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Insufflating Lisdexamfetamine

A

AlphaMethylPhenyl

Moderator: TDS
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Yea im probably gonna get alot of hate mail in the form of UTFSE but I need to know from the wise.



So does insufflating this drug really prevent psychoactive effects as Shire says so? Or are they trying to make some moola?

I'v heard SUCH conflicting theories, and need a straight up answer
 
Lisdexamfetamine (L-lysine-d-amphetamine) is an inactive molecule prodrug (brand name Vyvanse) consisting of the psychostimulant d-amphetamine coupled with the essential amino acid L-lysine. Lisdexamfetamine was developed so that the psychostimulant is released and activated more slowly as the prodrug molecule is hydrolyzed—consequently cleaving off the amino acid-during the first pass through the intestines and/or the liver. Essentially, this makes lisdexamfetamine an extended-release formulation of d-amphetamine; however, the release characteristics are integral to the molecule itself, rather than simply the pill construction.
^^^^ wikipedia

i've heard conflicting reports of people snorting it. some say good, some say no good. everybody i've known personally has eaten it.

it doesn't prevent psychoactive effects, they just aren't accessible insufflated. orally i found this to be an incredibly potent form of dextroamphetamine
 
hah i was just about to post this exact topic...damn 8o

anyway... i snorted half a 40mg vyvanse and within about 10 minutes it kicked in pretty hard..feeling warm and tingly all over..then the other half i snorted 30 minutes later...it's definitely very euphoric..almost feels a bit like mdma. much more euphoric and relaxing than when taken orally -- which feels like a harder come up, kind of dirty, hard on the stomach, no euphoria etc. it's been 1hr and 45min since i snorted the other half and now i just feel focused and a little sketch..but energy is still low like when i'm baseline :\..i noticed it didn't really give me a ton of stamina or energy like orally but just kind of a rush that gradually faded. the euphoria only lasted about an hour. it may be better just to snort the entire thing in one go but i have a feeling it still won't last long..unless you snort quite a bit at once. i have low amphetamine tolerance. i guess the amino acid doesn't allow you to absorb much of the amphetamine nasally. hope that helps.

peace
 
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Actually no, you still get the metabolism when you snort it, because it still goes into your bloodstream, and through your liver. However, snorting this won't be as intense as snorting regular amphetamine, because as it needs to be metabolised first, the snorting doesn't provide any real advantage over the oral intake
 
I know it's frowned upon to bump threads like this, but I feel an important question wasn't really answered. If the absorption of lisdexamfetamine is roughly equivalent to absorption potential of l-lysine (which would obviously be high orally), then wouldn't the central question be whether amino acids such as l-lysine have any nasal bioavailability?

It seems this kind of question would be largely irrelevant to amino acids in general, (I hope to god no one's snorting their dietary supplements) but has anyone here ever read anything on the subject? If amino acids could be absorbed nasally, then theoretically, I would think that insufflation could slightly speed up the onset, assuming the vyvanse could be hydrolized entirely after absorption and not within the GI tract (in a related question, is trypsin present in the GI tract?).

Sorry to bump and hijack a thread at the same time, but it sounds like a lot of people here (especially me) have an incomplete understanding of the absorption process. I think answering these questions could add some clarity to the lisdex discussion in general.
 
permastoned said:
Actually no, you still get the metabolism when you snort it, because it still goes into your bloodstream, and through your liver.
Click to expand...
The compound possesses 2 primary amines. I wouldn't be surprised if bioavailiability would be dropped due to significantly lower absorbance... MescalitoBandito had a very good point about that issues. Read his post again!

crowbar said:
Your stomach is made to cleave peptide bonds, your bloodstream isn't really.
Click to expand...
It's not 'the stomach' but the peptidases that cleave the peptide bonds. And of those everybody got some in his blood, too...

- Murphy
 
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permastoned said:
Actually no, you still get the metabolism when you snort it, because it still goes into your bloodstream, and through your liver. However, snorting this won't be as intense as snorting regular amphetamine, because as it needs to be metabolised first, the snorting doesn't provide any real advantage over the oral intake
Click to expand...

Not to get off topic but then why does taking codeine via insufflation have zero effect? [minus the drip] If lisdexamphetamine is also filtered by the liver from the bloodstream, would that not be the case for the codeine --> morphine metabolism also?
 
Comparing apples with oranges...
The transformation codeine-to-morphine is catalyzed by a hepatic cytochrome P450-type enzyme, while the metabolization Lisdexamphetamin-to-amphetamine is peptidase-catalyzed and will occur mainly in the blood IMO.

- Murphy
 
A blog on WebMD seems to confirm that the hydrolysis occurs in the GI tract and not in the bloodstream, though not directly:

Since there are no enzymes in the nasal passages that can break this bond, blood levels would be 96% lower if Vyvanse were snorted than if d-amphetamine were snorted, and 75% lower if it were injected. When given intravenously to adults with histories of stimulant abuse, Vyvanse produced less euphoric effects than d-amphetamine, and the effects were not significantly different than intravenous placebo.
Click to expand...
http://blogs.webmd.com/adhd-medications-and-treatments/2007/03/fda-approves-new-adhd-drug-vyvance.html

I would take this guy's blog with a grain of salt, but the consensus seems to be that the cleavage has to happen before the absorption. The question that's bugging me now is, if this is the case, shouldn't sodium bicarbonate help with absorption? That is, if it's d-amphetamine and not lisdexamfetamine that's being absorbed in the stomach? I wonder if the claim that it wouldn't work as a potentiator was based on false assumptions rather than experience. I might have to experiment with that.
 
It seems to me that the euphoric affects of amphetamine are caused by speed of absorption rather than absorption amounts - you may be able to push it into the blood by insufflation but the euphoric affect would be damped by the slow conversion of lis-d-amph into d-amph from there.

If you could combine lis-d-amph with something that would cleave the lysine from it, though, you might be onto something...
 
I'm sure that oral use in this case would result in an increased amount of overall amphetamine delivered, but nasal should still provide a relatively faster onset. This is a case where it would really be a waste, though
 
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