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Benzos INSTANT benzo crossover and in TROUBLE

katy1954

katy1954

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
42
Location
Canada
Please dont move my post i need some advice
-I am 58yrs f
-20yrs using benzos -13 yrs of ativan
-went to hospital and they just switched my 4mgs ativan and .05 valium to 3 mgs clonazepam
-2mgs pm and 1mg am
-added in 100 mgs gabapentin am and pm
-I was taking gabapentin prior for 4 months-lyrica3and a half yrs-
-quit lyrica sept2012-and using 100-300 gabapentin until dec31
-in January I became ill (gabapentin w/d?maybe)
-then hospital where some dr just changed me to clonazepam
-Please I am non-functional,could I be in ativan w/d?
-the dr was very flippant
-just switch and sent me home.
-I am in TROUBLE ,it has been 11 days and I have extreme anxiety,lost a lot of weight.
-any ideas PLEASE?change the dose of clonazepam to more often?
-go back to ativan and how?
-I have no dr advice -may be able to see one tues.
-but really struggling here-
I AM TERRIFIED OF GOING BK TO HOSPITAL
-please somebody with any idea could you answer?
thank you
 
Rebound Anxiety is a part of Benzo WD but I gather you are taking: 3mg of kpin a day plus (I'm guessing a 5mg valium?)

IMO there's no way you could be in Benzo WD.

I'm guessing they changed benzos because Clonazepam has a much longer half life than ativan, making it much better suited to a daily "maintenance" type dose.
 
No ^ The doctor removed her valium, so she's just on the 3mg clonazepam.

Sounds like benzo withdrawal to me, but the only thing we can really tell you to do is see a doctor quickly and explain what you just explained here. They should definitely make some sort of adjustment to your meds, especially if you've lost a lot of weight.
 
Clonazepam is I believe, 2x stronger than Ativan/Lorazepam and 10x stronger than Valium/Diazepam, plus, clonazepam has a longer half life than Ativan (though a shorter half life than diazepam). 3mg of clonazepam should keep you out of benzo WD, i would think, so I agree that it must be something else causing the symptoms. However you should definitely seek medical attention, regardless of the cause.
 
It might not be withdrawal, but it certainly could be that she doesn't respond well to clonazepam. I'm the same way; I can take 2-3mg of clonazepam and still have horrible anxiety, while 1mg IV lorazepam in the hospital will do loads more for me.
 
Znegative said:
Clonazepam is I believe, 2x stronger than Ativan/Lorazepam and 10x stronger than Valium/Diazepam, plus, clonazepam has a longer half life than Ativan (though a shorter half life than diazepam). 3mg of clonazepam should keep you out of benzo WD, i would think, so I agree that it must be something else causing the symptoms. However you should definitely seek medical attention, regardless of the cause.
Click to expand...

you mean more potent but yes. However each benzo binds to the gaba-a receptor subtypes with different affinities, you can't just switch over from one to another without some withdrawal effects. This is well known. For example you are addicted to alprazolam at 10mg/day and Dr switches you to 100mg of diazepam per day at once, you are going to feel like shit for a few days but only a few as your body will adjust quickly enough. It wont be an all out withdrawal and you aren't likely to have a seizure, especially if you are switched to clonazepam as it has strong anticonvulsant properties.

OP yes you're in ativan withdrawal, maybe bump up your dose of clonazepam a bit to try and even it out or get some ativan. Dr should not have done that to you but they don't know better. Even so 11 days seems a bit long to still be having issues, but everyone is different. I would just go to the ER when they measure your pulse/heart rate they should know whats up, they always put me in the front of the line once they see my vitals are fucked and give me an ekg but you can just tell them you are in benzo withdrawal.
 
RobotRipping said:
you mean more potent but yes. However each benzo binds to the gaba-a receptor subtypes with different affinities, you can't just switch over from one to another without some withdrawal effects. This is well known. For example you are addicted to alprazolam at 10mg/day and Dr switches you to 100mg of diazepam per day at once, you are going to feel like shit for a few days but only a few as your body will adjust quickly enough. It wont be an all out withdrawal and you aren't likely to have a seizure, especially if you are switched to clonazepam as it has strong anticonvulsant properties.

OP yes you're in ativan withdrawal, maybe bump up your dose of clonazepam a bit to try and even it out or get some ativan. Dr should not have done that to you but they don't know better. Even so 11 days seems a bit long to still be having issues, but everyone is different. I would just go to the ER when they measure your pulse/heart rate they should know whats up, they always put me in the front of the line once they see my vitals are fucked and give me an ekg but you can just tell them you are in benzo withdrawal.
Click to expand...

I have ativan and I have tried a rescue dose. felt really wiped out.The dr should not have done that for sure.Going back to the er in Canada is not going to work they put you in the psyche ward,I wish I know how to get back to the ativan and just dump the clonazepam.I can see a dr tuesday but dont think he is going to be much help.this drug is not working for me,I agree but how do I get back to the ativan?
I was having some morning anxiety on ativan but this clon is horrible.
Can one take ativan and clon together?
and in Canada they dont care of youre in withdrawal ,,,,they just dont care.
I am in bad shape.The dose of clonazepam at night is high should i spread it out?
I am so lost here.I am not myself,very depressed.
And so lost ,trouble just fuctioning.At times I feel really drugged and others riddled with anxiety.
after 13 yrs of ativan I should never have let this dr do this.
I cant go to hospital.
Maybe the gabapentin is complicating things.
I am so lost,can I do a direct cross back to ativan?
ty for your ideas.
katy
 
-also first days of cross my eyes were blurry-
-dr said maybe you need vision check-idiot
-and after taking clon at 8am by 1 pm I am anxious and messed up.
I'm scared.
 
They should care if you're in benzodiazepine withdrawal when you've been on them for 20 years. Seizures are a very real symptom of benzodiazepine withdrawal. You CAN take ativan and clonazepam together, but remember you're just gonna be taking 2 benzos at once so there will be an additive effect. I wouldn't switch myself over without speaking with this doctor you're going to see tuesday, myself, but I don't see any harm in taking ativan as needed. You may want to avoid taking the clonazepam if you decide to take the ativan, since you say that it messes you up. As someone with panic disorder w/ agoraphobia that has nothing but hydroxyzine for anxiety, I truely feel for you. Hell, I can't even imagine what you're going through after being on benzos for 20 years. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Your not in benzodiazepine withdrawal, when you abruptly stop gabapentin/pregabalin while on benzodiazepines, they simply stop working. Your doctor has placed you on an equipotent dose of clonazepam to your ativan so there's no way that's the root of all your symptoms.

You need to get back on the gabapentin, and taper it down very slowly over at least a month because that's what your withdrawing from, and once you reach the last week of your taper do not take any benzodiazepines, because there seems to be a causal relationship between severe pregabalin/gabapentin withdrawal and concomitant benzodiazepine use.
 
thank you ,but Chromophobia ,
-the dr put me back on gabapentin 100 am and 100pm
-its not helping
-after 20yrs are you suggesting a benzo taper?
I was on a maxium of 300 gabapentin before I stopped for 4 months
-prior 3 and half yrs of lyrica
-are you saying the benzos just stop working?
-can ou explain casual rel between gab w/d and benzo use?
 
i live in Canada as well and have gone through benzo withdrawals plenty of times here. Some Dr.s may ignore you but try to document this and report them to someone at the hospital. just keep trying to get a different dr or launch a complaint and go back, they won't send you to the psych ward unless you're a danger to yourself or others. I've done the same thing and got scripted valium.
 
Katy I hope you get this sorted out. Clonazepam could take hours to set in and then you may feel it very subtle. That's the way it hit me anyway. At least you have an upcoming appointment. I don't see the harm in going back to your original script if you're feeling really poorly and don't bother with clonazepam for a couple days. Why do you feel that this doctor won't be of much help to you? Considering the fact you've been on ativan for a very long time, I would hope the doctor would put you back on it.
 
katy1954 said:
thank you ,but Chromophobia ,
-the dr put me back on gabapentin 100 am and 100pm
-its not helping
-after 20yrs are you suggesting a benzo taper?
I was on a maxium of 300 gabapentin before I stopped for 4 months
-prior 3 and half yrs of lyrica
-are you saying the benzos just stop working?
-can ou explain casual rel between gab w/d and benzo use?
Click to expand...

Many of the people that go through gabapentin or pregabalin withdrawal, either here on the forum in some case studies, have some form of poly gabaergic drug use, such as using gabapentin with a benzodiazepine such as in your case. In one case study from an individual withdrawing from pregabalin, he was in a state of catatonia (unable to move) and 50 milligrams of lorazepam (Ativan) was ineffective at providing him relief. Only when the pregabalin was reinstated, did his symptoms completely reverse. There are many similar case studies were benzodiazepines are ineffective at controlling withdrawal from gabapentin.

In your case you've dropped the gabapentin, then it was reinstated at a much lower dose as I understand. Gabapentin potentiates benzodiazepines or makes them stronger, so your significant decrease in gabapentin dosage, and even your jump from pregabalin (Lyrica which is much stronger) to gabapentin, have caused your benzodiazepines to become much less potent, or to stop functioning entirely.

Benzodiazepines also seem to share some cross tolerance with gabapentin and pregabalin. So the higher doses of benzodiazepines that you take, the less the gabapentin will become effective.

Get a higher dose of gabapentin reinstated, try taking it alone without the benzodiazepine for a day or two, clonazepam has a long half-life and gabapentin is an anti-convulsant so you will not be at risk of seizure. If you feel that your symptoms have completely reversed (which I'm sure they will), you'll know for sure your in gabapentin withdrawal. In which case you should start a gabapentin taper, which should ideally be done with very low doses of benzodiazepines, so the gabapentin can be effective as your reducing it.

If you don't intent on quitting the gabapentin, then you need to lower your benzodiazepine dose, and raise your gabapentin dose, or hop onto pregabalin.

I've tried to clarify as much as I can, let me know if there's anything that doesn't make sense, and I'll try to make it clear.
 
katy1954 - I remember your previous threads and haven't you been having these kinds of problems for like 6 months, since before you even started reducing the Lyrica or benzos? And don't you have neuropathic pain or fibromyalgia or something like that? As well as having pancreatitis? You seem to attribute all your problems to drug withdrawal, I doubt the pancreatitis was from reducing your gabapentin dose like you assumed for example. I don't mean to be harsh and I realize you are suffering and feel very bad for you, but I don't know what more I can say to you than what I have previously said repeatedly: Please try to find a GOOD doctor who is experienced in these kinds of problems.
 
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Do you take vitamin D3? There is a huge uprising involving anxiety and D3 supplementation, between 2000-5000 mgs per day, typically attacking with 5000 then dropping to 2000 daily. Definitely worth a try, as it has never hurt anybody.
 
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