Benzos I'm done with benzos

[jonny1]

I've been on Clonazepam for the past 10 months, averaging about 0.5mg/day, which isn't bad. Recently, however, i discovered Etizolam about 3 weeks ago and have been taking anywhere from 2-9mg daily, lately on the higher side. I also have Phenibut but i only take it a few times a week.

Well tonight, I took 1.5mg Clonazepam, 7mg Etizolam, and 1.5g of Phenibut and I didn't feel that high I usually get. That is when i realized i need to stop this shit, so i put together a taper plan.

Week 1: 0.25mg Clonazepam, 1mg Etizolam
Week 2: 0.25mg Clonazepam, 0.5mg Etizolam
Week 3: 0.125mg Clonazepam, no Etizolam
Week 4: 0.125mg Clonazepam
Week 5: 0.0625mg Clonazepam
Week 6: OFF

Is this a safe taper? I'm just afraid of seizures, not so much rebound anxiety.

Any feedback on the taper schedule or on any of this would be of great help. Thanks.

 

[Tryptamite]

I would definitely take it slower with that taper mate. Anxiety is only a part of it, most people find the physical symtptoms to be more distressing

i am back on benzos myself 2 days after 2 weeks cold turkry. My stomach and gi issues have not yet resolved themselves yet although i do feel better.

I would look to another member for taper advice i plan to stay on them for a while before tapering slowly slowly.
My only other experience is cold turkeying off extended binges, the WDs far outliving the time spent on the benzos in the first place.

 

[uno22]

Why don't you continue your .5 mg clonazepam and just get off the etiz first? Maybe just take .5mg klon, 4mg etiz the first week, 2mg etiz the second week, 1mg the third, then .5mg and then just take .5mg klon, .25, .125 and then off?

 

[RTrain]

Why don't you continue your .5 mg clonazepam and just get off the etiz first? Maybe just take .5mg klon, 4mg etiz the first week, 2mg etiz the second week, 1mg the third, then .5mg and then just take .5mg klon, .25, .125 and then off?

I think ^this is probably the best idea. Sounds like your plan is a drastic cut in the Etizolam, so cutting the clonazepam by 50% is going to be pretty rough. Taking it slower and 1 at a time is probably I good idea.

 

[MagickalKat777]

That's WAY too fast of a taper. Klonopin itself is the biggest bitch I've ever had to kick, even with moving over to Valium I still had withdrawals from the Klonopin.

Since you don't really know your etiz usage pattern, I would do this:

Week 1 - .5mg K, 3mg Etiz
Week 2 - .5mg K, 2mg Etiz
See how you feel at the end of Week 2 because that's about when you'll start noticing the drop from the 3mg and the early part of the 2mg - if you feel fine, then continue to the next step otherwise hold for another week
Week 3 (or 4) - .5mg K, 1mg Etiz
(same thing here)
Next - .5mg K, .5mg Etiz
Next - .5mg K, .25mg Etiz
Next - .5mg K, stop Etiz
Hold for two weeks and proceed

Here is where it gets tricky. 10 months with an average of .5mg a day means that you are most likely dependent on an equivalent valium dose of 10mg a day, maybe 5mg if you are lucky (K can be somewhat variable - for me, 1mg of K = 20mg of Valium). This is more than enough to cause seizures from withdrawal.

From the .5mg point, I would honestly see if switching to Valium would be ideal - get the 2mg pills and make a 1mg cut per week once you're stabilized on a dose (5mg *should* be enough, I've been on benzos since 2004 so my brain is far worse off than yours would be but like I said, Klonopin is a nasty drug to try to taper from so 10mg might be smart just in case - Valium's long half-life is helpful either way) and make sure that you split the dose so you take it every twelve hours.

If you are not able to get Valium then you're going to have to work with the pills. I'm assuming your tablets are .5s so this will follow the .5s

Again, split the dose into every twelve hours.

1st and 2nd week - .375mg (take .125 in the morning, .25 at night)
3rd and 4th week - .25
4th and 5th week - .125
6th and 7th week - .0625 at night
8th week - stop

Something else to make sure throughout the process and for at least a month afterwards (preferably 2 to 3) - no phenibut, no alcohol, no other benzos, no Ambien/Lunesta/other non-BZD hypnotics (trazodone works well if you can't sleep and isn't narcotic), no Neurontin, Lyrica, valerian, kava, chamomile, ashwaganda, or anything else that has an effect on GABA or you can risk going into protracted withdrawal syndrome. I've had it and its a nightmare - the only way to get it to end is to go back on benzos and start over - I'm currently 6 weeks into my taper and I'm having to go slower than previously because everything reset from just one night of drinking. Benzos are a bitch.

If you think this is an extreme taper, you clearly don't know how miserable going down too quickly really is. The lovely stories on benzobuddies would certainly enlighten you.

Best of luck!

 

[bdomihizayka]

If you're just afraid of seizures, why not just get on a seizure med from the doc and cold turkey the benzos? But in all seriousness, I would take your time tapering... as everyone else said, the withdrawal seems to last wayyyy longer than the actual time on the drugs, and can be especially harsh if cold turkied... why not switch to Valium and make a proper slow taper as 1mg k = 20mg valium....it's easier to make more precise cuts..

 

[MagickalKat777]

If you're just afraid of seizures, why not just get on a seizure med from the doc and cold turkey the benzos? But in all seriousness, I would take your time tapering... as everyone else said, the withdrawal seems to last wayyyy longer than the actual time on the drugs, and can be especially harsh if cold turkied... why not switch to Valium and make a proper slow taper as 1mg k = 20mg valium....it's easier to make more precise cuts..

The irony of getting an anti-seizure med from the doc is they tend to use Depakote which itself has actions on GABA and its own horrible withdrawals. *eye roll*

Tegretol, Trileptal, Depakote, and even Lithium can actually be a bitch to get off of after using them to taper benzos just the same as *insertantidepressantddrugthatdoesntworkbetterthanplacebohere*

When you're in benzo withdrawal, your brain will try to latch on to anything to get relief. I was in the psych ward and they started giving me Geodon after they did a rapid detox off daily 4mg a day of Klonopin... First time I took it, 20mg... Then the next day I needed it again, got 20mg and then later I felt like I was on fire from the nerves burning so I BEGGED them to give me a 20mg shot, next day 60mg didn't do anything but blow my pupils, make me hallucinate, and shoot my heart rate to 190 resting... It took me two weeks after getting out of that hospital and reinstating my benzos before the Geodon withdrawal went away. Its nuts how strong the addiction really is.

I have become addicted to many things - and every single time, I have quit cold turkey. Benzos? I've been fighting to get off of them since 2010. This time I'm augmenting my taper with very low-dose Delsym (like 5mL twice a day) and that seems to be helping, especially with the panic department but fuck... I see why people say they'd withdraw from heroin a hundred times before ever going through benzo withdrawal again... I have given up so many times in the years of trying to get off of them because the taper can just get to the point that I don't care anymore... you have to be really strong willed to do it. I tried switching over to neurontin for the taper but I'm hypersensitive to it.

People tell me just to switch benzos or go up in the dose (I was taking 20mg of Valium, I'm down to 15mg now) but without ever abusing them, I ended up on 8mg of Xanax a day, then cut that to 4mg of Klonopin a day, got down to 3mg then that stopped working so we upped it to 4mg again, stopped working in less than a week and not even 6mg would touch me so we moved me to 60mg of Valium and I rapid-tapered using memantine to 15mg, had a series of absence seizures, and went up to 20mg and stayed there for these past few years with a day or so a month where I would take 30mg but Valium doesn't do shit for my agoraphobia or GAD, just panic, so I haven't been able to work since 2010.

I'd like to punch the doctor in the face for putting me on Xanax in 2004 without ever telling me any of the risks involved. I learned pretty quickly. >=/

 

[bdomihizayka]

When you're in benzo withdrawal, your brain will try to latch on to anything to get relief.

I am intrigued by that proposition. When I was withdrawaling from klonopin, I dove head first into opiates for relief. I would start out with a single 30... then wait a week between use and try again and realize I needed 2 30s... and before I knew it, in less than 3 FUCKING MONTHS I was up to about 400mg of oxycodone to get high, not taking the drug daily, EVER... And what blows my mind is I know people who haven't passed the 100mg threshold who have used for years and I fucking got blessed with needing a pharmacy's supply to get high......

interesting....

And I totally feel for you dude, for being caught in the benzo merry go round MagickalKat... my heart seriously goes out for you.... I was put on klonopin because it wasn't addictive like xanax and valium..... I wish I knew....

 

[habsfan89]

hi, im new on this site, ive been on Klonopin for maybe 4 years, but there were many period where i wouldnt take any benzos for like 6 months, but smoked lot of weed. But since 1 year, i stopped weed and was very anxious, so ive been taken klonapin at list 2 times a weeks, but for the last 4 months ive been taking 1mg a day 4-5 days per week.

now i want get off them, will i experience wthdrawal? if yes, how i can get off them without having seizure and or terrible withdrawal?

 

[MagickalKat777]

I am intrigued by that proposition. When I was withdrawaling from klonopin, I dove head first into opiates for relief. I would start out with a single 30... then wait a week between use and try again and realize I needed 2 30s... and before I knew it, in less than 3 FUCKING MONTHS I was up to about 400mg of oxycodone to get high, not taking the drug daily, EVER... And what blows my mind is I know people who haven't passed the 100mg threshold who have used for years and I fucking got blessed with needing a pharmacy's supply to get high......

interesting....

And I totally feel for you dude, for being caught in the benzo merry go round MagickalKat... my heart seriously goes out for you.... I was put on klonopin because it wasn't addictive like xanax and valium..... I wish I knew....

Yeah, when NMDA is out of control like it is with benzo withdrawal, your brain goes into fix it mode - anything that will give it relief to try to get back to the level that it was last stable at, it will latch on to and tolerance will build insanely fast to that substance as both NMDA and AMPA are involved in tolerance and withdrawal of just about everything. This is why dextromethorphan, ketamine, memantine, PCP, MXE, and other NMDA antagonists when taken on a consistent basis prevent the build-up and sometimes even reverse tolerance. Methadone is an NMDA antagonist in its own right which is why it is rare for methadone to have to be increased unless someone is taking other opiates when they aren't supposed to be and some doctors now prescribe Namenda (an NMDA antagonist that has no psychotomimetic properties unless at insanely high doses) alongside Adderall to prevent tolerance development.

Its a fascinating area of study... But it shows even more why benzos are so dangerous - not only does NMDA have a lot of involvement with many of the physical withdrawal symptoms from the GABA deficit left behind by longterm benzodiazepines as a result of GABA down-regulation but it also is involved with any new addictions that are formed as a result of trying to cope with the withdrawal symptoms.

I was on Depakote for a week during my last detox and that was enough for my brain to get hooked - I missed one day after I got out of the hospital and the withdrawal set in immediately the next morning and never stopped. Depakote withdrawal mimics benzo withdrawal in a lot of ways so it was a double whammy disaster.

This up-regulation of NMDA can also explain why people can be benzo free for months, have a single drink of alcohol, and end up in full-blown protracted withdrawal the next day. Its ridiculous how sensitive the GABAergic and glutamate systems get when it comes to benzos.

I feel for you too bdomihizayka, I was told Xanax wasn't addictive. -.-

hi, im new on this site, ive been on Klonopin for maybe 4 years, but there were many period where i wouldnt take any benzos for like 6 months, but smoked lot of weed. But since 1 year, i stopped weed and was very anxious, so ive been taken klonapin at list 2 times a weeks, but for the last 4 months ive been taking 1mg a day 4-5 days per week.

now i want get off them, will i experience wthdrawal? if yes, how i can get off them without having seizure and or terrible withdrawal?

To be honest with you, there is no guarantee that you will have terrible withdrawal. If you weren't taking it every single day, there's a chance that you won't suffer much at all. Its generally daily users that get hooked. If you are able to go 3 days without it in a week, I would say you could try cutting your dose in half on days you take it and see what happens. I don't have much experience with tapering when not on a daily dose to be honest.

 

[habsfan89]

ok thanks you!

 

[jonny1]

I actually lied, I average .25mg a day, I said 0.5 because I usually take half a pill . I took a week off twice since ive been on it and survived even with the terrible anxiety. Maybe if I just cut it in half every two weeks til its gone? Would that be safe ?

 

[jonny1]

Also, maybe I could use the etizolam to help with the kpin withdrawals? I use kpins therapeutically, but I've been using etizolam for recreation but I can easily put a stop to that

 

[jonny1]

Also how should I use the phenibut?

 

[MagickalKat777]

Don't use phenibut at all unless you are already addicted to it - GABA-B withdrawal is worse than GABA-A and dealing with both at the same time, I couldn't even imagine... Just like people who stupidly try to use baclofen to lessen the blow from GABA-A withdrawal they find themselves in a huge world of hurt.

I don't know the equivalency of etiz to klonopin or even if etiz will substitute for klonopin. If you're taking a quarter milligram of Klonopin a day, I doubt you're going to have much withdrawal from that - I'd try to cut it in half and see how that effects you but not until you're off of the etiz for a week or two - there might be some noticeable withdrawal from the etiz though. Its hard to tell because you don't have a definite answer as to how much you've actually been using and there isn't a whole lot of information on how long it takes a thienoBZD to develop an addiction.

Here's the big problem with benzos though, particularly Klonopin - the withdrawals get much worse over time and if you have to reinstate, it can take days of additional agony before you stabilize again because your plasma levels have to go back up. This process also can lead to the dreaded protracted withdrawal syndrome which would make it even more difficult to get off the benzos again.

It really takes a lot to safely get off these meds and then you have to avoid all GABAergics for a period of time as well after the fact, a month or two at the very least.

 

[habsfan89]

hi, im new on this site, ive been on Klonopin for maybe 4 years, but there were many period where i wouldnt take any benzos for like 6 months, but smoked lot of weed. But since 1 year, i stopped weed and was very anxious, so ive been taken klonapin at list 2 times a weeks, but for the last 4 months ive been taking 1mg a day 4-5 days per week.

now i want get off them, will i experience wthdrawal? if yes, how i can get off them without having seizure and or terrible withdrawal?

is it possible to have seizure with that qantity of use?

 

[jonny1]

Don't use phenibut at all unless you are already addicted to it - GABA-B withdrawal is worse than GABA-A and dealing with both at the same time, I couldn't even imagine... Just like people who stupidly try to use baclofen to lessen the blow from GABA-A withdrawal they find themselves in a huge world of hurt.

I don't know the equivalency of etiz to klonopin or even if etiz will substitute for klonopin. If you're taking a quarter milligram of Klonopin a day, I doubt you're going to have much withdrawal from that - I'd try to cut it in half and see how that effects you but not until you're off of the etiz for a week or two - there might be some noticeable withdrawal from the etiz though. Its hard to tell because you don't have a definite answer as to how much you've actually been using and there isn't a whole lot of information on how long it takes a thienoBZD to develop an addiction.

Here's the big problem with benzos though, particularly Klonopin - the withdrawals get much worse over time and if you have to reinstate, it can take days of additional agony before you stabilize again because your plasma levels have to go back up. This process also can lead to the dreaded protracted withdrawal syndrome which would make it even more difficult to get off the benzos again.

It really takes a lot to safely get off these meds and then you have to avoid all GABAergics for a period of time as well after the fact, a month or two at the very least.

What if i kept on the .25 until my semester ends then taper slowly from then? I just cant imagine going through any kind of withdrawal during college

 

[MoreFeens4Morphine]

If I'm correct, the safest way of tapering off almost any medication is decreasing the dosage by 10% every week. That's just what I have heard though - no reliable sources.

 

[MagickalKat777]

What if i kept on the .25 until my semester ends then taper slowly from then? I just cant imagine going through any kind of withdrawal during college

You can taper at the rate that is most comfortable for you. Since heavy brain fog is extremely common with Klonopin, I wouldsay get off the Etiz now and the Klonopin later. It is perfectly reasonable to do it like this.

If I'm correct, the safest way of tapering off almost any medication is decreasing the dosage by 10% every week. That's just what I have heard though - no reliable sources.

Yes, 5-10% a week for benzos is the general recommended speed. It isn't set it in stone though. Some can go faster, others go slower. I'm kind of stuck at 15mg right now so I held for an extra week and will be making another cut on Sunday.

The length of time really affects the outcome of a taper. 10 months isn't bad but when you mix benzos it becomes even more difficult.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

I am intrigued by that proposition. When I was withdrawaling from klonopin, I dove head first into opiates for relief. I would start out with a single 30... then wait a week between use and try again and realize I needed 2 30s... and before I knew it, in less than 3 FUCKING MONTHS I was up to about 400mg of oxycodone to get high, not taking the drug daily, EVER... And what blows my mind is I know people who haven't passed the 100mg threshold who have used for years and I fucking got blessed with needing a pharmacy's supply to get high......

interesting....

And I totally feel for you dude, for being caught in the benzo merry go round MagickalKat... my heart seriously goes out for you.... I was put on klonopin because it wasn't addictive like xanax and valium..... I wish I knew....

Maybe you are on of the few who has a very active CYP2D6 enzyme, that is the enzyme that metabolizes most CNS-acting drugs in your body. Maybe yours metabolizes it so fast that you need much higher doses to achieve the same high as others.

Also, have you ever takn SSRI's or are you surrently on them? SSRI's left me with the inability to feel euphoria from opiates and most other drugs, unless I took astronomical doses like you did. I believe in the future we are going to see some nasty reports on SSRI's and how they can have long-term or permanent effects on the way your serotonin networks works, and that it may never normalize or properly re-wire itself. Maybe my body just didn't really accept the SSRI's too well, cause they definitly fucked my brain up pretty good, and its been over 3 years and I still get no effect from opiates other than sedation, and have very short and light rolls on pure MDMA, even at high doses. I guess its kinda good in a way, cause I don't seek out opiates anymore because I can't feel them. I guess i'll just stick to my subutex for now.