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Interesting Meme is Interesting

Rated E said:
I don't walk up to an acquaintance and start talking about the fragility of life or asking "what is consciousness?". Sometimes it might serve better to test the waters with a mindless piece of weather analysis. This way you can observe the person's tone and expression and make guesses about what their personality is like.

I guess this is exactly what bothers me. Why are most people so averted to personally significant philosophical discussion? Everyone relates to it, and it's the most important thing in the world to the individual. It's the perfect conversation. I think people, in general, have their priorities totally fucked up, and it generates a lot dysfunction in their environment. Of course, everyone appreciates different things. But, for some reason, most people don't appreciate those ultimately important things that effect every facet of the individuals life.

You can talk about a popular sports team, but the reality of that sports team has nothing to do with you and has nothing to offer you. The weather is the same whether you discuss it or not. But what is the nature of death? That's something that affects every decision you make. And it is everyone's ultimate concern. But hardly anybody has a personal opinion on it. These people don't want their religious beliefs to be challenged because they can't defend what they don't understand. Thus, memes have dominated the core of human experience.
 
BurnOneDown said:
You can talk about a popular sports team, but the reality of that sports team has nothing to do with you and has nothing to offer you.

Who's "you"? It does have something offer some people. It does have something to do with some people. Namely, if they enjoy talking about it, then it is offering them something.

BurnOneDown said:
The weather is the same whether you discuss it or not.

The nature of death is the same whether you discuss it or not... oh...

BurnOneDown said:
But what is the nature of death? That's something that affects every decision you make.

...really?

BurnOneDown said:
And it is everyone's ultimate concern. But hardly anybody has a personal opinion on it. These people don't want their religious beliefs to be challenged because they can't defend what they don't understand. Thus, memes have dominated the core of human experience.

In your post, I think you give way to much weight to the practical applications of philosophical discussion and ponderings. My perception is that most people see these types of discussion as impractical and useless. And, shit, they probably are impractical and useless unless you enjoy discussing them.

Do you really feel the need to justify your conversation as supremely more meaningful than any other conversation? To me, it's all the same -> ultimately useless except for the enjoyment you get out of it, meaning that the content is less important than your attitude towards it.
 
I think memes can give a sense of belonging. Or maybe people just engage in them for the lulz.

This is what I was going to say. I love meme's as well.

Ever shared a hilarious inside joke with your friends?

To me, meme's feel like that sort of fun, on a global scale. It's just a symptom of the way the worlds become connected. Pretty cool, I think. :)
 
Rate E said:
The nature of death is the same whether you discuss it or not... oh...
...really?

YA RLY. lol. But I should have said existence after death. How do you know the right way to spend your life if you don't know what to expect after death? People who believe in an afterlife live w/ purpose that is different than atheists. It may or may not imply morals that affect your decisions.

But obviously it isn't talked about in daily conversation. So you're right, it must be impractical. It just seems to me that we spend our lives promoting personally indifferent memes through daily discussion. There are tons of things that are personally significant that everyone can relate but we avoid them. Nobody likes heavy discussion. We talk about professional sports all the time. When was the last time a professional athlete talked about you? (I'm being a total hypocrite here btw, love the NFL) I entirely agree with you on one level. Everything is ultimately insignificant, so we might as well invest in what is personally enjoyable. But on another level, the large majority of people don't see it this way. I mean people are still promoting religion through fear and suffering. Maybe if they believed in something they felt secure and confident about they wouldn't have to justify themselves with suicide bombings. I guess these are things that will work themselves out. Faith is something that's been around for a while. Perhaps I'm too concerned with what everyone else believes. Everything will fall in place regardless.
 
BurnOneDown said:
YA RLY. lol. But I should have said existence after death. How do you know the right way to spend your life if you don't know what to expect after death? People who believe in an afterlife live w/ purpose that is different than atheists. It may or may not imply morals that affect your decisions.

hmm, ok. Well perhaps death was a bad example, obviously if you believe that you will experience a better after life because of your actions while alive, it will probably have an effect on your actions while alive different to than if you held the belief that there is no after life.

But what I was getting at was that talking about death and the possibility of an after life isn't really that practical. Talking about it doesn't bring any new evidence to the table, we still sit in the place we are now, we don't really know for sure what comes after death, there's really only one way to find out... ;)

Also, such discussions seem to have a knack for stirring up emotions and leading to heated argument. Which is why, it would seem, that these kinds of conversations only pop up on internet forums, or during stoned friday nights. ;)

That's not to say that there is no place for serious discussion as such, quite the opposite. More that there is a time and place. Why, I've had perfectly good dinner table conversation ruined by my father and grandfather getting into heated discussions about politics (socialist versus conservative).

BurnOneDown said:
Everything will fall in place regardless.

Yarr!
 
BurnOneDown said:
People like to talk about the weather or the ball game because they don't think about important personal matters and therefore don't have an opinion on them, at least in America. The majority avoid discussion of original thought because they are extremely ineffective at thinking for themselves and afraid to expose such a basic, critical inability. Memes such as, the weather or 'the ball game' are topics that everyone can talk about without communicating. Communicating is dangerous because it makes it hard not to reveal that you can't think for yourself.

Not to attack your beliefs or anything of that nature, but I've heard that opinion from many different sources and it strikes me as more of an ideal than an argument. I suppose that these Memes which you have deemed a method of hiding one's faults deserve a fitting interpretation. Memes are a unit of culture. Everything in a culture can be considered a meme. That would entail that the Bluelight sub-culture is a meme of the larger sub-culture consisting of drug users. Do you participate in Bluelight to cover up your gross logical impotency? I should hope that your answer is no. These memes are not inherently universal, but pervade different demographics of a culture. Maybe they've drawn a line to quantify what one could call a meme, but it would be an uphill battle to prove it isn't an arbitrary line.
 
srfhrd1 said:
Do you participate in Bluelight to cover up your gross logical impotency?

YES!!!

These memes are not inherently universal, but pervade different demographics of a culture. Maybe they've drawn a line to quantify what one could call a meme, but it would be an uphill battle to prove it isn't an arbitrary line.

Cultural units of information. That's a pretty vague definition. I think a critical trait is the way they spread through the minds of individuals. The circumstances of human communication among strangers seem to be a breeding ground for 'the weather' and other pieces. I'm sure everyone has different qualifications for what they consider a meme.
 
Read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, and get the definition of "meme" from the guy who came up with the whole theory. Or just act confused until someone opens the book and quotes it for you. While I am aware that the BLUA prohibits posting copyrighted material, I'm sure this qualifies as Fair Use. Any comments within [ ] in the quote are my editorial remarks. The context of the quote is discussion of genes as "selfish" replicators being the basic unit of selection, rather than an organism itself. Note that Quote tags are horrible for actually quoting things, because they auto-italicize. Bold represents italics in the original text.

Richard Dawkins said:
But do we have to go to distant worlds to find other kinds of replicator and other, consequent, kinds of evolution? I think that a new kind of replicator has recently emerged on this very planet. It is staring us in the face. It is still in its infancy, still drifting clumsily about in its primeval soup, but already it is achieving evolutionary change at a rate that leaves the old gene panting far behind.

The new soup is the soup of human culture. We need a name for the new replicator, a noun that conveys the idea of a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation. 'Mimeme' comes from a suitable Greek root, but I want a monosyllable that sounds a bit like 'gene'. I hope my classicist friends will forgive me if I abbreviate mimeme to meme. [Skip a bit brother] It should be pronounced to rhyme with 'cream'.

Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperm or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passes it on to his colleagues and students. He mentions it in his articles and his lectures. If the idea catchs [sic] on, it can be said to propagate itself, spreading from brain to brain. As my colleague N.K. Humphrey neatly summed up an earlier draft of this chapter: '...memes should be regarded as living structures, not just metaphorically but technically. When you plant a fertile meme in my mind you literally parasitize my brain, turning it into a vehicle for the meme's propagation in just the way that a virus may parasitize the genetic mechanism of a host cell. And this isn't just a way of talking-- the meme for, say, "belief in life after death" is actually realized physically, millions of times over, as a structure in the nervous systems of individual men the world over.'

Consider the idea of God. We do not know how it arose in the meme pool. Probably it originated many times by independent 'mutation'. In any case, it is very old indeed. How does it replicate itself? By the spoken and written word, aided by great music and great art. Why does it have such high survival value? Remember that 'survival value' here does not mean value for a gene in a gene pool, but value for a meme in a meme pool. The question really means: What is it about the idea of a god that gives it its stability and penetrance in the cultural environment?

I included the last paragraph because it serves as a decent example of thinking about memes. I cut it off mid-paragraph, and he does go on to provide his answer to that question, and goes back to talking about genes as replicators, and evolutionary biology. For what it's worth, I quoted around one page out of 332. The 30th Anniversary Edition is nice, and has a great index.

For bibliographicaloligicizational purposes:

Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, pp. 192-193
Oxford University Press, 30th Anniversary Edition 2006
 
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What is "LULZ"?

Now that I (sort of) know what a meme is, whats a "LULZ"?

Until 5 minutes ago I thought a meme phrase was something about "me, me, me" and frequently found in a ClubbinGuido thread.
 
^ In Soviet Russia the topic stays on YOUUUUU!

But seriously, don't you think memes fall into the all-enveloping 'all things in moderation' category? I've heard many a cliched response played very adeptly, and to much comedic and/or meaningful value. The fallacy is thinking that this same response will be equally as funny or illuminating in a totally unrelated context. And unfortunately, that's exactly what easily copied Internet memes / real life cliches lend themselves to.
 
I accidentally the topic, is this bad?

I understand what you're saying MDAO. However, the very nature of memes is that they are supposed to be cultural units of information that are subject to the laws of natural selection. Those memes that aren't generated and therefore reinforced in the collective conscious will eventually die off, while the fitter memes reap the resources that are the degrees of intensity of the collective attention span. I would think that if a meme began to lose its entertaining value, it would stick around for a little while, and then rightly disappear.
 
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