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Is depression related to intelligence?

what cokeboy said above is what i meant in a shorter version. agree completely.
i think that 'insane' people are not insane, they are just using a different part of the brain that is undiscovered and uncharted. and most 'insane' people are of high intelligence and don't understand and/or comprehend what's going on in the 'normal' world and that makes them insane.
therefore as cokeboy said genius and insanity are kissing cousins.
Xeph:
as for the math/science reference to analytical thinking and processes, analytical geometry, analytical chemistry; you have to go way above and beyond the standard way of solving problems and thinking of solutions in those two fields.
going above and beyond inside your brain while you are depressed isn't a fun journey - so that's why i said that it's better for the math and science but not for trying to help yourself. really, it doesnt work all that well and makes it worse. but maybe that's just me. i try to be a positive person and pull myself out of it as best i can when i feel it coming on, but when depression has its claws in you it's alot harder to think about how to get yourself out of it. maybe you dont have an analytical mind so it's harder for you to understand all the thoughts and questions that go through the mind over and over.
once again, not attacking, just stating. :)
 
Does anybody here know anything about IQ vs EQ (emotional intelligence)? I don't know much, other than that it's probably relevant to this thread.
I want to clarify, if what I've said so far has suggested that I think there is an "easy fix" to depression - I definitely do not think that. I have a lot of respect for people who have the strength to beat depression, and I understand and empathise with people that don't.
lucky_charms, this ought to go without saying, but you don't know me at all, so you're not in a position to say (as quoted here)
"maybe you dont have an analytical mind so it's harder for you to understand all the thoughts and questions that go through the mind over and over."
I find that offensive, regardless of whether you add the words "not attacking, just stating". If you disagree with me, that's fine, but I'd prefer it if you just tell me why you disagree and leave it at that, rather than disregarding my opinion based totally on a statement that you have no idea about (that is, "you don't have an analytical mind").
I believe we each have to take responsibility for our own happiness. I for one don't want to live my life as a victim - "oh, poor me, look what life dealt me" - I'd rather think "this sucks, but I can learn from this experience and grow as a person, and be proud of myself for getting through this bad time". Maybe that sounds corny, but it's better than "poor me...".
 
I would have to question any study that correlates intelligence with depression because it would seem to fail to consider the fact that more intelligent people might be more likely to recognize themselves as depressed and therefore appear in treatment with greater frequency.
Xeph: IQ and EQ are both seriously, seriously flawed tests. Theoretically they measure intelligence and empathy, so they're somewhat related. (empathy = depression? Perhaps a topic for another thread.)
[ 18 April 2002: Message edited by: themagicbean ]
 
themagicbean - While both types of tests are flawed, the tests represent our "best guess". We have a bad knee-jerk reaction to these tests because deep down we don't like to be classified.
When it comes to intelligence testing, the truth remains that people who are immediately recognizable as "gifted" perform well on these tests, and people you know are "challenged" without needing to measure it, do not. They may be flawed, but the tests are usually right.
With social testing it's easier, and often more correct (according to a psychiatrist friend of mine), because the goal is softer. They only try to seek out recognizable social patterns.
Merely being imperfect doesn't make testing invalid.
 
The tests can help show some patterns but they are not valid measurements of empathetic or intellectual potential or performance. This is because the tests are filled with cultural biases that skewer the results. If my cognitive psych book wasn't at home I'd cite some nice examples but it is, so ... maybe next time.
 
Validity is basically the degree that something measures what it's supposed to. All the validity of an intelligence test depends on your operational definition of intelligence to begin with. These are usually set out in advance before any of these tests are ever constructed. Most that are given in school now are made to measure those concepts that predict success in school and later in college. Thus, their definition of intelligence factors this in. If you notice, hardly any tests call themselves "intelligence tests" anymore. If they have it in the title at all, they are shortened. Thus, the WAIS (weschler adult intelligence scale), etc. Many go the other direction and say that the things we are testing are not intelligence, but achievement (such as the K-ABC) The term IQ is outdated as well now. Some tests still use it, but it's not even a quotient any more as that was found to be unreliable, b/c proportions changed over the age of the child. More often you find "composite scores" or something similar.
Okay..back to the original question. It has occured to me sometimes that "depression" sometimes seems to be a sort of luxury, that only people that are able to get the diagnosis, or the help are able to apply that label to themselves. This is not to make any judgement on the people that are making it. It just seems that people that are in a lower class, or not as intelligent just do not feel they are able to have any help or reasons for their feelings on that. Sure, they could feel like not getting out of bed, or forsaking whatever, but they also *feel* that they cannot do that. That is not how life goes, and so many people are counting on them. I do think this might lead to a different kind of problem, more of a longer term milder unhappiness, than a deeper depression for which one would seek treatment. This just seems to be my observations from some people I have worked with.
 
sheesh xeph - i wasnt trying to offend you with that statement. i know i don't know you, and i disagreed with your opinion because i didnt think you had the analytical mind or you would understand what i was talking about. and that was my opinion, based on what you wrote in your posts, not you yourself, because i don't know you. Speaking to someone about this topic in person (or any other topic which has the capacity for great discussion) and typing about it on message boards can lead to misunderstandings very easily. i'm not on here to attack or offend people, i'm on here to possibly gain answers and ideas and maybe even help other people that might be going through the same thing.
people have different opinions so we should all agree to disagree about them, and know that we all don't think alike about the same subjects, so there's bound to be disagreements.
i'm sorry if i offended you, it wasn't my intention.
 
Thinking analytically, I don't see how we can make a correlation between the two, because we raise new questions and then get strayed into different paths and more complexities and variables, and then question how people define meanings, etc. etc. Does it even matter?
My opinions to whats been said:
I definately don't think intelligent people are usually freaks (i've seen it often in the other direction but thats not the point)
Sure, if you're intelligent you can be burdened with the "not fit in" which could help cause depression. The "not fit in" would be the correlation, not the intelligence.
Here's one situation that I know is real: Having the person you look up to or try to be, is very intelligent, but you're not so you're depressed from failure.
Finally, for you analytical people like me, here's a link to mull over: Its called Rank Theory, a theory of how depression and anxiety is an evolutionary result of the need for social class differences, and how depression only still exists because of "survival of the fittest". Evolutionary psychology and the New Darwinian thought has exciting viewpoints on many "human" things that people debate over.
http://www.hedweb.com/huxley/rankmood/
 
Originally posted by *=Regulator=*:
your link doesn't work
yah, looks like the hedweb.com server is down right now, so just go to google.com and look it up and then view the cache of the website
[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: dieseltwin ]
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I don't mean to sound crude but when I was tripping hard on LSD i made a realization that "Dumb is fun" and I think that the more intellegnt the person is the harder it is to have fun doing things, i don't know that might have just been the acid making me thing that way.
 
I kind of believe in the more intellegent the person is, the more prone to being screwed up they are, at least with my experiences. First was my ex-best friend...absolutely brilliant guy, but never was into the whole higher education thing. Maybe he got bored or couldnt fit in to school. Anyway, I know depression got him due to a few bad things in his life, and he killed himself. Another one was a friend I had that was one of those rare relationships I have encountered that I can feel on the same level with someone. Anyway, she had her issues, and to deal with them the alcohol/drugs came into play. Too bad the emotional stuff came around with our relationship at shall we say the wrong place and the wrong time killing that friendship :( And finally I know with my self (supposed 146 IQ) I have a real tendancy to dwell on bad things that happened in my life and how they affect how I am today, and it really gets me down at times. I dont know if it is my past that gets me or maybe the drugs messing with the brain chemistry, but I believe that the whole intellegence/depression issue does have some merit. It just seems that the people that arent all that bright or just average tend to be so much happier than the smarter people I have known.
 
To asses whether "intelligence" and depression is correalated, one must first define "intelligence"...which is nigh on impossible without resorting to clinical definitions that lack the true meaning of what you are trying to say.
It has been shown that stress hormones and depression DO correspond. Meaning that "the more you THINK, the more stress hormones you produce, and this results in an elevated level of cortisole in your blood." This COULD mean that "intelligent" people think faster and MORE, and thus are more prone to suffer from depression and anxiety.
[ 26 April 2002: Message edited by: Sir Real ]
 
All this bullshit about defining "intelligence" only moves the focus away from the original topic.
We all have a non-defined, fuzzy definition in our minds, and it's pretty consistent from person to person. Rather than nitpicking, just accept that definition that rings true to you, and address the topic.
Incidently, "depends what you mean by..." is a very old trick often used by insecure people to make themselves seem more "intelligent" than they really are.
 
If I was to accept the "fuzzy definition I have in my mind", I would say no, "intelligence" (and I insist on the quotation marks) does not correspond to depression. By depression I mean the clinical definition, if that is acceptable to you.
There are about 7 different forms of intelligence, including musical, emotional and mathematical intelligence - so which intelligence are you talking about? The musical one? Which would mean that Mozart was one depressed motherfucker...
The first thing to do when having an "intelligent" conversation is to define the terms. This often results in the topic being more accessible and the result more believeable...
 
Sir real you are missing the point.
I know there are many different types of intelligence and many different definitions but there is a universally agreed apon definition as has been suggested.
Think of someone you consider to be intelligent . Not "intelligent in one sense and not in another" or "musically brilliant but hopeless at maths". Just someone you would call "intelligent" without any qualifications on the description. Now, do you think people with similar qualities are more likely to be depressed?
If you can't do that then take intelligence to mean "ability to score highly on IQ tests".
 
Sir Real - Breaking down "intelligence" into a whole bunch of subdivisions and nitpicking the terms to death doesn't make this discussion either accessible or believable.
All it does is expand the scope so far that the discussion cannot be contained in a thread. You want to write a thesis? Feel free to proceed down that path. It never ends.
Want to discuss it here? Then ditch the subdivision tactics and contribute in a way that won't make the whole thing unworkable.
 
There are about 7 different forms of intelligence, including musical, emotional and mathematical intelligence - so which intelligence are you talking about? The musical one? Which would mean that Mozart was one depressed motherfucker...
A link between intelligence and depression does not mean every single person who has one trait must have the other, so Mozart is irrellevant.
Everyone is talking about their own definition of intelligence, and I think that it probably is related to particular kinds of intelligence more than others. Eg. emotionally intelligent people should probably be the members of society least likely to get depressed. But a relationship between them does not mean one causes the other, its just as likely that some other aspect of an individuals mind causes both.
As for the seven types of intelligence, they are likely to be interrelated anyway. I do think depression may be seen more in people who display different intelligences. I seem to have good pattern recall ability, which can help with mathematical, musical, memory and spatial tasks. It could also be this ability that makes me remember negative things more often than others might (for example).
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"Then ditch the subdivision tactics and contribute in a way that won't make the whole thing unworkable. "
My reason for posting was that these posts are completely unusable for anything other than anecdotal evidence. There is a point scientific method, and you are missing it. This post IS unworkable, I was simply trying to point it out in a constructive way.
About the 7 forms of intelligence: the point is that they are NOT interrelated. This is generally acknowledged by anyone in the psychiatric field.
And if I was to take "intelligence" to mean "IQ", then the answer is simple: NO, there is no evidence that IQ and depression is interlinked.
 
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