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AADD Moderators: Tronica
Is a degree enough?
- Thread starter friskk
- Start date
keystroke
Bluelighter
preacha said:
perhaps the first thing I ever agree with you on, just because you goto University doesn't mean you're better than anyone else applying for the same job....
Raving Loony
Bluelighter
nezo said:
Look it's quite simple really. My boss is a wife to a surgeon here at the hospital I work at. He looks at something like Big Brother and he see's a bunch of lazy shmucks (like I do), his wife on the other hand says 'No, these people are smart. Look how long and hard you have to work for your money. Here one of these few people will walk away with lots of money without even trying.'
She has a point.
When I started working at a power station, I saw lots of people who did next to no work during their shifts but yet they earned almost twice as much as me. Yet I would put in hours of unpaid overtime and take on jobs outside my role because I thought it was for the good of the company. I used to be exhausted after work coninutously and yet many of these workers, still fresh at knock off time would undertake business projects after work to make even more money. I tell you, it's not hard to work out who are the smart ones and they aren't always wearing the suits with their flashy degrees.
[edit] typo
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*sunflower*
Bluelighter
A brain dead, well-paying job might seem pretty great in the short-term, but after 20 years? I don't think so. I worked in a public service temp admin job once, and for a while it was great. I could go to work after practically no sleep with a hangover and it didn't matter. After a while though, even though it was a stress-free environment, I became stressed and anxious at the thought of even going. Why? Because I was better than that job and because I felt STUPID. I decided to go back to nursing, even though it was stressful and difficult to do because at least I felt alive.
A job needs to be about more than money. It needs to be stimulating, enjoyable, manageable, a reasonable amount of stress and responsibility involved, and something you're proud to do. It needs to be this way because you're going to be doing it for a long time and because its unhealthy to be constantly unmotivated and not using your brain. I pretty much feel good about myself when I get home after a shift, but on those days I feel horrible, I remember that temping job and wake up to myself.
Those jobs which pay ridiculous amounts for people with no skills or qualifications are usually casual or contract work anyway. Its hardly anything to base your career on.
A degree or trade gives you choices and opportunities, including further study and courses which most occupations require these days throughout your working life.
Unskilled, unqualified people will never have these choices or opportunities.
A job needs to be about more than money. It needs to be stimulating, enjoyable, manageable, a reasonable amount of stress and responsibility involved, and something you're proud to do. It needs to be this way because you're going to be doing it for a long time and because its unhealthy to be constantly unmotivated and not using your brain. I pretty much feel good about myself when I get home after a shift, but on those days I feel horrible, I remember that temping job and wake up to myself.
Those jobs which pay ridiculous amounts for people with no skills or qualifications are usually casual or contract work anyway. Its hardly anything to base your career on.
A degree or trade gives you choices and opportunities, including further study and courses which most occupations require these days throughout your working life.
Unskilled, unqualified people will never have these choices or opportunities.
^^
True.. To tell you the truth, I agree with Nezo completely. It's not about the money. Personally, to me, job satisfaction comes through knowing i've made a difference. Knowing that something i've developed will be used by a massive organisation... that everytime someone reads a security policy, a security architecture document or whatever else i'm doing.. that they're reading my work... a company is following what I have recommended they do.
This is not to boast.. but i recently turned down a 150K dollar job.. because i felt there were no challenges in the job. Yes, the money was fuckin great... but i got the feeling i would leave bored and feel empty. We spend a lot of time working.. I want to ensure i'm being challenged and expanded.. not stunted.
My current job pays quite a bit lower but i'm constantly challenged and provided with a wide range of work and leadership assignments... that far outweighs the money....
Although I would love to get my Nissan 350 Z!
F
True.. To tell you the truth, I agree with Nezo completely. It's not about the money. Personally, to me, job satisfaction comes through knowing i've made a difference. Knowing that something i've developed will be used by a massive organisation... that everytime someone reads a security policy, a security architecture document or whatever else i'm doing.. that they're reading my work... a company is following what I have recommended they do.
This is not to boast.. but i recently turned down a 150K dollar job.. because i felt there were no challenges in the job. Yes, the money was fuckin great... but i got the feeling i would leave bored and feel empty. We spend a lot of time working.. I want to ensure i'm being challenged and expanded.. not stunted.
My current job pays quite a bit lower but i'm constantly challenged and provided with a wide range of work and leadership assignments... that far outweighs the money....
Although I would love to get my Nissan 350 Z!
F
No.
A degree is a stepping stone (lame cliche yes .. i might have sun stroke). I dont intend to be doing anything related to my degree in 10yrs time. But then thats the beauty of a commerce degree.
Look at the list of directors for any company you'll see how varied their education has been. A degree isnt all you need anymore agreed .. and neither is it a set in stone determination of how you'll spend your working years.
Backo .. i should be doing CA 2006 ... hopefully. You make it sound great haha.
A degree is a stepping stone (lame cliche yes .. i might have sun stroke). I dont intend to be doing anything related to my degree in 10yrs time. But then thats the beauty of a commerce degree.
Look at the list of directors for any company you'll see how varied their education has been. A degree isnt all you need anymore agreed .. and neither is it a set in stone determination of how you'll spend your working years.
Backo .. i should be doing CA 2006 ... hopefully. You make it sound great haha.
doofqueen
Bluelighter
Well it all depends on what you actually want to do for a living (as in wether a degree is enough or needed)
If your happy doing what you do without having to get a degree more power to you! Hecs is expensive!
What i want to do requires a degree (four years full time study) but i'm pretty much garenteed a job when i'm done (if i'm willing to move) and also there is LOT'S of casual work for teachers. Which is what alot of new teachers do when they first graduate because it pays about $200 for a 6 hr day with an hr break (although there is lots of prep involved etc) but still!
And i will also be doing something i love and that is gving back to the world in a positive way. If i can get half the kids i teach to have my sons attitude then the next generation of kids will be out of this world
pssstt - did i go on a rant just then?![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
If your happy doing what you do without having to get a degree more power to you! Hecs is expensive!
What i want to do requires a degree (four years full time study) but i'm pretty much garenteed a job when i'm done (if i'm willing to move) and also there is LOT'S of casual work for teachers. Which is what alot of new teachers do when they first graduate because it pays about $200 for a 6 hr day with an hr break (although there is lots of prep involved etc) but still!
And i will also be doing something i love and that is gving back to the world in a positive way. If i can get half the kids i teach to have my sons attitude then the next generation of kids will be out of this world
pssstt - did i go on a rant just then?
Raving Loony
Bluelighter
I like challenging work like the next person. If anything I take on far more than I can handle. The problem I find when I am like this is because I take on so much, it becomes almost impossible to cover your arse when you projects you are responsible for are delayed for your own personal reasons and once you get behind it drags other projects down. In my experience, it is the technical people who do a lot of the hard work and possess tons of working knowledge who invariably get f'ed in the A. Organisations love these sort of people because the people because they know how to make them feel like they've let the team down.
So I've started looking into taking the easy way out. There are plenty of things I can do to keep my mind occupied. A friend of mine's hoddy is making robots and trying different methods of sensory perception. I could easily do soft well paid job and use my spare time on something uses my brain.
So I've started looking into taking the easy way out. There are plenty of things I can do to keep my mind occupied. A friend of mine's hoddy is making robots and trying different methods of sensory perception. I could easily do soft well paid job and use my spare time on something uses my brain.
^^^
You're pretty much spot on raving loony... working for a while in a service delivery area you work long hours for no rewards...
People must realise that services such as networks, email, Internet are commodities. People expect these things to work.
It's just like electricity, water and gas - we jump up and down the second it does not work. However, no one says anything while it's working.
I see tech support like being a soccer goal keeper… there’s no glory in it. You’re blamed if the team loses.. and are forgotten when the striker goals!
F
You're pretty much spot on raving loony... working for a while in a service delivery area you work long hours for no rewards...
People must realise that services such as networks, email, Internet are commodities. People expect these things to work.
It's just like electricity, water and gas - we jump up and down the second it does not work. However, no one says anything while it's working.
I see tech support like being a soccer goal keeper… there’s no glory in it. You’re blamed if the team loses.. and are forgotten when the striker goals!
F
I only jump up and down when companies are so poorly organised they can't give you any detail on when said thing is down and when it will be back up. Half the time one hand doesn't know what the other is doing! And that's not the hands fault, it's whoever creates the structure and processes in the organisation ... i.e. upper management.
Raving Loony
Bluelighter
Thankfully I am not involved in the basics like networking and such. Like you said it's a standard commodity. I can understand how people can complain if the existing infrastructure is down and want answers, but new projects are a different story. They require planning and time. And when things get delayed at a technical level, senior managers don't want to know want to know the detail... just who to blame.
gher
Bluelighter
I don't think a degree is enough nowadays. As has been said before, a degree used to mean the person was smart. Nowadays this is not always the case. I have a cousin who has several degrees and he's never worked a day in his life. But that might be because he refuses to start at the bottom. He's his own financial advisor or something. I could never get by without working.
Sometimes I wish I took up a trade, but the opportunity for university presented itself so I took it. I have to do work experience for two semesters and for the first one I was an electrical apprentice. I have returned, partly to fund my 'habits' for the summer and partly to maintain contact with the company. This is what I call 'starting at the bottom'.
Sometimes I wish I took up a trade, but the opportunity for university presented itself so I took it. I have to do work experience for two semesters and for the first one I was an electrical apprentice. I have returned, partly to fund my 'habits' for the summer and partly to maintain contact with the company. This is what I call 'starting at the bottom'.
kevb40
Bluelighter
At the moment a trade seems to be the go - at least you will always be in work, but every job can get monotonous.
Like so many have said, depends what degree you do. Employers want to see that you have reached a certain level of education and can hold on and retain certain degrees of knowledge (no pun intended).
A degree like art history or philosophy may not get you into a great job, but it may help.
I have a BSc and MSc but I did them cos I loved the life style! Cheap piss, loads of partying with hundreds of members of the oposite sex for 3 years! Dude, look at the added bonuses.
My degree was Geology. I went to do Biology but all the party guys were doing geology and i thought...thats for me boyo! Had aspirations of getting into oil exploration, but the oil crises in the late 80s (showing my age again) stuffed that up. Did and MSc so I could expand my mind, and its a totally different experience. Youa releft to write a thesis. With a post grad you can show that you can work unsupervised and discover something for yourself, or maybe that no one else has. Thats why employers look to post grads.
As for Aussie qualifications being crap and US one good - that's a load of total rubbish. Let me tell you that most employers will look at a US post grad as not much higher than an honours in Oz. They are not better.
If in doubt go on the net and buy one. Cheaper that HECS and you can get into a job interview that way!
You get a lot more than a piece of paper (and a debt) spending time at uni.
Like so many have said, depends what degree you do. Employers want to see that you have reached a certain level of education and can hold on and retain certain degrees of knowledge (no pun intended).
A degree like art history or philosophy may not get you into a great job, but it may help.
I have a BSc and MSc but I did them cos I loved the life style! Cheap piss, loads of partying with hundreds of members of the oposite sex for 3 years! Dude, look at the added bonuses.
My degree was Geology. I went to do Biology but all the party guys were doing geology and i thought...thats for me boyo! Had aspirations of getting into oil exploration, but the oil crises in the late 80s (showing my age again) stuffed that up. Did and MSc so I could expand my mind, and its a totally different experience. Youa releft to write a thesis. With a post grad you can show that you can work unsupervised and discover something for yourself, or maybe that no one else has. Thats why employers look to post grads.
As for Aussie qualifications being crap and US one good - that's a load of total rubbish. Let me tell you that most employers will look at a US post grad as not much higher than an honours in Oz. They are not better.
If in doubt go on the net and buy one. Cheaper that HECS and you can get into a job interview that way!
You get a lot more than a piece of paper (and a debt) spending time at uni.
quiet roar
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,989
Let's not forget that a lot of white collar jobs also require a ridiculous amount of hours to be worked. So, not only do you spend a small fortune on educating yourself, you then end up having to work 70 hour weeks, suck up to your (often) incompentent bosses, and pay the office politics game just to get ahead.
Brain dead jobs are boring, but corporate gigs can be soul and character destroying. There aren't too many people out there that have stimulating jobs - I think your doing well if you can get one that is relatively painless.
Brain dead jobs are boring, but corporate gigs can be soul and character destroying. There aren't too many people out there that have stimulating jobs - I think your doing well if you can get one that is relatively painless.