drug_wench
Bluelight Crew
thats the trouble - addicts arent naturally responsible, just impulsive
snailman2102 said:I don't have any experience with NA/AA, but I am pretty involved with the scientific/medical community, and I can tell you that most medical professionals and biologists agree that addiction is a disease. This means that there are unique and identifiable chemical changes that occur in the brains of people who are addicted to something. There are plenty of scientists and scientific journals that are entirely devoted to uncovering the chemical mechanisms of addiction.
Some people, because of their genetic makeup, are predisposed to developing addictions, which is to say some people have to try harder than others to become addicts. In many cases, a person is uniquely predisposed to a certain addiction, they will have trouble with alcohol, for example, but will be fine with cigarettes, gambling, whatever. Other people, and I think these are actually in the minority, are genetically predisposed to develop addictions in many areas.
The stuff about being an addict for life has some basis in scientific fact. It's generally accepted that once you become dependent on a substance or activity it makes a permanent impact on your brain (a chemical change), and even years later, if you start using again, you will fall quickly back into your old pattern of usage (or abuse, in this case).
Lacey your comments about the division between body and mind are interesting. There are many who would argue that the mind can be reduced to a complex array of chemical reactions, and as such is just another part of the body, like the liver or spleen or whatever, but way more complicated.
I feel like I'm rambling a little so time to stop. Hopefully there's something of interest in here.
lacey k said:^^No that makes sense.
Im inbetween on it like i said.
I dont like something that tries to soften the blame.....in the long run that dont help cuz think about it....
Person 1: Does heroin daily. steals from his mom, grandma, friends, whoever. steals his parents car at night to make runs to Newark for diesel. family cant leave anything of slight value unlocked cuz it WILL be gone.
He dont go to any rehab meetings. He feels like shit for being that way and wants to kick cuz he sees what hes doin to his fam and hisself. He thinks hes a piece of shit and knows he gotta quit for all those reasons and has the mentality that its his fault, up to him to get his shit together. he might try and quit 3 or 4 or 13 or 45 times. who knows how it will work out. but he knows HE gotta fix the problem.
Person 2: Does heroin daily. steals from his mom, grandma, friends, whoever. steals his parents car at night to make runs to Newark for diesel. family cant leave anything of slight value unlocked cuz it WILL be gone.
Goes to NA meetings where they tell him that it aint his fault that he is the way he is, that HE didnt steal that stash of money hidden in the wall of his parents bedroom, the DISEASE made him do it. It aint his fault. Its the addictions fault. Hes helpless, cant help what he does. His actions aint his own. Stealing was the addiction, betraying his people was the addiction. Hes sorry for what he does, but its to be expected, cuz he cant help it.
Which one do you think would lead to someone taking ahold of their life to try and change it.
If you fail on your own terms, you failed. you gotta get back up again and try again.
If you failed cuz your disease made you do it, it aint your fault that you failed, its OK, cuz what else would you expect from someone with a disease. It justifies shit in a way...they tell you you gotta quit, but that it aint your fault if you fail at quitting. thats basically settin up someone for failure.
its shifting the blame from your actions onto a disease and it aint holding you responsible for what you do.....
ive pawned and sold shit before for dope...been there done that....i was doing it cuz i neede more dope, didnt wanna get sick, craved it...but i knew what i was doing when i was selling that shit for drug money you know....i still chose to do that, and it if wasnt for addiction, i wouldnt have done that, but i still could have chose not to...
stoy420 said:I'd say its more of a 'disorder'
lacey k said:What is a locus of control? is that a term for center of control or motivation of control or somethin, i get the idea but i dont know what it is exactly
I don't know... I could never consider any addiction a disease. To me, that's just a copout. I don't consider gambling addiction a disease, I don't consider theft a disease, a don't consider "workaholism" a disease, I don't consider people who are obesessed in sex a disease, I don't consider pedophelia a disease, nor do I consider anything one derives any form of pleasure from a disease.
Addiction is merely a weakness, but in my eyes, most definately not a disease.
To me, something like AIDS or syphillus. But, not lying, theft or addiction. Sorry.
Major problem---the chemical changes could be BECAUSE of a thinking of lack of self control etc---ie those who "decide" (bad word i know) to be addicted DEVELOP a more easily potentiated nucleus accumbens or something
who posting on here is actually clean from all drugs
wanna ask you 'do you feel any different than BEFORE you started using drug?'..if so, how???lets hear some input before i get bored and start talking about cowflop again!
The "drug education" of the 1980's about cocaine included some really awful lies and intentional misrepresentations by "well meaning" and confused "experts". One of the often repeated myths was that cocaine was so addictive that if given a choice between food and cocaine, rats would keep pushing a lever for cocaine until they starved to death. As with most of the counter-intuitive anti-fun-drug propaganda, this isn't true.
Yeah when i was in detox they drill that word into you day and night. All the junkies and alchoholics and crackheads were walking around parroting it back and forth. "Disease Disease Disease - you have a Disease" when really it matches a genetic disorder more accurately. I've always said it is a disorder and still maintain that. If the doctors can convince us all that it's a disease then they can make more cash using scare tactics.CreativeRandom said:I think I am leaning in favor the disorder theory.
i mean, if they hammer it into my head that this is an affliction that will be with me forever and that i will have to struggle every minute of every day, with no cure in sight, and that i will have to be chained to meetings forever and not have even a sip of booze, i am MUCH MORE LIKELY to relapse...