Is depression related to intelligence?

[*=Regulator=*]

We all know the phrase "ignorance is bliss". From my experiences it seems that the more intelligent a person is the more susceptible they are to depression and associated nuerotic disorders.
It seems that less intelligent people lack the 'ability' to get depressed.
I contend that intelligence enables highly analytical thought procceses that lead to negative thougths and in turn depression. Isn't it always the smart people that are highly cynical?
Do you think that intelligence, for the most part, can be correlated with depression?
[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: *=Regulator=* ]

 

[braincandie]

To some extent, yes, studies have shown that intelligence does correlate positively with depression...
however,

It seems that less intelligent people lack the 'ability' to get depressed
it's not a matter of an 'ability' but merely the fact that with intelligence, comes the knowledge of possible diseases, world wars, poverty, what have you - therefore causing them to be more susceptible to it. You also have to take into consideration many other variables, like personality, environment, etc.

 

[2.718 enngh]

with intelligence, comes the knowledge of possible diseases, world wars, poverty, what have you - therefore causing them to be more susceptible to it
i don't know about you, but whenever i get depressed, it's never about any kind of global issue such as the ones mentioned about, more to do with some sense of the worthlessness of existance and, i guess, myself.
and to tie this back to the origional discussion, yea, it's kinda strange that i get depressed about my worthlessness when i'm the smartest person that i know (and i'm doing a supposedly difficult course at uni).
i can't speack for others, but yea, i get depressed quite often and i'm quite intelligent, so that is some evidence.
maybe intelligent people realise that even if they do achieve all that they want to (or are supposed to want to) achieve, nothing is going to change, no answer to life is going to be learned, they are not going to see why life really is wonderfull, wheras less intelligent people just concentrate on their goals and are happy in the "knowledge" that once these are achieved, they will be happy -> a nice little trick actually, being happy because you mistakenly think that you will be happy in the future !
or maybe less inteligent people are equally depressed but just don't talk about it ?

 

[AYANNA aka BEATIFUL]

I just had to reply to this ?. For years I have trully belived that intelligence fucks you up there is no other way to put it.
I am speaking here from personall experince. a little back ground for you...Growing up I have always been looked at as the one who got the brains and the looks in my family..I skipped 2nd grade read by the time I was 3 and could do math in kindergarten..Well about the time that I reached 12 or 13 I begin to be really screwed in the head. I found myself submerging myself in pot and alchol even at that age. Well about this time something in me decided that I did not want to learn any more and I kind of shut down..that only lasted for so long because my parents were not having any of that..So then comes high school again I'm like straight A's debate team homecoming princess and all that shit well i tell you, half way threw my JR year I developed agrophopia so bad I had to be home schooled for the rest of that year. Not only that I did not leave my house for about 18 months..(the only time I left it was to go to the doctor because I was convined I was dying,,I cold not eat or drink anything unless some one did first because I was convined that some person had put cynide in it or what ever, also i was convinced that if i took a step outside some type of gas would kill me instantly,)Hell I was almost commited to a nut house but my insurence would not pay for it...(((Once I called 911 after taking advil because I thought it was laced with something))) any way after much therapy and use of meth (belive it or not) I am much better..But man for years I have known that if I would have continued with formal education (after 3 years of college), I would be so fucked in the head and no one can tell me different...
I know that was a long one but back to your question yes the smarter you are the more your prone to mental illness I dont care what any one says..To much intelligence is not a good thing....
[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: AYANNA aka BEATIFUL ]
[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: AYANNA aka BEATIFUL ]
[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: AYANNA aka BEATIFUL ]

 

[Xeph]

I'm not so sure about the idea that intelligent people are more likely to be depressed, but maybe that depends on the definition of 'depressed'.
In my opinion, severely depressed people often become a little irrational - really sorry, I'm not trying to offend anyone here - in that they may often not see an end to their depression, or believe the only way out is suicide, etc.
An analytical person ought really to try and analyse themselves, and the way they themselves think about the world.
Sometimes we cannot change the things that happen to us, but we *can* change the way we think about / deal with these things.
I guess it depends on the cause of the depression, but in many cases depression can be helped by changing the way you think about things, and teaching yourself not to think in the same patterns that lead you into the downward spiral.
For these reasons, I believe that an intelligent person ought to be more equipped to defend themselves from depression. (I'm generalising - I know that's not always the case! Every circumstance is different).
Intelligence should be applied to life, not just to school or work... maybe intelligent people are more susceptible to depression, but then surely they should be more able to fight it.
Just my opinion

 

[apollo]

i was branded a "thinker" from a young age... not necessarily intelligent, i simply think into things to a higher level than most. i'm overly analytical. i get enveloped in my own thoughts often. yes, i'm often thinking cynical, depressing thoughts about the hopeless nature of human life. i get extremely depressed quite easily, i'm prone to suicidal thoughts as i simply can't handle my own mind... all because i think far too far into the smallest of things.
i certainly agree with this, seeing as i relate to it on a personal level

I contend that intelligence enables highly analytical thought procceses that lead to negative thougths and in turn depression. Isn't it always the smart people that are highly cynical?
on the contrary, i think it takes the same level of intelligence to be happy & enjoy ones self despite the depressing side of life as it does to get lost in it (the depressing side of life).
i think depression and intelligence have as much in common as happiness and intelligence.

 

[*Venus*]

Like some of you, I would consider myself fairly intellectual, although only slightly above average academically. I too, overanalize pretty much everything, and to be honest its done nothing but make me depressed.
My boyfriend of three years, whom i love to death, isnt very intelligent. He is on the lower end of the spectrum per say. But he is almost never depressed. The other night I was lying down on the floor with him, in silence, and I asked him why he rarely begins a conversation with me. Communication is important to me, and I wanted to understand his reasoning. He just said that he prefers not to get into deep talks. I asked why and he said, because it just complicates things.
In a way Ive learned a lot from him. By not talking, he cant go very deep into things and therefore complicate anything. While I on the other hand, make everything complex. Its almost as if he's protecting himself from depression by not thinking/talking about negative things. He literally will not bring himself to talk about anything negative. Its weird, but I understand why now.
Im not really sure why i wrote all of that, sorry..it just seemed to fit the topic. Have a wonderful evening!

 

[sparklr]

'intellegent' individuals are usually freaks.
freaks usually don't have many friends and feel abnormal and weird.
when one feels abnormal and weird, they tend to question the basic structure of
things. people also are self-preserving, they will reroute their cognitive processes
around what is normal.
someone without very many friends will question the value of social contact and
popularity and start to overly value their own intellegence to overcompensate.
so there's this smart freak that has cognitively restructured his thought process
from a very young age. and whatever isolated activity they've decided to value, they
excel in because they are 'intellegent'.
when they've become more well-adjusted, they still have this
pattern of thought that they've used since they were very young. and many lack
the social and emotional capacities that have been laying dormant for fear of
rejection.
yes, this person will have a proclivity towards depression.
but the truly intellegent person will see this and begin to try and understand
what they want as a living, breathing, loving human and break down some of the
thought patterns that prevent them from understanding these things because there's
more certainty in thinking they are 'intellegent'. It's about balance, my friend.

on the contrary, i think it takes the same level of intelligence to be happy & enjoy ones self despite the depressing side of life as it does to get lost in it

 

[*chaoscat*]

I believe that often depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain (eg.low serotonin), which causes you to only see the negative side of any situation.
I find that a lot of my intelligence seems to be caused from having a very fast "firing rate" for thoughts, and that from one given thought, I have more "connections" to other thoughts than other people seem to.
Now if I had low serotonin, when I think about something, I will only be able to see the negative associations, but because of my "intelligence" I can see many more negative associations than a "normal" person would, therefore giving me more reasons to be depressed.
I kind of think that my "intelligence" is just a side effect of an over active brain, which isn't necessarily a good thing!

 

[Blue Lava]

I'm going to have to weigh in on the side that intelligence correlates to a more positive outlook on life, and the ignorance contributes to greater incidence of depression. Why? Because someone who is smart... or at least well educated, likely comes from a decent economic strata and will likely acheive the same. Uneducated people tend to not go as far up the economic ladder. Having worked as a social worker for years, I can tell you that poverty, depression, and lack of smarts all go hand in hand. IMO.

 

[*chaoscat*]

Blue Lava, it sounds like you had first hand experience with people who were poor, depressed and not very intelligent, but how can you be sure that wealthy people aren't also depressed and not very intelligent to the same extent unless you dealt with the same number of wealthy people in the same context?
There seem to be many different types of intelligence, and many different types of depression. I think that people saying they have experienced it it first hand and feel there is a link, is enough to say that there probably is a link for some people.

 

[eroc]

Interesting topic and responses.
I do believe the saying, "Ignorance is Bliss", has alot of truth to it. The connection between depression and intelligence lies in the belief that you think differently and often have a hard time being relaxed and comfortable with people who don't "know you". Being misunderstood can be devastating to your self-esteem.
"Thinking" persons can often overanalyze their encounters and behavior , too aware of trying to act "normal". Drugs can really intensify this.
And more often than not, intelligence often brings sensitivity. Just some thoughts from my perspective.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

I've thought about this a little more and I think that depression is related to intelligence but that it has nothing to do with being more aware of problems in the environment.
I think that being intelligent allows more thought proccesses and with that comes more potential for things to go awry.
If you consider the analogy of a car and driver: A car is potentially dangerous at even its most basic level - If someone drives a car around a circular race track they can crash and hit the side of the track and get injured or die. But, if you add a windy track, drivers, obstacles and rain, the same process is being performed but at a much greater complexity, hence there is more potential to 'go off the rails'.
I think a mind is similar. The more complex the level it operates on the more potential it has to crash.
Lucky I'm one of the stupid ones

 

[*=Regulator=*]

Originally posted by 2.718 enngh:

maybe intelligent people realise that even if they do achieve all that they want to (or are supposed to want to) achieve, nothing is going to change, no answer to life is going to be learned, they are not going to see why life really is wonderfull, wheras less intelligent people just concentrate on their goals and are happy in the "knowledge" that once these are achieved, they will be happy -> a nice little trick actually, being happy because you mistakenly think that you will be happy in the future !

^^
Absolutely

 

[dr seuss]

i think it's too easy to class yourself as intelligent and troubled based on emotional responses to everyday issues. everyone feels pain; true depression is a chemical imbalance.
i think many intelligent people are happier - happier because they can achieve, happier because there is so much more that they can pursue, happier because they may often have a better job, sex life, etc. altho this is blatantly a sweeping generalisation i believe it to be true.

 

[Cornelia_Fabulous]

I don't know for sure whether there is a correlation between intelligence and depression. To begin with, the term intelligence is rather ambiguous and hard to define. Is intelligence measured only in terms of academic performance? What about common sense? Some people have awesome interpersonal (i.e. social) skills but suck at anything that has to do with science, so on and so forth.
In my opinion, intelligence is a combination of quick thought processes, common sense, good memory, and interpersonal skills.
By that standard, I am considered a smart person (made first grade by the age of three, etc., etc.)
and from my experience I can say that depression has always been there. I am also very cynical, and tend to have a negative outlook in life. Like others here, I am overanalytical and usually get to the bleakest of conclusions.
So, yes, I think there might be a link between how smart you are and how depressed you get; but I also view that as a challenge: if you have a superior mind, put it to work for your benefit.
One thing that works for me is to try and see a bigger picture where events have no positive or negative value, they just happen; I try to see the universe as a system where there are so many connections and relations that I have little or no impact upon anything, so I am not going to worry about things I can't change. There are other things I do to improve my state of mind, but I think this is already long enough...

 

[lucky_charms]

I definitely think depression and intelligence are related, maybe because i have first hand experience, and i've noticed people i know that are above average intelligence getting depressed.
my reasoning for this is:
i was very smart as a young girl; speaking in more than one syllable words and forming sentences at 9 months, reading at 20 months (dr. seuss of course!), and the only kid in my kindergarten that could write and read. so they skipped me up to first grade and put me in gifted (my IQ was 135 +/- 5 at age 5). I can STILL remember (I'm 22 now) being the odd one out. all through elementary school was terrible. i was named the teachers pet cuz i always knew the answers. i had no idea that being smart was a bad thing, i just always did my best. i was never snotty about it or condescending to others, because i didnt know what intelligence was, i thought i was just like everyone else. but i guess everyone else noticed my intelligence because i had no CLOSE friends because they thought i thought i was better than them, and all i really wanted was a friend to hang out with. i was picked on alot. but somehow i was voted most congenial in 6th grade, probably because i was so desperate for a REAL friend, but i am naturally nice to everyone - i had thought no one liked me. looking back now after having gone through several depressive episodes i can see that my first symptoms of depression started at age 11. i guess i was fine through 7th-9th grade cuz i dont remember any harsh feelings during that time. 11th grade (age 15), i started to lose it again. when people asked what i got one my tests and papers i never wanted to share cuz they'd get all pissed off that i did better. and i didnt understand why they were so mad. when i wasnt in class on the first monday of the month my friends wanted to know where i was, so i told them "gifted class" and they'd be like 'oh smarty pants is too good to be in our class'. it really hurt to think that who i thought were my friends were being so mean. i wanted to fit in with everyone else, so i quit doing homework and did really really bad in 11th grade. went from a's and b's to c's and d's just so people would quit making fun of my intelligence. i almost committed suicide that year, from mainly ALOT of family problems, and also my depression that i had to pretend to not be smart to get people to like me, and that it was actually working. i don't even remember ANYTHING from age 15 to 16. it was that bad; all i can remember is how bad and horrible i felt inside. at the beginnning of 12th grade the depression started to fade, probably because i thought that i'd meet new people in college and that people in college are smart and the high school pettiness would be gone. i could finally be ME again without hesitation.
i had been pretty good livin life without depression for a couple years, until i moved to gainesville (just turned 20). i was fine for a while LOVING goin to santa fe, and having a boyfriend; but something changed and i started the downhill spiral again. i moved back home and all hell broke loose. it was THE worst depression i've had ever, alot of it because i left the man i truly loved (and didnt realize it until AFTER we broke up, you know the hindsight saying hehe), and that 5 people i was close to died in a year period. i had finally lost my marbles. i saw the psychologist went on paxil for a couple months. i even asked him if he thought intelligence was related to depression, but he didnt have any opinion on it. he gave me another IQ test (up to 140 now) and all those other fun little psych tests (rorshach, MMPI, etc), and then he had an opinion on it, so he used me as his project for his master's degree, how honoring hehehe. that was over a year ago, and i was fine again for a while until about 2 months ago.
I am a 'thinker' too and i wish i wasn't. Analytical as well.
<b>Posted by Zeph above</b>"...An analytical person ought really to try and analyse themselves, and the way they themselves think about the world." I'm not taking offense, I'm just explaining that:
Being analytical makes it so much worse in the fact that you DO analyze yourself and everyting that is wrong with you and what you are doing with your life. You analyze how by being intelligent, you don't fit in with most of the population, and why they can't accept you for who you are. Being analytical is good for science and math, but not for trying to figure out your life without making it worse. hehe and unfortunately, i make it worse. i try not to, but it is very difficult not to get caught up in your own questioning thoughts, and expanding on those thoughts, until you have hit the lowest point of the low.
Also one of my good freinds, who is SUPER SMART, only missed one question on the SAT, has been suffering from bouts of depression as well since he was young. Another one of my freinds who was in my gifted class finally revealed to me one day that she had been feeling low for periods of time too.
i stongly agree that there is a correlation, and if hasn't been studied somewhere yet, i'd like to make a study of it one day. ok that is my long story.

 

[Xeph]

Sorry lucky_charms, but I disagree. I am sorry you've felt so alone; sometimes you can't help what life deals you. However, I do believe you can change the way you deal with life.
I think that being analytical can and should make you happier. I don't mean analysing your life - I mean analysing the way you think about your life.
An example:
Thinking "Why don't I fit in", and considering possible answers to that question, is not, in my opinion, analytical. I believe an intelligent, analytical person ought to be able to take that question further - that is, ask questions such as:
"Is it really true that I don't fit in, or am I just feeling sorry for myself? ...If it is true, do I really care if I don't fit in? ...If I do care, what can I do to make myself feel better about not fitting in, or what can I do to help fit in better? If I'm not sure about the answers to these questions, who might be able to help me? More importantly, what can I do to help myself be happy?"
An intelligent person should be able to learn to analyse themselves and the way they think, not just their life. (And I fail to see what that has to do with Maths or Science!)
And although this thread is interesting, I don't think a lot of people saying "I'm intelligent and I get depressed" is much proof of anything. Really, who is going to say "I'm stupid and I get depressed"? Also, how do we define intelligent? How do we define depressed? As others said above, depression is often simply a chemical imbalance - so in those cases, it really wouldn't matter how smart or stupid you are.
[ 16 April 2002: Message edited by: Xeph ]

 

[Xeph]

Actually, I think I've simplified the issue too much. I think that when it comes to depression, and beating depression, more important than intelligence is self-esteem.
If you hate yourself, then you probably feel like you deserve to feel bad. Therefore, you probably don't *want* to change your thought patterns. I still believe that an intelligent person ought to be able to recognise this about his or her self, but building self-esteem is a huge battle.
[ 16 April 2002: Message edited by: Xeph ]

 

[Cokeboy]

When you increase the complexity of a system, you decrease the stability.
As you move down the ladder from people, depression becomes less of an issue.
The smarter you are, the more complex the system (additional pathways/interconnections) and the easier it is for the system to degrade.
Genius and insanity are kissing cousins, after all.
Just my two cents.
[ 16 April 2002: Message edited by: Cokeboy ]