Heroin I'm getting a strong rush from H, despite being on 220 mg of methadone.

[Bomb319]

and often I combine doses so I'm taking even more. It's certainly no placebo, as I felt it kick in at a discrete time and it also noticeably shrank my pupils. I knew it was supposedly good quality beforehand, and I even feel it well after the initial rush.

Ever since I first went on methadone a year and a half ago, I have had some problems with withdrawal quite soon afterwards; for example if I go just one day without my regular dose, I will start to get w/d of varying intensity - though often enough to produce extreme cold sweats and goosebumps, huge pupils and even sneezing fits. I did not take any other drug with it (until very recently when I did this "experiment"). I also seem to be resistant to the effects of methadone that are commonly thought to be reduced or eliminated right away; I get quite a strong and pleasant rush when it kicks in which gives me a lot of energy and makes me very talkative/euphoric. It also lasts for the rest of the day until I go to sleep, although nowhere near as powerful as after the first couple hours. This effect of methadone hasn't really seemed to fade much over time and I have been on this dose for 8 months or so.

So do you think that taking into account both of these factors, I just tend to metabolize methadone very quickly or something? I was always under the impression that a dose so strong should completely negate any other opiate if consumed. Now it certainly isn't nearly as strong or as lasting as it would be if I had no tolerance, yet it is unquestionably much stronger today after having no dose of methadone as compared to yesterday when I still could feel it, but weakly.

Is anyone able to explain this?? I just want to be on something that can properly hold me until my next dose without strong cravings. Methadone does do that, but still wears off too quickly and still somehow is allowing other opiates in.

 

[Demigodz4Life]

Any other meds or otc supplements? I remember reading certain things can vastly effect methadone metabolism, but I'm no expert. If LAAM was still avaliable that'd probably be your best bet.

 

[Bomb319]

I take diphenhydramine habitually for sleep. I've heard it can both potentiate opiates and cause them to be metabolized quicker, but I take it nightly and have done so for many years.

 

[OntarioGuy]

Im a lot like you it seems.I've been on methadone for years and it still gets me high every single day. Im only at 120 mgs though,which is still very high. But ya I can only get the rush when I shoot some H/morphine/Dilaudid, no high to speak of after....for example a while back I skipped my methadone dose for 2 days to experiment.50 hours without methadone and 120 mgs of IV hydromorphone (solution made with 4 30mg hydromorph contins) and I got a decent rush and felt the discomfort I was begin to feel subside, but no high. I ended up dosing my juice soon after.

I did manage to get high on fentanyl tho.I had several 500 mcg blotters. I ran out of my take homes a day early.I simply put 6 of the 500 mic blotters in a cook spoon with warm water and stirred and smashed it up. Drew it up and banged it and got a great rush and high

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

How the fuck are you on 220?
that shit crazy.
that is all.

 

[OntarioGuy]

^^^I was at 200 at one time....when ur morning fix is 600 mgs of IV morphine or 90 mgs of IV hydromorphone it takes a lot to hold you

 

[sekio]

There is no magical "blocking" effect with methadone, it's just a misinterpretation of the fact that it generally allows people to stabilize at opioid doses that make a normal bag of street heroin look like a single ibuprofen.

So do you think that taking into account both of these factors, I just tend to metabolize methadone very quickly or something?

Yup. You're not the only one this happens to either, a lot of people on higher doses of 'done can be screwed by their own metabolism. The simple solution: you need to see about getting divided doses of methadone somehow. Even though it's usually a lot of hoops to jump through.

If memory serves, methadone is a drug with "nonlinear pharmacokinetics" e.g. it's really hard to predict metabolism, because if you take larger doses then it induces the enzymes that metabolize it, decreasing blood levels and you get a vicious cycle. So by that logic maybe you should investigate enzyme inhibitors - very, very carefully! - or, somewhat counterintuitively, reduce your methadone dose to a much lower level for a few weeks (i can hear you rolling your eyes from here ) and hope your enzymes calm down a bit.

(Kinda makes you wish there was such a thing as an injectable opioid depot shot. We can somehow make shots to keep constant blood levels of steroids, horomones, even antipsychotics, how about a LAAM ester shot?)

 

[Bomb319]

There is no magical "blocking" effect with methadone, it's just a misinterpretation of the fact that it generally allows people to stabilize at opioid doses that make a normal bag of street heroin look like a single ibuprofen.



Yup. You're not the only one this happens to either, a lot of people on higher doses of 'done can be screwed by their own metabolism. The simple solution: you need to see about getting divided doses of methadone somehow. Even though it's usually a lot of hoops to jump through.

If memory serves, methadone is a drug with "nonlinear pharmacokinetics" e.g. it's really hard to predict metabolism, because if you take larger doses then it induces the enzymes that metabolize it, decreasing blood levels and you get a vicious cycle. So by that logic maybe you should investigate enzyme inhibitors - very, very carefully! - or, somewhat counterintuitively, reduce your methadone dose to a much lower level for a few weeks (i can hear you rolling your eyes from here ) and hope your enzymes calm down a bit.

(Kinda makes you wish there was such a thing as an injectable opioid depot shot. We can somehow make shots to keep constant blood levels of steroids, horomones, even antipsychotics, how about a LAAM ester shot?)

Wow, this is very informative. Thanks to all who have replied As for the above, I guess that makes sense to a degree however even if there were a natural negative feedback mechanism with methadobne such as this, I would still think that it would tend to hold you for longer than half your dose would, even if it doesn't increase in a direct linear relationship. Who knows though? If anyone has any experience regarding the diphenydramine and its effect on it, I would be very interested to know this! It would certainly not be easy to just stop taking it (or dimenhydrinate - they both aare the same essential drug or metabolite) after nearly 15 years of nightly dosing. Even though there are many times when I don't fall asleep until long after it has kicked in and therefore received no direct benefit from it, my nightly ritual of taking it is enormously powerful in regard to whether and when I fall asleep. Often (most of the time) if I don't fall asleep after a single dose and I have been up for awhile, I will take more. Just doing this will relieve related anxiety knowing I took it am and therefore "primed" for sleep, and often do sleep shortly thereafter.

I'm still not sure what to do about the 'done though...I really REALLY don't want to go back to using H, and I xconsider having done so a major setback which is actually depressing the hell out of me. Methadone is normally just fine - until I start double-dosing and going days without, rationalizing it by assuring myself that I won't need it that much the next day The root problem seems to be simply that I have NO control whatsoever over any opiate use. If I have some in the house, whether it's methadone or heroin I have a compulsion to use it - even if I feel fine or even high. It actually gives me anxiety to try going to bed while knowing I have a usable drug with me. The tension builds until I crack and take it - loweiring my anxiety but repeating the cycle. It's crazy I can only relax once I know there's nothing left to do and I can therefore finally sleep, as I have no "decision" to make about it. Does anyone else know what I mean, or am I just weird with that?

 

[Bomb319]

Also I'm absolutely dreading my doctor's appointment tomorrow. I'm going to of course test positive for opiates, despite not having used for months and I feel terrible about it. I really do think I'd be absolutely fine as long as I have no cash to go buy more H and hopefully raised my dose...however I don't know how they will react over it...I'm probably going to lose my take-home doses, and that really sucks I just really hope it doesn't go further than that...hopefully the doctors know that relapse is a common part of treatment and that I'm not necessarily Satan incarnate for finally cracking. I really and truly generally prefer methadone to heroin because of its ease of administration, length of effect and especially the consistency and purity compared to dope. Who knows if they will believe me, though

 

[OntarioGuy]

^^^typically they just penalize you a take home or two ime.sometimes all of them, but most doctors won't cut you off cold turkey, relapse must be very common in their profession. Also alot of doctors look at your history. If you are a model patient and have one dirty for the first time in four years, you might get more lenient treatment then if you constantly pissed dirty.