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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Immigration discussion

The great thing about immigration is that assimilation goes both ways and always happens in 1-2 generations. The people coming here and bring a lot of their cultural knowledge, we learn from them and they learn from us while their children are raised in their home but in the society here. They watch our TV and are a part of our institutions, the first generation I think is always fluent in English.

The immigrants that came leave businesses and families behind that become integrated into their communities. Think about delis in New York city or Chicago, the variety of restaurants in LA or San Diego. And let's not even bring up poutine

Integration and assimilation isn't instant nor does it happen at the individual level. Immigration has built the culture into what it is today and it will continue to evolve, just like all cultures have all over the world since cultural communication was a thing before humans

Food isn't the only example, I'm just using it because its relatable and easily observable. Everyone eats, almost everyone loves trying different foods cooked well
 
someguyontheinternet said:
The great thing about immigration is that assimilation goes both ways and always happens in 1-2 generations. The people coming here and bring a lot of their cultural knowledge, we learn from them and they learn from us while their children are raised in their home but in the society here. They watch our TV and are a part of our institutions, the first generation I think is always fluent in English.
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so the thing is to make everybody the same, in this case like (global) you?
 
paltatomate said:
so the thing is to make everybody the same, in this case like (global) you?
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Why would everyone become the same? Why do you think I would want people to be like me? Why would I not want to change and adapt as well?

I don't think its possible for everyone to become the same, there are too many people in too many places. Culture and society is so dynamic that I can't see the world becoming homogenous
 
I'm reminded of the axiom:

A billionaire, an immigrant, and you sit at a table.

A plate of 100 cookies is brought to the table

The billionaire (eg. Elon Musk/Donald Trump) takes 99 cookies, and then turns to you and says "Hey, that immigrant is trying to take your cookie".

--

What I do find troubling about laissez-faire immigration or even forced acceptance of immigration is the way in the west has been permissive in allowing a mixture of undocumented or questionably documented peoples to come into areas that are already resource strained (lower income urban areas) and then allowed/forced/given no other option than to - shuffle into the mix of people who are seeking social welfare supports, resulting in increased tension and competition for the limited supports that are already allocated. This causes tension between citizens and immigrants who are both traumatized and resource strained, while negating many of the benefits that immigration could provide (increased cultural diversity - music/arts/cuisine/curiosity). Instead of focusing on the positives, we have no other option than to see an increasing morass of suffering peoples which results in anger/resentment/violence/xenophobia.

Meanwhile those in power who have allowed the system to create this mess, pick and chose whom to enlist into indentured servitude, further causing frustration among the working class people who have no power over the elites, and just continue to focus their frustration on the 'others' (immigrants, ethnic communities within their neighborhood, homeless folks) who also have no power. Meanwhile, elites just skip along, beyond reproach, letting the lessers deal with the fighting.

You can't extricate class struggle from racism, and you can't extricate immigration from either.

And here we are; strangers on the internet, screaming into the void ad infinitum
 
Conky said:
It's ethnic cleansing ; replacement of the Caucasian population
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whites are replacing themselves with fentanyl and by being bad at math/tech and propping up billionaires that steal everything from them in broad daylight.

They aren’t being replaced by farm workers with no education that don’t speak the same language. If that’s who you’re competing with for jobs after growing up here - that’s a you problem.

For all the personal responsibility talk you ppl sure love to blame others for your problems of your own doing.
 
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LucidSDreamr said:
whites are replacing themselves with fentanyl and being bad at math/tech and propping up billionaires that steal everything from them in broad daylight.
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100%
LucidSDreamr said:
They aren’t being replaced by farm workers with no education that don’t speak the same language. If that’s who you’re competing with for jobs - that’s a you problem.

For all the personal responsibility talk you ppl sure love to blame others for your problems of your own doing.
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No notes.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
whites are replacing themselves with fentanyl and being bad at math/tech and propping up billionaires that steal everything from them in broad daylight.

They aren’t being replaced by farm workers with no education that don’t speak the same language. If that’s who you’re competing with for jobs - that’s a you problem.

For all the personal responsibility talk you ppl sure love to blame others for your problems of your own doing.
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tryptakid said:
100%

No notes.
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I thought making generalizations based on skin color was wrong?
 
mal3volent said:
So as long as it can be backed up with data, we are free to make observations based on skin color here?
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@Conky was the one that made the initial observation about a racial group “white people are being replaced by other races or going extinct or whatever he said”…u know the ole 14 words we’ve been hearing for a century

All I did was provide a possible reason to explain why the claim he made could be true. I didn’t assert the claim, conky did.

If you want to ask why people are making claims about races…ask him..he made the claim, I just provided a rationale to explain his claim
 
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LucidSDreamr said:
whites are replacing themselves with fentanyl and by being bad at math/tech and propping up billionaires that steal everything from them in broad daylight.
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"Blacks are replacing themselves with crack cocaine and gang violence and by creating generations of fatherless children"
"Native Americans are replacing themselves with alcoholism and gambling and raising obese children"

All supported by data, so ok?
 
mal3volent said:
"Blacks are replacing themselves with crack cocaine and gang violence and by creating generations of fatherless children"
"Native Americans are replacing themselves with alcoholism and gambling and raising obese children"

All supported by data, so ok?
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Ask @Conky he was the one that made the claim that whites are being replaced because the races you mention happen to exist. He says they are taking over, you say they are disappearing. Sounds like you two don’t even agree on who is disappearing
 
mal3volent said:
"Blacks are replacing themselves with crack cocaine and gang violence and by creating generations of fatherless children"
"Native Americans are replacing themselves with alcoholism and gambling and raising obese children"

All supported by data, so ok?
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There are layers of subtlety that goes unexamined with this. Black people were originally here (USA) because they were enslaved and brought here by whites, subjected to trauma over generations that metastisized into a social cancer via addiction, abuse, poverty, Al along side the explosion of 20th century White excellence.

Black liberation reached a turning point during the civil rights era and while a modicum of rights were achieved, the greatest intellectuals and leaders of a generation were murdered young, leaving young people with fewer role models that were alive and who could be followed.

And then.. White people realized that crack could be useful as a chemical weapon, so the CIA brought it into Watts and Brooklyn in the early 1980s.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Ask @Conky he was the one that made the claim that whites are being replaced because the races you mention happen to exist. He says they are taking over, you say they are disappearing. Sounds like you two don’t even agree on who is disappearing
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I haven't made any affirmative statements of my own at all, only asking questions as to what is allowable on this forum these days.
 
tryptakid said:
There are layers of subtlety that goes unexamined with this. Black people were originally here (USA) because they were enslaved and brought here by whites, subjected to trauma over generations that metastisized into a social cancer via addiction, abuse, poverty, Al along side the explosion of 20th century White excellence.

Black liberation reached a turning point during the civil rights era and while a modicum of rights were achieved, the greatest intellectuals and leaders of a generation were murdered young, leaving young people with fewer role models that were alive and who could be followed.

And then.. White people realized that crack could be useful as a chemical weapon, so the CIA brought it into Watts and Brooklyn in the early 1980s.
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Yeah, i obviously know all that. You kind of prove my point for me when you so quickly present an explanation behind these "observations" as they relate to African Americans but the comments regarding generalizations of whites were left unchecked.

To be clear, I don't give a fuck if people stereotype white people. What I do care about are double standards and hypocrisy.
 
It's wh
mal3volent said:
Yeah, i obviously know all that. You kind of prove my point for me when you so quickly present an explanation behind these "observations" as they relate to African Americans but the comments regarding generalizations of whites were left unchecked.

To be clear, I don't give a fuck if people stereotype white people. What I do care about are double standards and hypocrisy.
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It's why all of this stuff stuff gets too dicey and should probably not be content that the site hosts, imho. The difficulty to thread the needle and have a nuanced discussion in good faith approaches impossible.
 
tryptakid said:
It's wh

It's why all of this stuff stuff gets too dicey and should probably not be content that the site hosts, imho. The difficulty to thread the needle and have a nuanced discussion in good faith approaches impossible.
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We're having a good faith conversation right now. It's totally possible.
I just think it makes some people uncomfortable to grapple with the concept of neutrality.
So they'd prefer to just not deal with it.
It's ok, really.
 
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