Immigration discussion

[tryptakid]

the question is here how covid *also* played into all of this trend?
i distrust statistics i haven't made myself

During the summer time, we see an increase in ice cream consumption and drownings.

One could conclude that ice cream consumption correlates to drowning deaths.

One could also (incorrectly) conclude that ice cream death *causes* drownings.

The maxim - correlation does not mean causation - is applicable here. Ice cream consumption increases in warm weather months as does swimming, which is when people are most at risk from drownings.

Just because we've seen an increase in illegal immigration compared to Bush years, Obama years, and Trump years, has no bearing on whether policies over the past 4 years have anything to do with immigration increases - it's a factor that is most rooted in political instability in regions of origin, climate change rendering food insecurity in hot areas more of a pressing issue, as well as decreased livability as climate patterns change.

Over-simplifying the argument and pointing at one administration as being 'at fault', let alone an intentional effort actively occurring - is myopic at best, and a good way to support bad policy solutions. Trump and his ilk are not vested in improving the lives of Americans, they're invested in improving their own financial and political capital, and sharing it amongst their 1% friends.

@Electrum1 - you are free to believe whatever you want, but this is an issue I directly interface with as a professional every day. If I thought that administration policies were to blame, I would call them out. Plain and simply put, they are not the culprit here and other than 'concepts of a plan' - the folks you so blindly follow have no real solutions.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It's ethnic cleansing ; replacement of the Caucasian population

And white guilt whites celebrate it

It's happening in Europe, Canada and USA

Lack of border security is a huge problem

Whites are replacing themselves by having drastically low and continually decreasing birth rates as well as race mixing.

I think you need to look on the mirror and not blame other races for the declining numbers of white westerners.



Ppl don’t want to feed the capitalism meat grinder and are wising up to it too
.

Whites are free to over reproduce as much as they want; they simply don’t want to.

This is a "problem” of your own doing not someone else’s fault

 

[paltatomate]

Trump and his ilk are not vested in improving the lives of Americans, they're invested in improving their own financial and political capital, and sharing it amongst their 1% friends.

this applies to all political groups.
some might start out with the best interest on their minds, but all end up caught in the net one way or another (or die a political death)
if having to chose between the bad and the ugly, i tend to go with those who at least don't hide (all of) their intentions.

 

[alasdairm]

it may apply to all to some extent but you can't just dismiss everything out of hand as "they're all just bad".

one example which comes to mind immediately is the aca. the aca demonstrably improved the lives of americans by:

• expanding medicaid coverage to more low-income individuals, increasing access to healthcare for millions
  
  
• providing financial assistance to help lower-income individuals buy health insurance via state exchanges
  
  
• preventing insurers from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions
  
  
• mandating that many preventive services be provided at no additional cost

trump spent his entire 2016 campaign talking about how he would repeal the aca and come up with something much better. of course, he never did either but it's crystal clear that trump sees the aca as something that has to go, with absolutely no plan - "concepts of a plan" lmfao - for how to actually improve health care.

alasdair

 

[LucidSDreamr]

this applies to all political groups.
some might start out with the best interest on their minds, but all end up caught in the net one way or another (or die a political death)
if having to chose between the bad and the ugly, i tend to go with those who at least don't hide (all of) their intentions.

We agree that they both are corrupts and out to help the 0.1% and crush the middle class.

However I tend to side with the side that at least is “saying” the right things rather than the side that openly declares their evil intentions.

I guess we’re opposite in that respect.

That’s just economics though.

One side is infected with the cancer of religious zealotry and just look at any theocracy of present or past to see how pleasant and what lack of freedom those types of religious zealots instill when granted political power.

We’re gonna be robbed financially either way; I’d at least like to have some personal freedoms remain not be forced to live under the evangelical equivalent of sharia law

 

[Mjäll]

My country's middle name is How to fail with immigration 101

 

[LucidSDreamr]

• preventing insurers from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions

I would say this is the most important piece political progress I’ve ever seen happen in my lifetime in America.

So many republicans are benefitting from it too; as well as welfare.

They simply hate other races and secular ppl more than they want to survive and be healthy themselves. Hate is blinding and will make you sacrifice yourself just to take out your perceived enemy.

 

[paltatomate]

However I tend to side with the side that at least is “saying” the right things rather than the side that openly declares their evil intentions.

people say a lot, and what should i care about "the right stuff" when in the end it's the actions that matter?
*i need to unwatch this*

 

[tryptakid]

this applies to all political groups.
some might start out with the best interest on their minds, but all end up caught in the net one way or another (or die a political death)
if having to chose between the bad and the ugly, i tend to go with those who at least don't hide (all of) their intentions.

When stated intentions are things like:

'Using the military against Americans including named political officials'

'Becoming a dictator on day one'

'Eliminating established public agencies in favor of personally friendly political appointees'

I would argue that those are all very bad, and which do have precedent - in authoritarian anti-democratic regimes who have ultimately collapsed due to warfare, political instability, or human rights violations.

It's often remarked that socialism/communism is bad because all prior attempts have yielded bad results (I'd argue Vietnam is an actually an outlier here and has shown to be a modern state with a good track record under socialism/communism). The type of rule that is being supported by Musk, Trump, Bannon, etc. is one whose precedents are Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Putin, and the so often glorified Orban.

These are not the inspirational leaders we should be aspiring to move forward with. They are leaders who have cost their societies gravely time and time again. Some of these leaders are in active collusion with MAGA to influence our political system for nefarious benefits. Our own law enforcement and intelligence community has cited numerous examples of interference attempts by Russia and proxy-state interests. The fact that self-described 'patriots' are not worried about this is incredibly troubling.

I find the democratic party in the US to be frustrating at times, I think they don't go far enough with initiatives, while going too far with virtue signalling. I think that they are too friendly with the upper 10% of Americans, while leaving the rest of us more or less unrepresented. Their stated values, however, are generally good: Public benefit over corporate benefit, expansion of services for the public good, and regulatory oversight of government and private sector operations. While I may disagree with them quite often in implementation, I rarely see liberal democracy causing intentional harm to innocents, and I see pathways to course correction.

MAGA is stating, very clearly, the intention to do intentional harm to American citizens. There's no interpretation needed - there is literally face value commentary being actively discussed that is Un-American.


I believe that the US has been an example of what good leadership can be, and it is also an example of the perils of a privileged population that has become insulated from reality and isolated from international perspectives. Travel outside the US and be reminded that so much does not exist in a vacuum or occur only in the West. We are part of a living/breathing symbiotic international community, and we are risking actively harming those people in the interest of pickup trucks, flags, guns, and socialism for corporations/authoritarianism for you and me.

Just my $.02

 

[Electrum1]

During the summer time, we see an increase in ice cream consumption and drownings.

One could conclude that ice cream consumption correlates to drowning deaths.

One could also (incorrectly) conclude that ice cream death *causes* drownings.

The maxim - correlation does not mean causation - is applicable here. Ice cream consumption increases in warm weather months as does swimming, which is when people are most at risk from drownings.

Just because we've seen an increase in illegal immigration compared to Bush years, Obama years, and Trump years, has no bearing on whether policies over the past 4 years have anything to do with immigration increases - it's a factor that is most rooted in political instability in regions of origin, climate change rendering food insecurity in hot areas more of a pressing issue, as well as decreased livability as climate patterns change.

Over-simplifying the argument and pointing at one administration as being 'at fault', let alone an intentional effort actively occurring - is myopic at best, and a good way to support bad policy solutions. Trump and his ilk are not vested in improving the lives of Americans, they're invested in improving their own financial and political capital, and sharing it amongst their 1% friends.

@Electrum1 - you are free to believe whatever you want, but this is an issue I directly interface with as a professional every day. If I thought that administration policies were to blame, I would call them out. Plain and simply put, they are not the culprit here and other than 'concepts of a plan' - the folks you so blindly follow have no real solutions.

I'm not reading all that, but here are a few more of these for you:

 

[alasdairm]

here we go again?

it seems these are the numbers which are being circulated by the trump campaign and right-wing media after tony gonzalez requested stats from u.s. ice.

the dhs has already stated that this data is being misrepresnted.

yes, these numbers are large. and troubling. but apply just a hint of factual analysis and the picture looks pretty different.

most of the 425,000 number were already on ice radar before the biden administration took office! hmm. who was in office before biden took office?

and, before you jump, i'm not blaming trump for this. the fact is that these numbers go back decades. it includes immigrants who've entered the country over the past 40 years or more (and whose custody determination was made long before the bidin administration).

the response from ice went on to say: "We are removing and returning record numbers of migrants who are unable to establish a legal basis to remain in the United States, and prioritizing for removal those who present national security and public safety risks, and recent border crossers. From mid-May 2023 through the end of July 2024, DHS removed or returned more than 893,600 individuals including more than 138,300 individuals in family units. The majority of all individuals encountered at the Southwest Border over the past three years have been removed, returned, or expelled.
...
Despite the challenges of operating within a broken immigration system, and in the face of an enormous workload and consistently limited funding." (my emphasis)

so trying to hang this on harris is, frankly, disingenuous and fucking laughable.

if only congress would pass a bipartisan bill - supported by the nbpc - to address a multitude of issues at the border.

wait. never mind.

alasdair

 

[tryptakid]

I'm not reading all that, but here are a few more of these for you:

It's like 200 words or less... "i'm not reading all that" I'm sorry that it's so hard!

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I'm not reading all that, but here are a few more of these for you:

Of course you’re not reading anything. You’re a Trump supporter.

Reading and digesting information is antithetical to how you ppl operate.

And in maga fashion, your response is a bunch of videos.

You guys just consume information via video format because reading is too much heavy lifting.

You’ll sit through 3 hour podcasts funded by Russia and won’t read a goddam thing ever.

 

[Electrum1]

• Denver City Council has to cut $45 million from its budget, including $8.4m from it Police Department and $2.5m from the Fire Department to pay an estimated $90m bill for migrants.
• New York City is spending $2.3 billion in costs for housing migrants alone in 2023 and 2024, resulting in city agencies having to cut costs by 5%.
• In South Portland, Maine, property taxes have increased to pay for the migrant crisis and the mayor has advised elderly residents to re-mortgage their houses to pay them
• Chicago faces a $1 billion budget gap, partly over migrant services, which it is now scrambling to make up.

Of the federal government’s $67 billion spent in 2023, more than $6.6 billion was earmarked for education and over $25 billion was doled out in medical costs. Federal welfare programs ate up $11.5 billion and law enforcement costs were $23.1 billion, according to the 91-page “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers 2023” report from FAIR.

In New York City more than 210,000 migrants have traveled to the city since the spring of 2022. As The Post has reported, under the sanctuary city’s “right to shelter” policy 150 hotels are currently providing food and rooms for the migrants, who receive between 30 and 60 days of free housing with laundry facilities and help with childcare.

The overall costs to house asylum seekers per night is $352 and spending for 2023 and 2024 is set to surpass a staggering $2.3 billion.

Denver has already spent $70 million on caring for those migrants and introduced an initiative to spend another $90 million in April this year, according to local reports.

Elected officials are having to cut Denver’s emergency services and police to foot the bill.

“Denver City Council faced a requested $45 million cut, $17 million of which came from public safety agencies including Denver Police Department ($8.4 million) and Denver Fire Department ($2. 5 million),” according to a report on its website

In Chicago, mayor Brandon Johnson announced in August the city has a $982m projected budget gap for 2025. Between 2022 and 2024 the city has spent over $400 million on migrants, according to NBC, with $141m spent this year, according to local site WTTW

However, some critics object to taxpayer money allocated to FEMA being used for non-citizens at all, noting how most of it has been given to sanctuary jurisdictions where officials do not cooperate with federal authorities to enforce immigration laws.

“What makes this Biden-Harris botched response unique—and particularly outrageous—is that the same administration claiming it doesn’t have enough money to support suffering Americans appropriated $1.6 billion dollars in FEMA funds to assist illegal aliens since October 2021,” said Kevin Roberts, Heritage Fund president in an article on the conservative think tank’s website

Migrant crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Federal spending on migrants has increased by 45 percent since 2017, topping $150B according to a watchdog group.

nypost.com

 

[paltatomate]

how you ppl operate

i remember writing something similar once, and being called out for it by another user.
he was right in pointing it out.
you can't bunch people like this and expect anyone to feel part of that group (except those who are looking for a reason to feel offended, maybe)

 

[Mjäll]

Here we are being mega reasonably "right wing" (really just not leftist extremist) in Sweden and everyone just points at Trump and be like "wut are you like that or something"

How the fuck do you suck a dick like that

Why does anyone vote for a complete retard moron

 

[Mjäll]

• Denver City Council has to cut $45 million from its budget, including $8.4m from it Police Department and $2.5m from the Fire Department to pay an estimated $90m bill for migrants.
• New York City is spending $2.3 billion in costs for housing migrants alone in 2023 and 2024, resulting in city agencies having to cut costs by 5%.
• In South Portland, Maine, property taxes have increased to pay for the migrant crisis and the mayor has advised elderly residents to re-mortgage their houses to pay them
• Chicago faces a $1 billion budget gap, partly over migrant services, which it is now scrambling to make up.

Migrant crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Federal spending on migrants has increased by 45 percent since 2017, topping $150B according to a watchdog group.

nypost.com

Your trajectory in my view is vertical

"I will post massive walls of text with non fact checked statistics but i will not read a sentence anyone writes"

 

[Electrum1]

It's a summary of the article linked in the same post

 

[Mjäll]

During the summer time, we see an increase in ice cream consumption and drownings.

One could conclude that ice cream consumption correlates to drowning deaths.

One could also (incorrectly) conclude that ice cream death *causes* drownings.

The maxim - correlation does not mean causation - is applicable here. Ice cream consumption increases in warm weather months as does swimming, which is when people are most at risk from drownings.

Just because we've seen an increase in illegal immigration compared to Bush years, Obama years, and Trump years, has no bearing on whether policies over the past 4 years have anything to do with immigration increases - it's a factor that is most rooted in political instability in regions of origin, climate change rendering food insecurity in hot areas more of a pressing issue, as well as decreased livability as climate patterns change.

Over-simplifying the argument and pointing at one administration as being 'at fault', let alone an intentional effort actively occurring - is myopic at best, and a good way to support bad policy solutions. Trump and his ilk are not vested in improving the lives of Americans, they're invested in improving their own financial and political capital, and sharing it amongst their 1% friends.

@Electrum1 - you are free to believe whatever you want, but this is an issue I directly interface with as a professional every day. If I thought that administration policies were to blame, I would call them out. Plain and simply put, they are not the culprit here and other than 'concepts of a plan' - the folks you so blindly follow have no real solutions.

I'm not reading all that, but here are a few more of these for you:

W e a k s a u c e

 

[Mjäll]

Btw did you guys hear about the Mohammed who beheaded a woman in "Algeria" is that even a real country lol wtf

Zero muslim immigrants ftw