Open Discussion Is Bluelight an OPEN DISCUSSION FORUM? What has the site turned into......

[Glen Sykes]

Everyone knows that using drugs is playing with fire, no matter how safely you try and do it.

I strongly disagree.
There are people who know that they’re engaging in a self-destructive act, so I'm not saying "you're wrong," but to say everyone understands the extent of what they're doing is an extremely bold claim to make. I have driven friends to the hospital, who even after surgery, think that their drug abuse while taking growth hormones had nothing to do with the swelling of their organs. I've seen people lose their minds after they've explained to me, "No it's totally cool; I'm going to be safe."
Perhaps you meant "everyone on bluelight" knows? Because I still disagree. Some users join because they admit that they don't understand the full gravity of drugs and would like to be more informed. I know they exist because I am one of them. Other example: I keep reading horror stories on bluelight from people who use 2DPMP and freak out, seeing knives levitating towards them and zombies walking the street. Those people who eat or snort hundreds of milligrams didn't know they were playing with fire. The original trip report for 2DPMP clearly outlines that desoxypipradrol is meant to be consumed in small doses and that it has a long lasting effect. So why have I read posts stating that users were “disappointed” and were “expecting a good time”?

I completely agree with Kenickie's point of how:

bluelight should be considered an open discussion forum with drug information and help if you want it.

That is a fitting description of what I would like out of bluelight and feel bluelight currently meets that criteria. (I'd just like to add that I disagree with users' deaths serving as an indication that bluelight is failing.) If I asked for help on quitting something I'm addicted to, I'm confident I would be supported with information and encouragement. If I asked for advice on dosages or if I should be wary of mixing certain drugs, I'm confident I would be supported with information and words of warning. If I wanted to know if someone experienced the same effects as I did, I'm confident I would be supported by information and enthusiasm.

My purpose in voicing my opinions are to serve as evidence that there are always going to be new members (this is my 41st post), there will always be someone who doesn't know the danger that they are in, and that bluelight is a resource to those that want to use it as one. I'm all about setting the bar and being goal oriented, but bluelight dropping the Harm Reduction tag/mission/element would be devastating to many people and be a step in the wrong direction- and negate why many users, including myself, signed up in the first place.
If we are well-aware that playing with drugs are fire, then it's our social responsibility to be there for those that don't know.

 

[FractalStructure]

What happened to BL and HARM REDUCTION?

It seems like harm reduction on BL has turned into: "can I shoot this, do I need a micron filter, will this pill turn to gel?" <that seems to be acceptable, and thats fine.

But for me:

Every question is assumed to be some sort of "identification" or whatever. I asked a question about the biological properties of MDAI. Now, I have read many big and dandy pages, and found nothing worthy in there. No one would tell me what it should even look like. How will you reduce harm by brushing off a question like that? Did i ask anyone to identify a substance in my possession? (or anyone's possion) NO. I asked what real 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane properties are. My apologies if i dont want anyone to get poisoned due to no official information on the chemical. Im not looking for opinions so much as empirical data that i CANNOT find on erowid or anywhere else, and who better to ask than other users?

(edit: as "empirical" as it can get)

Everyone is just bickering or giving some unofficial answer as to which batch got them more speedy or whatever, I just want to know ABOUT MDAI.

THIS IS HARM REDUCTION AT ITS MOST BASIC!

Not to mention: attitudes, dicksizing... I've been with bl for a long time and that's always been around, but no one has just plain insulted me for making a joke about David Nichols (a mod, at that). Mods that don't really read the thread and just pin a label, and close the thread without you being able to even explain yourself.

Have things changed so much? even on erowid i cant find shit about this substance.

PS: what about some poor guy who doesnt know how to "UTSFE" and he asks something like "can you snort t7?" most likely that person will be insulted.

If anyone answers this, dont bother if its just another insult or another way to make bluelight seem worse in my eyes. This site used to be my bible. I ask you to only offer constructive feedback. This may sound like a very bitter post, and indeed it is, but its more about my sadness about what happened to bluelight and how people used to be so helpful on here, and I just havent seen that anymore (though it is true that most of the people that were around when I joined dont post much anymore, and some are even dead, like Phreex )

PPS: in the past, no one would give you any shit for such a question (biological properties or marquis reaction of MDAI). Maybe some rules changed and I didnt notice, but either way, I am just down that I asked a simple, important question only to get shot down. This may be something i expect in the shroomery, or hip forums or something, but bluelight. Say it ain't so...

 

[Tommyboy]

Did you send a PM to one of the mods? I think that if you did so with the explanation you have in your post, you would have a better chance of your thread being re-opened then you do by making a thread on it.

 

[FractalStructure]

I am not trying to get my thread re-opened. I want to see if anyone has the same experience as me or has noticed the same thing, and I want people to not be mindless and just shut down threads without even knowing their intent. If they did that to my thread, they did it to many other threads. I have over a thousand posts (not like im bragging that im a drug nerd) but I know not to post anything incriminating or "identification threads""

EDIT: and yes, I would like to fucking know about MDAI! lol. but i feel like if it was an important question, other people would have answered it before the mod. Maybe nobody knows.

 

[muvolution]

first of all, thanks for being on BL for so long and contributing so much. Alot of the mods on here work really hard, and yes, some do get into "auto" mode an close things, especially when they think you are asking about an ID. This seems to happen alot in PD, and much less in OD, so it probably is as simple as explaining the situation and asking them to re-open it.

 

[Glen Sykes]

I just learned identification threads are no-go on bluelight. I don't remember reading that in the BLUA, and I just did a word search which yeilt nothing.
I have to be misunderstanding that it's not okay to ask what drugs look like. If that were the case, then why are the tan-MDPV threads still open?
Where is the line drawn between asking about a drug and asking for an ID?

 

[Tommyboy]

^ It's when someone says "I have a drug that looks like XYZ, what is it" that it isn't allowed. That is because someone may say "yea, that's definitely 2c-B" when it really many not be. Then the person may end up doing a dose of what they thing is 2c-B, when in reality it is something else, and they may end up overdosing because whatever it really is, is very active at an even smaller dose then 2c-B.

The main reason that it is not allowed is because it is impossible for anyone over the computer to tell someone else over the computer what drug they have. Giving them a false sense of security that they have a particular drug, can do more harm then good.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^i'll have a peruse through the BLUA as it may stand that there's no specific mention of no Pill/drug ID's, but saying that, each respective forum have their own guidelines which dictates, while still within the BLUA, their own definitions and guidelines. so check out the forums guidelines before posting.

Where is the line drawn between asking about a drug and asking for an ID?

that depends forum to forum. for instance OD and BDD specifically have no identification threads. regional forums may and do differ. there are exceptions to these rules though.

it's rather obvious when someone is asking for identification vs a general question about a drug.

ninja'd by tommy who elaborated on the whole identification thing.

edit - there's nothing in the BLUA specifically about ID's but point 5 relates to what i was just saying

Rules have been established to protect Bluelight and its members against abuse. Use of Bluelight for any purpose that is unlawful, or in any manner which could impair the operation of this site or any other party's use or enjoyment of this site, is strictly prohibited. Specifically, you may not:

5 - post or upload to a forum any content that violates specific rules of that forum;

if you're still unsure of something just PM a moderator/s of that forum.

 

[sekio]

This was the thread that got locked and I am the mod this is all directed towards. The thread was in Other Drugs where substance ID's are expressly forbidden. I am indeed quite stressed right now and I apologize if I misconstrued the intent of the post.

The way you phrased the post was, to me, implying that you wanted to know what exactly is in your presumed "95% pure MDAI" rather than determining the physical properties of the substance. I will re-open your thread, but I'm going to edit your post to clarify your intent a little better.

 

[rm-rf]

really glad i was introduced to this thread, have a lot of thoughts to share perhaps today perhaps later

 

[cj]

I have a few thoughts to share on this topic. I have been a member since the end of 05 and came here with very little understanding of any drug besides weed. In the time I have been here I have learned so much useful information and have had the oppertunity to pass on the information through my group of friends. I have no doubt that information has saved lives and I would argue that bluelight has saved countless lives. That being said I feel the quality of information in the focus forums has declined over the last two or three years. I think there is a combination of factors influencing the trend one is the foundation of the ADD forum as it has drained the most knowedgable posters away from the focus forums and is moderated in a way that if your not a scientist or highly educated about pharmacology then you are really not welcomed to post.

That being said I think there is an ebb and flow on this site as certain members come and go the character of the site changes. What keeps me coming back here day after day is the people there stories and the commaradery that you build with some posters over time. I have never been one to have many friends on this site but I sometimes think that I know people I have never talked to just by reading there posts and thats why I love BL.

 

[swilow]

There are people who know that they’re engaging in a self-destructive act, so I'm not saying "you're wrong," but to say everyone understands the extent of what they're doing is an extremely bold claim to make. I have driven friends to the hospital, who even after surgery, think that their drug abuse while taking growth hormones had nothing to do with the swelling of their organs. I've seen people lose their minds after they've explained to me, "No it's totally cool; I'm going to be safe."

But thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that people understand that there is inherent risk in drug use, just as there is in crossing the road or driving a car. I'm not saying "everyone understands the extent of what they're doing". I'm not referring to how seriously or severely people see the risks of drug use; I'm not talking about the depth or extent of this understanding. I'm saying that that people know the possible risk of drug use; some do perhaps under-rate that, some over-rate that. People know the bare minimum (at least) of risks that drugs can bring about.

Perhaps you meant "everyone on bluelight" knows?

I don't see this as a difficult or particularly new concept. People on bluelight know, or learn very quickly, that Bluelight is about harm reduction. When you enter into that knowledge, the understanding of what bluelights stated aim is, its impossible to not become aware that drug use might be harmful. Its unlikely that a forum focusing on harm reduction regarding drugs would be set up if drugs didn't carry certain risks.. As with society; most drugs being illegal- for people that use these drugs and neccesarily learn to conceal their use from the law, it simply cannot be avoided that people will know that drugs are dangerous; ostensibly, that is why they are illegal. You would have to convince me of a widespread ignorance for me to believe that, in a modern prohibitive society, people aren't aware that drugs use carries certain risks.

But remember, I'm not talking about the extent of the understanding of drugs and harm. I'm just talking about the basic knowledge that drugs can be dangerous.

If we are well-aware that playing with drugs are fire, then it's our social responsibility to be there for those that don't know.

I don't understand this. Isn't bluelight already fulfilling a large part of its social responsilibilty....?

 

[tambourine-man]

Thanks for taking the time to post, guys. Special thanks for keeping it constructive.

I think it might help the thread keep on track if the OP were to drop in and respond to the points/counterpoints.

 

[kikkroxx777]

Where can i find that old Social Drug Forum??

 

[kikkroxx777]

i miss the old Days of BlueLight, it was the one place i could trust sound helpful friendly advice, from people who generally CAred

 

[Pegasus]

Where can i find that old Social Drug Forum??

"Drug Culture" for talk about the social aspect of drug use

Or, try the social threads in the focus forums for social talk involving drugs.

 

[kikkroxx777]

Thanks

 

[Nottamous]

I wanted to cast my $.02 into the discussion. I have been coming here, in and out, for YEARS. I've recently returned from being a way for quite a while. In fact I couldn't remember any of my log in info and created a new one (which was just as well since I'm more savvy and anonymous these days).

Yes It's true that the site has changed a bit. It's also true that a number of names I recall have changed.

What Makes BL great, however, remains the same. This truly is a place new and inexperienced users can come and get genuine advice from people that genuinely care. Someone mentioned that new users these days are more informed. . . I simply don't agree with this. . . While it's true I'm older than I used to be and thus in different circles than I was, I still see a SHOCKING and scary lack of any education. Forums serve a unique medium for people to come together and access the experience and expertise of others on any number of issues. . . BL serves that function for an area and topic that isn't easily discussed anywhere else. People can come here and get information without judgment and fear. This is critical.

I won't get into the social-vs-HR argument as it seems it's been going on for far longer than I've been around but let me just say that IMHO you need a good balance of both in order to 1. provide info that new users need to be as safe as possible and 2. give the informed and experienced members enough reason to hang around to provide that info and advice.

I may be missing some (or all) of the OP's points but while reading through I got that sense that some are insinuating that BL doesn't serve a valid function and/or is obsolete and/or is hurting more than helping. . . I strongly disagree with all of these. I can assure you HR IS being accomplished. I spend most of my time in a particular focus forum so my opinion may be skewed but even so I see a LOT of great advice and people sincerely trying to offer any help they can to do as much HR as possible and this is in itself enough for me to believe in BL and it's function.

 

[Tommyboy]

I had been putting off responding to this thread for a while, in order to allow myself some time to view Bluelight as a regular member, as opposed to a senior staff member. In this time, I have made a number of observations that I feel are cause for concern, but I will only mention a few of them here.

The whole Social vs Harm reduction debate has gone on before in other threads, so although it was also mentioned in here, I don't want to get into it that much other than one thing I will say. Socials already have their place here, so I don't understand why there are new socials popping up in every forum. There is already The Lounge, as well as each regional forum for drug discussion and socials. If they are removing some of the clutter while answering quick HR related questions then that is fine, but how many is too many?

Now to address some of the day to day issues that I have seen that may affect "The State of BL (Ownership, Finances, Direction)." These are all minor issues, but collectively they take away from the validity of this site, and pose some questions moving forward.

Someone mentioned earlier in here about how people asking basic questions getting insulted about "UTFSE." I agree that this is a problem, especially when the center search engine does not work. Most new members see that as the only search engine, and why wouldn't they, it is right in the center of the website? These people getting yelled at to utfse have likely tried to do so. Why has this taken forever to get fixed? Is it not a legitimate concern? It looks incredibly unprofessional when a website states in its rules "Search Search Search!!!" yet can't provide the user with the means to do so. Yes, I know there is the search function on the top right, but if you haven't been using this site for a while and know how to refine the search by using advanced options, it is pretty useless since it automatically searches for the terms used in any post in any forum of the site. That is incredibly broad. If the future of BL is supposed to be a place that is involved in academic research, then people are going to need the ability to search efficiently on this website.

The big picture of BL was stated to be going in the direction of

the "legitimate" (non-profit?) HR route, where we publish HR material online and perhaps even IRL

For such a professional goal, the staff and it's members have to also be contributing in a professional manner. Now this precedent starts from the top and works its way down, as with any establishment. The fact remains that there are still many disgruntled staff members, and it reflects poorly on the site as a whole.

If the owners and senior staff members do not set a good impression on the rest of staff, then that doesn't give the staff proper direction. I've recently noticed that there are some moderators that quite frankly aren't very good. I found myself getting upset with them over the bad/dangerous advice they were giving, or the wrong moderator actions that they were performing, but then I thought to myself... It's not their fault that they were picked to be the mod. It's not their fault that once they became a mod there wasn't enough leadership in place to guide them in doing a proper job. I can't blame them for throwing their name in the hat to be picked, but there is something to say about them being chosen, and then not being given the proper guidance to do a good job.

There were always rules set in place to maintain a professional image for the website, but recently these things seem to be pushed to the side. What ever happened to the standards for staff signatures? When I started moderating, all staff signatures looked relatively professional and were lined up to the right. This was standard, and I even recall felix editing mine when he was changing my name so that it conformed to the guidelines. Now it seems like signatures are all over the place. Lined to the left, lined to the right, centered, different font, different color, different size etc... And then we wonder why people start threads in support asking if they can manually type in a simple signature. Maybe it's because they just saw a hot pink signature with bunnies and flowers with nice bold lettering in the center.

It's little things like this that start pushing the boundaries, and if they aren't corrected now, then they may not be addressed until it is too late. Sure you can say "who cares about a search engine and some staff signatures," but if issues like this aren't addressed, then what will be addressed?

I do think that Bluelight has a place in harm reduction, but to say that the future is publishing its own research (aside from Tronicas private work) and being accredited with such work is almost laughable at this time. If anything, this site has taken a step backwards since TLB made this thread. I don't agree with those saying that Bluelights harm reduction mission has failed due to the amount of noticeable deaths on here, but I do think that the site needs to re-evaluate it's approach to HR, and get some more attention in the areas that need it.

When I think of the state of BL, I picture the admins running around trying to plug all these holes as the site fills with water, and at this rate it is only a matter of time before they are in over their heads, and it sinks.

This isn't meant to be a personal attack on anyone, but rather a means to have some issues brought up that I feel need to be addressed.

 

[addictivepersona]

Someone mentioned earlier in here about how people asking basic questions getting insulted about "UTFSE." I agree that this is a problem, especially when the center search engine does not work. Most new members see that as the only search engine, and why wouldn't they, it is right in the center of the website? These people getting yelled at to utfse have likely tried to do so. Why has this taken forever to get fixed? Is it not a legitimate concern? It looks incredibly unprofessional when a website states in its rules "Search Search Search!!!" yet can't provide the user with the means to do so. Yes, I know there is the search function on the top right, but if you haven't been using this site for a while and know how to refine the search by using advanced options, it is pretty useless since it automatically searches for the terms used in any post in any forum of the site. That is incredibly broad. If the future of BL is supposed to be a place that is involved in academic research, then people are going to need the ability to search efficiently on this website.

Very good point, and I'm glad you mentioned this. I get sort of annoyed when people ask the same question that was just asked on page two, but I had no idea the middle search engine still wasn't working. I thought it just wasn't working for me since I have a lot of Google cookies blocked and so on. Hm. Good to know it's not just me.

If the owners and senior staff members do not set a good impression on the rest of staff, then that doesn't give the staff proper direction. I've recently noticed that there are some moderators that quite frankly aren't very good. I found myself getting upset with them over the bad/dangerous advice they were giving, or the wrong moderator actions that they were performing, but then I thought to myself... It's not their fault that they were picked to be the mod. It's not their fault that once they became a mod there wasn't enough leadership in place to guide them in doing a proper job. I can't blame them for throwing their name in the hat to be picked, but there is something to say about them being chosen, and then not being given the proper guidance to do a good job.

It's all in the training. When I was HL-mod and was helping to chose the mod to replace S_L, there were a few applications that made me think, "Man, what is this person thinking? They are no where near qualified!" Then two months later after I resigned and took a month hiatus, I come back to find one of those mods that applied for HL applied for another forum and was modded. Absolutely mind-boggling.

There were always rules set in place to maintain a professional image for the website, but recently these things seem to be pushed to the side. What ever happened to the standards for staff signatures? When I started moderating, all staff signatures looked relatively professional and were lined up to the right. This was standard, and I even recall felix editing mine when he was changing my name so that it conformed to the guidelines. Now it seems like signatures are all over the place. Lined to the left, lined to the right, centered, different font, different color, different size etc... And then we wonder why people start threads in support asking if they can manually type in a simple signature. Maybe it's because they just saw a hot pink signature with bunnies and flowers with nice bold lettering in the center.

I too was wondering this. I think it was felix who I asked when I first became a mod (last Jan/Feb) how to do that signature line... He put it in and sent me a PM that he fixed the rest of it--That is to say, he aligned it to the right.

It's little things like this that start pushing the boundaries, and if they aren't corrected now, then they may not be addressed until it is too late. Sure you can say "who cares about a search engine and some staff signatures," but if issues like this aren't addressed, then what will be addressed?

Once again, you're right, and thank you for posting this. You've said a lot of the things I have noticed and couldn't put into words. :)