't want to use, it's on you to make that happen. You can reach out for support sure, and support can help, a LOT.

But it still has to be your decision, you still have to actually be ready to stop. And I think you can want to stop but not actually be ready to stop yet.

And simply not selling to someone isn't gonna be what makes them stop. They'll just find someone else.

If you brought it further into some hypothetical power to actually cut off all access to all drugs and addictive behaviors everywhere in the world, and gave that power to one person, then you could probably say that person is morally culpable.

But no, I don't think dealers are morally culpable for continuing to sell to users. There may be immoral actions taken in advancement of that, but I don't think just dealing in itself is immoral.

So a crack head mom wants to spend the money she has to feed her kids on rocks and let the kids go eithout. You wouldn’t feel anyway bad to sell her the rocks?
Obviously moms a cunt but the dealer isn’t immoral?
I wouldn’t do it. Would you?

 

[JessFR]

So a crack head mom wants to spend the money she has to feed her kids on rocks and let the kids go eithout. You wouldn’t feel anyway bad to sell her the rocks?
Obviously moms a cunt but the dealer isn’t immoral?
I wouldn’t do it. Would you?

No I wouldn't. But that's getting down into very specific territory. Yes there are probably specific scenarios you can come up with and that happen that could be said are immoral.

But this is a fairly general question, is dealing, in itself immoral. And I don't feel it is. Even if some specific circumstances involving dealing is.

For one thing, the dealer would have to be aware of this situation to be morally responsible. And generally they're not going to be. And I don't believe you're morally responsible for not always assuming a worst case scenario.

I gotta say though, while I personally wouldn't feel morally able to sell to someone in that hypothetical, it's doubtful that mother is going to feed her kids regardless. Chances are she'll go to someone else, perhaps someone less reliable. Or do something more desperate.

It's not a simple black and white situation. When you get down to that degree of specifics there's often no easy answers.

Once again, I feel most inclined to blame wider society and the government. For not taking a more proactive role in making sure those kids are looked after, regardless of what their mother does.

 

[Soso78]

No I wouldn't. But that's getting down into very specific territory. Yes there are probably specific scenarios you can come up with and that happen that could be said are immoral.

But this is a fairly general question, is dealing, in itself immoral. And I don't feel it is. Even if some specific circumstances involving dealing is.

Ye I suppose it’s not black or white.
I wouldn’t class someone selling weed for example as immoral, but u get to meth crack and heroin/opiates and in my book ur scum.
Could have a hundred customers that are happy to use but they WILL be selling to someone to someone where by doing so is causing harm pain suffering.
I’d rather do something else to earn money.
Some of my mates were heroin dealers and I think the same of them.
even selling to someone that is enjoying using and can afford to is immoral because there’s a chance they gonna fuck themselves up.

 

[JessFR]

Ye I suppose it’s not black or white.
I wouldn’t class someone selling weed for example as immoral, but u get to meth crack and heroin/opiates and in my book ur scum.
Could have a hundred customers that are happy to use but they WILL be selling to someone to someone where by doing so is causing harm pain suffering.
I’d rather do something else to earn money.
Some of my mates were heroin dealers and I think the same of them.
even selling to someone that is enjoying using and can afford to is immoral because there’s a chance they gonna fuck themselves up.

There's a chance that if you don't sell to them, they'll go to someone else who will rip them off.

There's a chance that you'll increase their desperation and by extension their destructive actions.

I can perfectly understand coming to the attitude of simply not wanting any part of it at all, and that's the view I suspect I'd come to if I ever were to deal drugs. But ultimately once you get into a gray enough area, the responsibility is first with the addict.

With the hypothetical crackhead mom, that's a specific outcome that in your hypothetical the dealer knows will happen. That's why I feel it is more directly immoral.

But once you get out to all the various possibilities and hypotheticals, that an unknown number of your customers are likely being harmed to an unknown degree, that's where I think the moral issues become more strictly on the user.

Though, really I have no desire to blame individuals at all. I blame myself for my actions, I blame collective groups for collective behaviors.

But I don't tend to blame other individuals for individual actions unless it's super cut and dry. And generally where desperation is concerned, it's not so clear cut.