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Opioids Inflicting pain to deal with withdrawal? wtf!?

8L4YN3 said:
We're not talking about self harm here, like cutting ect. The OP is talking about someone who is punching themselves during opioid with the logic that this will cause their body to release endorphins(opiates) which will inturn relieve with the withdrawal, which is ofcourse completely silly because an opiate addicts body isn't even producing it's own endorphins anymore, and the persons tolerance would be so high that any endogenous morphine that was released into the bloodstream would only be a minute amount in comparison to the amount of morphine or opioid needed to bind to enough receptors to end the withdrawal.
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It's a slippery slope though. It's no different than any other device used to escape reality. You start slow and then quickly spiral out of control in most cases. Take for example:

A person takes a few percocet because their day sucks. They learn that the opiate in the percocet can cause them to feel better, eventually (in most cases I have seen) that leads to use of heavier more dangerous drugs such as oxycontin and heroin. Why did they do this in the first place?

1: They used the drug to escape the reality of their day 'sucking'
2: The release and reward of endorphin release eventually lead to their self-destructive behaviour.

Take this person in the OPs post. Why does he hit himself in the first place?

1: He hits himself to escape the reality of his feelings of withdrawl
2: The release and reward of endorphin release eventually may lead to more and more self-destructive behaviour.

I understand that you are making a valid point of the endorphin release from the brain being very small from the punching, however in his mind it makes him feel better, and that thought process of him 'feeling better by causing himself harm' is the real danger here.
 
Well, my friend is 20 years old (I'm much older, he's a cousin of a friend of the family) and I think he probably has asperger's syndrome or something like that. Could that have something to do with all this?

The guy is currently a geography student and does fairly well, but he really doesn't have any friends (which is why I hang out with him sometimes) and he never EVER goes anywhere but school unless he's getting drugs. He doesn't behave normally in a social manner whatsoever. It's weird... he's pretty smart when it comes to a few certain academic topics, but imo he's completely socially inept. Not that he has full blown autism or something, but he says weird things and always alienates himself, plus he has weird habits... but at the same time in his own way he seems to be confident in himself. Sometimes I'm impressed by his intellect, and other times I think he's completely retarded or deranged. For example, I don't think he really understands the concept of embarrassment (yes, I'm serious).

Point is... I really can't tell if he's truly at risk for being a self-mutilator or if he truly believes bludgeoning his leg relieves WD symptoms or what.

Any shrinks on bluelight? lol

EDIT: Grammar/Formatting
 
OxyChem said:
Well, my friend is 20 years old (I'm much older, he's a cousin of a friend of the family) and I think he probably has asperger's syndrome or something like that. Could that have something to do with all this?

The guy is currently a geography student and does fairly well, but he really doesn't have any friends (which is why I hang out with him sometimes) and he never EVER goes anywhere but school unless he's getting drugs. He doesn't behave normally in a social manner whatsoever. It's weird... he's pretty smart when it comes to a few certain academic topics, but imo he's completely socially inept. Not that he has full blown autism or something, but he says weird things and always alienates himself, plus he has weird habits... but at the same time in his own way he seems to be confident in himself. Sometimes I'm impressed by his intellect, and other times I think he's completely retarded or deranged. For example, I don't think he really understands the concept of embarrassment (yes, I'm serious).

Point is... I really can't tell if he's truly at risk for being a self-mutilator or if he truly believes bludgeoning his leg relieves WD symptoms or what.

Any shrinks on bluelight? lol

EDIT: Grammar/Formatting
Click to expand...

Common symptoms associated with Aspergers. Are you positive that he has this condition or is it just an assumption based on your experiences around him? If he is in fact autistic or in fact has aspergers then perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.

As much help as we may be able to offer, you still need to convince him that he either needs to stop hitting himself to feel better about withdrawl, or even better get him some resources and help quitting drugs altogether thus negating the need for him to hurt himself.

I hope this helps, I feel for your situation I really do. Sometimes drug users never see how much we hurt the ones that care about us.
 
Couldn't read all the posts, but kinda like some of u were saying w/ running, a VERY hot bath could help too. It will cause ur body to release natural pain killers. My fiance swears by hot baths. I imagine ur friend as a bit of a hot head though :) maybe he's not the type 4 a candlelit bath.
 
your brain releases endorphins when you get hurt but exercise releases just as much or more than pain so i'd tell him to hit the weights
 
I honestly don't believe that this individual's actions result from any psychological issues at all. He doesn't sound like a self harmer. He sounds like someone going through withdrawal, and, with all due respect, I don't think that anyone who hasn't gone through opiate withdrawal personally possesses the experience to respond to this post. A person going through withdrawal will do ANYTHING to make the pain go away. If you genuinely think that hurting yourself will accomplish this, then that's what you'll do. And there is some science behind it. Pain produces endorphins, and the body's decreased production of endorphins is the result of it's adjusting to the chronic addition of synthetic endorphins (morphine and its derivatives). I believe that this friend of the OP's is honestly just trying to stop his withdrawals.

That being said, those who have suggested going for a long run would work a lot better than self harm are right. I just jumped off my last dose of suboxone two days ago, and running has help IMMEASURABLY. So, instead of patronizing your friend and acting like he has some deep psychological issues, treat his decision as a legitimate one (if you've really been through withdrawal- the restless legs, the insomnia the nausea, the waking up in the middle of the night with your heart beating 5 times every microsecond, you would understand this) and convince him that exercise will accomplish what he is attempting to achieve a lot better.

Also, one last thing. Someone mentioned a friend of theirs cutting themself on an ecstacy comedown. That's different. The MA in MDMA stands for Methamphetamine, and, as amphetamine (part psychedelic) the withdrawals are psychological, not physical, and they stem from the downregulation of the dopamine receptors (this means that your brain starts cutting off it's receptors that receive dopamine, because amphetamines, which are basically dopamine reuptake inhibitors, have increased the intensity of dopamine being processed in the brain). Ergo, when you stop taking all that X, your brain doesn't have the receptors in place to facilitate natural dopamine circulation. But a lack of dopamine cannot be remedied by inflicting pain, whereas, a lack of endorphins can. Dopamine is what your body uses to reward you (thus the depression whilst going without it). Endorphins are what your body uses, among other things like regulating body temperature, to mitigate pain. Therefore, I see more logic in someone hurting themself while going through opiate withdrawal than MDMA withdrawal. The latter is just depressed, while the former is desperate to avoid pain. Still, a good run is a lot better than a punch in a leg. No need to patronize your friend as some sort of neurotic for applying a little science, however. Just give him a better suggestion that applies to the basic principle he's obviously adopted regarding endorphins.
 
self mutilation during withdrawal actually makes sense when you think about it, the brain has stopped producing endorphins because it is getting help from the meds, but it takes several days for the brain to play catch-up after the meds have stopped, thus creating strong physical withdrawal pain. the act of inflicting injury promotes the release of endorphines by "jumpstarting" its production in the brain.

of course i in no way condone these actions, just explaining how it works
 
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