Opioids I'm very curious about Ibogaine to treat addiction, but way too scared to try it.

[Bomb319]

The idea that there could be a substance out there that completely resets the entire opioid system of the brain is nothing short of miraculous. It is claimed to not only eliminate cravings, but also eliminate most or all withdrawal symptoms and the hellish process we all know and hate when quitting. One could supposedly be taking 1000 mg of methadone daily for 20 years, and suddenly be completely fine after one ibogaine experience. This is of course fascinating from a pharmacological point of view.

The problem is that I have no interest in hallucinogens whatsoever (too scared to try even shrooms), so one experience with this could psychologically destroy me; it's wayyy too risky. I don't even like smoking WEED because I tend to be very sensitive to hallucinogenic effects of it, and often see elaborate closed-eyed visuals while on a dose that is not particularly strong. I've had several bad trips and tend toward anxiety when I smoke it. In fact, hallucinogens are pretty much the ONLY class of drugs I haven't really tried (except weed), nor have any interest in trying. As for Ibogaine - the idea of ego death, tripping for 3 straight days on a substance much more powerful than LSD, is a total deal-breaker. Yet if it really works the way it has been said to work on the opiate system, it could potentially free me from years of addiction.

Does anyone actually have direct experience with this, and is this potential "reset mechanism" just way overblown?

 

[TheLostBoys]

Did you ever see that documentary done on addicts going thru the ibogaine treatment?

No thanks, I will do it the old fashion way......a benzo for sleep, immodium a few days, & eating healthy, & plenty of fluids.

That ibogaine is some nasty stuff to go thru.......

 

[TheLostBoys]

LSD has been used to treat alcoholism, & other addictions.......

Shrooms can be tricky, I've had 2 bad trips on them & will never touch them again.......LSD had pretty good trips, & since it cured others with their addictions, I'm sure since it was done by a medical staff, there were other steps involved.

 

[d1ahp]

Did you ever see that documentary done on addicts going thru the ibogaine treatment?

No thanks, I will do it the old fashion way......a benzo for sleep, immodium a few days, & eating healthy, & plenty of fluids.

That ibogaine is some nasty stuff to go thru.......

What's the name of that documentary? Sounds interesting, I want to check it out.

I'm far more curious about Heantos than Ibogaine because tripping is not my thing.

 

[Bomb319]

I haven't seen any videos, but I've certainly read a lot about it. I know that many people praise it as a drug that can completely change one's outlook on life for the better, and result in extremely intense spiritual experiences. Yet its effects would still be dependent on what your attitude toward it is, and any degree of fear or reluctance may also destroy you. When it comes down to it, any hallucinogen is really not so much "mystical or spiritual" when it comes to its physical mechanism of action. It simply dramatically changes perception by profoundly but usually temporarily altering the brain chemically. Despite positive reports by some, I really do not want to experience "ego death" forever, or fundamentally alter my consciousness for good even if it DID produce overall positive changes. The idea is scary, I am NOT open to it and don't want to be. I'm an introvert and a thinker; my inner monologue and cognitive processes are everything to me, and I would never risk them for anything.

I can understand why some people might, and why they might try to convince people like me to just bite the bullet and do it. But I am absolutely not interested, and doubt I ever will be. I'm open-minded enough to allow for the possibility that my views could conceivably change some day, but for now - no thanks. I'd take cold turkey methadone withdrawal at 220 mg/day over fucking around with something like this. Sure I'd be in hell for a month or more, but at least I would keep my mind.

That said, if pharmacologists eventually DO manage to create an Ibogaine analogue that retains or improves the opiate disrupting functions while completely eliminating the phychedelic and emetic ones, I'd be all over it. Such a drug sounds way too good to be true, however.

 

[pinpoint]

I have read that it has been speculated for many years now that Heantos actually contains kratom, which would make Heantos yet another opioid substitute. I remember the UN had a program back during the Clinton administration that had set aside some US$2 million in funding for research but not much has materialized other than a web2.0 cookie-cutter website with some dude's AOL.com email and cell number.. seems legit.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I have met people who took Ibogaine for heroin/opiate addiction multiple times. They said how it did not work to stop their addiction or from them using opiates, and that getting off heroin or opiates cold turkey was far more effective.

I know someone who is not addicted to opiates at all; but who wants to take Ibogaine just to see what it will do to them. But they're a bit off and believe what they experience on psychedelics is more real than reality itself, and they are into all sort of research chems and assume that they're pretty safe.

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

I've not used Ibogaine before, but I would be more concerned about physical complications than lasting psychological damage. It's risky no matter which way you look at it, but so is being addicted to opiates. I can only imagine Ibogaine works, or, has a lasting effect, if you truly want to stop using and believe it can help you. The pharmacological reset mechanism is interesting, but once the experience is over, there's not much to stop you from picking up the habit again. I'm sure you understand the physical addiction is only part of it, psychological and environmental factors play an important role too.

I've read reports of people claiming it to be a miracle as well as those who didn't find it helpful at all, so it's hard to say how it might work for any individual. If you feel more comfortable with maintenance or cold turkey then I would stick with that because other than its effect on opiate receptors, I don't think Ibogaine is the magic bullet it's sometimes purported to be. Others may disagree, especially if it's helped them, but statistically speaking, it isn't 100% effective at "curing" opiate addiction.

 

[tracedwards313]

I think some of you have a misunderstanding when it come to the "ego-death". But whatever I dont feel like going into that.

Ibogain is a very amazing thing. But you have to understand that it is a very difficult drug for even experienced/recreational psychedelic drug users.

There are 2 reasons it can be so effective concerning opiate addiction. First, the after effects are great because ibogain works similar too that of an opiate- antagonist for around 16 weeks after the trip. Meaning you wont go through opiate withdraw, crave, or even be able to get high during that time. Allowing users to have the much need time for there bodies to reset.

Second, is the trip itself. It is going to literally scare the fucking shit out of you. You will have to face your demons and it wont be your descion. You will experience things that I cant justly describe with my petty human language. But, it wont be fun and you will NEVER want to experience it again. It can and probably will CHANGE you forever. That scares some people, but I promise you it should not. When it does finally end, after a time you will begin to understand the experience that you went through. Having an experienced ibogain counselor to talk to is considered a important part of the experience, for many reason. Many people find a clearer view of life and their mistakes and find motivation, where before there was frustration.

I love psychedelics and have used a various assortment of them throughout my life. I have learned so much about myself and "God". People who dont "like" these drugs need to understand so much. Psychedelic drugs are meant to be respected, they are not party drugs. Yes, they can be extremely enjoyable but if dont respect the power they have you will not only have a terrifying experience, you could lose a true sacred gift to mankind.

I feel so lucky to be the person that I am, it was a long time before I could say that because of my mistakes in life. Now I can see everything that is.

I took Ibogain in 2012

 

[Freaksh0w]

I remember first hearing about Ibogaine back maybe around 2003 or 2004. It was being praised to help people stop smoking. That taking it for one to three days made people lose the urge to continue smoking cigarettes.

As far as quitting opiates, I've read much about that, too. And I still don't know what to believe. If I had just 50% belief that it'd get me off bupe, then I'd give it a shot. I just don't believe it, yet.

Another thing they mentioned, which reminded me of most psychedelics and how people tend to see the same things, is that Ibogaine caused people to hear drums. African drums or something to that effect. Also, they saw African face sculptures. But, of course, if I 100% believed that people saw that stuff on it, I'd have a better view of it actually being able to do something.

Just like a good shroom trip can change the way you eat, act, and think. This maybe could do the same. I just can't believe it, yet.

 

[adder]

(...) No thanks, I will do it the old fashion way......a benzo for sleep, immodium a few days, & eating healthy, & plenty of fluids. (...)

Going cold turkey or slowly tapering down is fine as long as you haven't sunk in for good. If you've been addicted to opioids for years, then another CT or another taper may not change anything at all no matter how sure you are you're never going to touch opioids again. Ibogaine should really be considered as a last resort.

I'd love to see some serious research into derivatives that are more selective for α3β4 nicotinic receptors. They've already been developed (e.g. 18-MC, 18-MAC) and they show very good efficacy in animals, so why not conduct a research on humans? What's surprising is that the affinity to opioid receptors is low and they rather exhibit antagonistic properties. The effectiveness of ibogaine and related compounds seems to be unrelated to their efficacy at opioid receptors at all.

 

[662]

man i did and i was so tired so i ate 10 325 7 hours before hand and ate the concentrate that cost me 500, my ears ringed for ears. that stuff is so heavy, did i get high again? yes i did..

 

[Keif' Richards]

I hear ibogaine is a near-miracle substance. In the very least, I hear a good deal more stories of success than failure.

I've thought about trying it, but it seems to be pretty far out of reach with me being too irresponsible to save a single dollar and living in the United States where it's illegal. That means on top of paying cash for treatment, I've also gotta come up with money for travel. I imagine it comes to thousands in the end.

Also, I'm particularly terrified about going through a psychedelic experience of any kind while in the throws of withdrawal.

 

[Bomb319]

Sorry, guys...I totally forgot about this topic. Thanks for the replies!

I think some of you have a misunderstanding when it come to the "ego-death". But whatever I dont feel like going into that.

Ibogain is a very amazing thing. But you have to understand that it is a very difficult drug for even experienced/recreational psychedelic drug users.

There are 2 reasons it can be so effective concerning opiate addiction. First, the after effects are great because ibogain works similar too that of an opiate- antagonist for around 16 weeks after the trip. Meaning you wont go through opiate withdraw, crave, or even be able to get high during that time. Allowing users to have the much need time for there bodies to reset.

Second, is the trip itself. It is going to literally scare the fucking shit out of you. You will have to face your demons and it wont be your descion. You will experience things that I cant justly describe with my petty human language. But, it wont be fun and you will NEVER want to experience it again. It can and probably will CHANGE you forever. That scares some people, but I promise you it should not. When it does finally end, after a time you will begin to understand the experience that you went through. Having an experienced ibogain counselor to talk to is considered a important part of the experience, for many reason. Many people find a clearer view of life and their mistakes and find motivation, where before there was frustration.

I love psychedelics and have used a various assortment of them throughout my life. I have learned so much about myself and "God". People who dont "like" these drugs need to understand so much. Psychedelic drugs are meant to be respected, they are not party drugs. Yes, they can be extremely enjoyable but if dont respect the power they have you will not only have a terrifying experience, you could lose a true sacred gift to mankind.

I feel so lucky to be the person that I am, it was a long time before I could say that because of my mistakes in life. Now I can see everything that is.

I took Ibogain in 2012

There's no way ibogaine can be an antagonist as you say - since that would immediately produce horrible precipitated withdrawal in anybody even slightly dependant on opioids. Antagonists block the receptors entirely, and may or may not inversely activate them. The currently accepted MOA of iboga alkaloid as far as I know is that it is a powerful NMDA receptor antagonist (but again, this is NOT an opiate receptor). Evidence points to NMDA as being powerfully implicated in tolerance circuitry. It is possible and in fact likely that a "flood dose" of Iboga dramatically interferes with circuitry controlling the opiate system, effectively allowing your brain to "forget" that it has been habituated to an exogenous source of the neurotransmitter. Exactly how this happens is currently unknown.

At any rate, this has enormous potential to treat even the most heavily-addicted opiate addict. Far more effective than drugs that act as simple maintenancr chemicals to perpetuate the addiction in a legal and relatively unstigmatized form, people following Iboga treatment claim that they had become indifferent to opiates essentially overnight. If you're interested in the pharmacological basis of addiction, do some research on a compound called delta FoSB. It's overexpression is the root cause of addiction and has found to be present in every single addictive behavior known to man - including shopping, sex, gambling, and all other behavioral as well as drug addictions.

Targeting FoSB is likely the greatest potential to eliminate addiction entirely, as even early experiments show that obsessive-compulsive drug-seeking behavior is dependant on the levels of this molecule in the brain, and reversed in its absence. It's FAR more promising than any other current avenue of research, including Ibogaine. In fact, there is a possibility that Ibogaine itself works in part or primarily by directly reducing FoSB in the nucleus accumbens (the seat of the reward center in the brain).

 

[Bambooshoot]

I think some of you have a misunderstanding when it come to the "ego-death". But whatever I dont feel like going into that.

Ibogain is a very amazing thing. But you have to understand that it is a very difficult drug for even experienced/recreational psychedelic drug users.

There are 2 reasons it can be so effective concerning opiate addiction. First, the after effects are great because ibogain works similar too that of an opiate- antagonist for around 16 weeks after the trip. Meaning you wont go through opiate withdraw, crave, or even be able to get high during that time. Allowing users to have the much need time for there bodies to reset.

Second, is the trip itself. It is going to literally scare the fucking shit out of you. You will have to face your demons and it wont be your descion. You will experience things that I cant justly describe with my petty human language. But, it wont be fun and you will NEVER want to experience it again. It can and probably will CHANGE you forever. That scares some people, but I promise you it should not. When it does finally end, after a time you will begin to understand the experience that you went through. Having an experienced ibogain counselor to talk to is considered a important part of the experience, for many reason. Many people find a clearer view of life and their mistakes and find motivation, where before there was frustration.

I love psychedelics and have used a various assortment of them throughout my life. I have learned so much about myself and "God". People who dont "like" these drugs need to understand so much. Psychedelic drugs are meant to be respected, they are not party drugs. Yes, they can be extremely enjoyable but if dont respect the power they have you will not only have a terrifying experience, you could lose a true sacred gift to mankind.

I feel so lucky to be the person that I am, it was a long time before I could say that because of my mistakes in life. Now I can see everything that is.

I took Ibogain in 2012

This is a fantastic thread. I have to agree, introspection can be terrifying but that's the point to kick our asses out of our opiate induced stupor. some great points on both sides thought. And good on you for looking the bull in the eye. If I could afford it, I would.

 

[Bambooshoot]

I think some of you have a misunderstanding when it come to the "ego-death". But whatever I dont feel like going into that.

Ibogain is a very amazing thing. But you have to understand that it is a very difficult drug for even experienced/recreational psychedelic drug users.

There are 2 reasons it can be so effective concerning opiate addiction. First, the after effects are great because ibogain works similar too that of an opiate- antagonist for around 16 weeks after the trip. Meaning you wont go through opiate withdraw, crave, or even be able to get high during that time. Allowing users to have the much need time for there bodies to reset.

Second, is the trip itself. It is going to literally scare the fucking shit out of you. You will have to face your demons and it wont be your descion. You will experience things that I cant justly describe with my petty human language. But, it wont be fun and you will NEVER want to experience it again. It can and probably will CHANGE you forever. That scares some people, but I promise you it should not. When it does finally end, after a time you will begin to understand the experience that you went through. Having an experienced ibogain counselor to talk to is considered a important part of the experience, for many reason. Many people find a clearer view of life and their mistakes and find motivation, where before there was frustration.

I love psychedelics and have used a various assortment of them throughout my life. I have learned so much about myself and "God". People who dont "like" these drugs need to understand so much. Psychedelic drugs are meant to be respected, they are not party drugs. Yes, they can be extremely enjoyable but if dont respect the power they have you will not only have a terrifying experience, you could lose a true sacred gift to mankind.

I feel so lucky to be the person that I am, it was a long time before I could say that because of my mistakes in life. Now I can see everything that is.

I took Ibogain in 2012

This is a fantastic thread. I have to agree, introspection can be terrifying but that's the point to kick our asses out of our opiate induced stupor. Some great points on both sides though. And good on you for looking the bull in the eye. If I could afford it, I would.

 

[totach]

It didnt work for me but i know a few people that it did work for
I took the trip in costa rica two summers ago it was pretty intense for about 24 hours
But i forgot most of my trip apparently it happens to a small percentage of trippers maybe thats why it didnt work for me
I would try again if i had the oppertunity eventho im clean now for over 4 months on my own
I would forsure suggest it to someone if they were interested only because i have a few good friends that swear by it

 

[Jordan Stevens]

I've heard that true flooding is terrifying. I just started ibo root bark, not to get off drugs, but for pain, to reset my brain and get the psycho-spiritual benefits. Detoxed off of a high dose of oxy using Heantos, slept a lot, then took a few every night for almost two months. Now I only take Heantos for cravings every once in a while. The advice I just got from an ibo center in Canada is that Heantos and iboga play well together. No bad interactions. I might try ibo in AM and Heantos in PM... I know that two inspiring psychonauts from that Heantos Info support FB group who have taken them this AM/PM way to eliminate post acute withdrawals after their floods.

 

[Bropiace]

Interesting reading. All of it.

I would also be interested in hearing more about the FoSB thing if anyone feels like sharing the results of their own research.