I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

[Felonious Monk]

Desertharp - I haven’t read every post in this thread but I was just triggered by what I thought this thread was suggesting. I don’t really know enough about where you’re coming from to know what to say in response to you personally. I also have lupus. Right now it’s kicking my ass so I’m weak and tired. But Ive read enough from the OP to know his battle. My heart breaks for him tho cause I can relate and feel his pain. I realize my response may be full of a lot of bias. But because of my own personal experience the only way I can exist is to see them as the poison they’ve been to me.

What would have happened if they hadn't treated those cysts? Bone grafts are serious, so I have to assume that the risk of not doing those surgeries was considered. Your insurance never would have approved it otherwise. The risks of a treatment have to be managed against the benefits.

 

[DesertHarp]

Yeah at first dentist were great for prescribing pain medicine. I had a tooth ache everyday in my early twenties. Probably hit up every dentist in east tn. For awhile you could get the same pharmacy to fill two different prescriptions for narcotic pain medicine from two different dentists in one week. It was great. But then the FDA started cracking down more as the overdose statistics began rising.




Actually a dentist was the first dr to prescribe opiates to me. I was 12. He found a small cyst on the left side of my jaw bone on the inside of my mouth during a routine cleaning. I hadn’t noticed it because it wasn’t bothering me. But he thought it might. He prescribe me Percocets. Then I was sent to a maxillofacial surgeon who removed it. I was left with a real small incision with 2 stitches. Ive had root canals that hurt more. But both times I was prescribed opiates. 3 months later the cyst was back. Basically the same size. I went back so they could remove it again. I was prescribed opiates again. The third time it came back it was three times bigger. Same procedure more opiates. The fourth time was the first time they had to also start removing pieces of bone. This lead to bone graphs. But my body always rejected the bone graphs so they eventually started taking bone from my hips. Even tho the pieces of bone were small it was still extremely hard to place any pressure on my hip and leg to walk. I was on crutches a few times. Then I ended up with an infection in my sinus cavity. This lead to having reconstructive sinus surgery twice. I’m so thankful that none of this has affected me physically. You can’t tell any of this ever happened by looking at me. But it did. Obviously at this point I was having pain. But thank God they were looking out for my liver. The dr said all the Tylenol in the percocets was bad for my liver. Which is true. So this time he prescribed me a medicine for pain that didn’t contain any Tylenol. He also said it was non addictive because of its slow releasing properties. Thats when I met OxyContin. To make a long story short by the time I graduated high school I had been thru over 30 surgeries.

But I didn’t find out that I was a drug addict until I was 19. I was in my bathroom getting ready for our towns highschool homecoming football game. I had to be there to give up my crown and crown the next homecoming queen. I could hear the TV playing from the living room. I’ll never forget this. I heard a man say “theres been a rise in concern about the potential of addiction associated with the medication often prescribed for pain called OxyContin”. As soon as I heard this I was immediately flooded with the same kind of panic I had felt the night before when I looked at my bottle and realized I only had two pills left. I didn’t understand why that had been so alarming to me. After hearing what that man said it all finally clicked. Now I knew.

Basically what this meant was that the entire time of my adolescent development my brain was under the influence of opiates. By the time I realized it…it was too late. It was like someone had been putting opiates in my mashed taters my entire life but never told me. I was 35 by the time I was able to put a halt on that constant chase of the dragon. But I’d basically already screwed the best parts of my life….being a mother….being anything. Opiates can rewire your brain and impair the reward circuitry. Every fiber of my being constantly craved the very poison thst was trying to kill me. Now I suffer from severe anhedonia.



Desertharp - I haven’t read every post in this thread but I was just triggered by what I thought this thread was suggesting. I don’t really know enough about where you’re coming from to know what to say in response to you personally. I also have lupus. Right now it’s kicking my ass so I’m weak and tired. But Ive read enough from the OP to know his battle. My heart breaks for him tho cause I can relate and feel his pain. I realize my response may be full of a lot of bias. But because of my own personal experience the only way I can exist is to see them as the poison they’ve been to me.

I am the OP of this thread.

That's one heck of a battle you've gone through. And you're still up against something tough. I hope you feel less weak and tired soon.

 

[Kellsee]

What would have happened if they hadn't treated those cysts? Bone grafts are serious, so I have to assume that the risk of not doing those surgeries was considered. Your insurance never would have approved it otherwise. The risks of a treatment have to be managed against the benefits.

Yeah I know. That’s the other side of the coin. I do believe the doctors involved were just doing what they knew to do. These issues couldn’t have been avoided. But I kinda feel theres a lack of accountability with people in general. I’m sure that applies to me too. It’s something I make a conscious effort to work on. I’d like to think if I was a doctor I would want to be more aware of the consequences involved in what medications I provided access to. I feel like back in the 90’s pain medicine was threw around too much when the risks were more obvious then most seem willing to admit. It was super easy to get pain medicine from a dentist back then. But now they are more careful. Tbh when I consider accountability I wanna blame Pharma Purdue for how they pushed OxyContin

“You don’t chase a market….you create it.”

That statement wasn’t just fictionalized. I looked into it. I had to know. The fact that that company had a conversation with that motive is extremely personal to me. That was my life. Im one of those patients.

People thought it must be OK because the FDA labelled it safe for moderate pain use. The FDA chief that did so would a year later go to work at the Pharma company for $400,000 a year.

When the effects proved not to last 12 hours, patients' discomfort was rebranded as "breakthrough pain" and the solution suggested by the makers was to double the dose

But you’re dealing with different factors now. Now we are more aware of these risks going forward. But in an effort to save face against this issue now they’ve made it almost impossible for people that are in legit pain to have any relief. Although I understand it’s necessary I just hate the fact that liability, covering your own ass and making money always has to be the priority more then the patient….the people actually suffering.

I wish we all could win

 

[Kellsee]

I am the OP of this thread.

That's one heck of a battle you've gone through. And you're still up against something tough. I hope you feel less weak and tired soon.

I’m so sorry. This issue is just so triggering to me and when you combine that with my ADHD Im just all over the place. I hope you read what I’ve said in all my posts that Ive made in this thread because I want you to know that Im not against you. I totally how this issue bites everybody. Depression is debilitating. I don’t know what the answers are. As the patients we all seem outnumbered by greed and liability.

 

[DesertHarp]

Yeah I know. That’s the other side of the coin. I do believe the doctors involved were just doing what they knew to do. These issues couldn’t have been avoided. But I kinda feel theres a lack of accountability with people in general. I’m sure that applies to me too. It’s something I make a conscious effort to work on. I’d like to think if I was a doctor I would want to be more aware of the consequences involved in what medications I provided access to. I feel like back in the 90’s pain medicine was threw around too much when the risks were more obvious then most seem willing to admit. It was super easy to get pain medicine from a dentist back then. But now they are more careful. Tbh when I consider accountability I wanna blame Pharma Purdue for how they pushed OxyContin

“You don’t chase a market….you create it.”

That statement wasn’t just fictionalized. I looked into it. I had to know. The fact that that company had a conversation with that motive is extremely personal to me. That was my life. Im one of those patients.

People thought it must be OK because the FDA labelled it safe for moderate pain use. The FDA chief that did so would a year later go to work at the Pharma company for $400,000 a year.

When the effects proved not to last 12 hours, patients' discomfort was rebranded as "breakthrough pain" and the solution suggested by the makers was to double the dose

But you’re dealing with different factors now. Now we are more aware of these risks going forward. But in an effort to save face against this issue now they’ve made it almost impossible for people that are in legit pain to have any relief. Although I understand it’s necessary I just hate the fact that liability, covering your own ass and making money always has to be the priority more then the patient….the people actually suffering.

I wish we all could win

What a well-written summary of what has happened in the world of legit prescriptions for opioid pain meds.

I slightly differ from you, in that I put most of the blame on over-prescribing doctors. They want to claim that the pharmaceutical companies misled them . . . that they didn't realize how addictive opioids were. I don't buy that.

I was a nursing student in the '70's. We knew back then that opioids were very addictive. In the early '80s, the state and federal governments started cracking down on the use of sedatives and opioids in nursing homes. We used to hand out Seconal to rich old ladies. That stopped almost overnight. (I watched one such patient die in barbiturate withdrawal, after almost a week of insomnia. She went from being mentally competent to being psychotically disoriented. It was horrible to behold. You had to see this to appreciate how bad it was for this poor soul. Detox should not be done in a nursing home. We had not the expertise.) It took longer for the governments to get to opioids, but they finally got to them.

Opioids have been around a very long time. The whole world knows what they do. Also, healthcare professionals all know how prevalent opioid addiction is among their felllow nurses and doctors. Every state has special programs (diversion programs) to enforce discipline and keep professionals out of prison, and they publish a list of affected professionals that is sent out to each group of licensed professionals, at least every few months. So, for doctors to be professing this wide-eyed innocence about opioid abuse is impossible for me to believe. There probably is not a doctor in the U.S. who hasn't known, or known of, an opioid addicted fellow physician.

Shortly after getting out of nursing school, I was told by co-workers where I worked, about a fellow nurse they believed was stealing narcotic pain pills. Darvon and Tylenol with codeine were the hot items back then. In more recent years, I worked with a nurse who fatally overdosed. I've worked with other nurses who were not allowed access to the narcotic cabinet because they were in "diversion programs." From what I read, doctors abuse opioids worse than nurses do, probably because they have such ready access. The argument that physicians "just didn't realize" is too flimsy for me.

In fairness to doctors, it was back in the '70s that an anti-pain movement went into full swing. Nurses and doctors were told that pain is what the patient says it is. We were told that pain-relief is a "patient right." Doctors, I hate to say, are herd animals. Medicine may be a science, but doctors are typically not scientists. They want to be in step with what they think is the standard, accepted way of doing things. They copy their peers. Trends are big in their line of work. ("Baby aspirin a day might prevent a stroke or heart attack." That was big for many years. Now it's debunked as dangerous advice.) Physicians live in fear - fear of law suits, and fear of government oversight, and fear of insurance programs not paying them. Staying with the herd affords some safety. They parrot off things they've been told, if that's what everyone else is saying. Now the wind has shifted, so the herd runs in a different direction.

As a cover, there's loads of stuff being printed that says opioids don't even really relieve pain . . . not for long. This is a way for doctors to sooth their consciences when they leave patients in pain. Opioids do relieve pain, even after tolerance develops.

There's been a mad scramble to market non-drug pain relievers. TENS units were big in the '70s. (They send electric stimulus to the nerves.) Their popularity went down over the later '80s. They're back on the market, as an over-the-counter device that anyone can buy. The research on their usefulness is very disappointing.

A lot of seniors are taking way more Tylenol and ibuprofen than is safe, as a substitute for opioid pain meds. The kicker is that those 2 drugs can be more toxic than opioids. I was put on Indocin (indomethacin) to reduce my need for hydrocodone. It's an NSAID, same family as aspirin or Motrin (ibuprofen), but way stronger. It works great. But, after a few months taking Indocin 3 times a day, I ended up with bleeding ulcers in my stomach and colon. I went to the hospital because of extreme weakness. They said I had lost one third of my red blood cells to the silent bleeding. The gastroenterologists told me to never take an NSAID again. Now I stick to the hydrocodone. This is an example of "unintended consequences" from poorly thought out policy.

I hope the pendulum is starting to swing back. It was an over-correction, unfair to people in pain. Effective treatment for pain is a right.

 

[DesertHarp]

I’m so sorry. This issue is just so triggering to me and when you combine that with my ADHD Im just all over the place. I hope you read what I’ve said in all my posts that Ive made in this thread because I want you to know that Im not against you. I totally how this issue bites everybody. Depression is debilitating. I don’t know what the answers are. As the patients we all seem outnumbered by greed and liability.

Thanks for participating in this discussion. You've had a lot to struggle with. I sincerely hope that you and all of us get the help we need. Sometimes we don't.

 

[DesertHarp]

Mainly, I'ld like to add that I'm not suggesting that opioids are a great way to combat depression. If they were, I'ld be out combing the streets for more.

The problem is that medical-therapeutic treatment for depression does not help some people. The theory was that some brain disorder causes depression, so medical attention is the fix. I think that, maybe, it's the opposite. Maybe depression causes brain disorders. They've never really figured it out.

I thought members of this site would know something about depression. It seems that has proved true.

 

[Man67]

Yeah at first dentist were great for prescribing pain medicine. I had a tooth ache everyday in my early twenties. Probably hit up every dentist in east tn. For awhile you could get the same pharmacy to fill two different prescriptions for narcotic pain medicine from two different dentists in one week. It was great. But then the FDA started cracking down more as the overdose statistics began rising.




Actually a dentist was the first dr to prescribe opiates to me. I was 12. He found a small cyst on the left side of my jaw bone on the inside of my mouth during a routine cleaning. I hadn’t noticed it because it wasn’t bothering me. But he thought it might. He prescribe me Percocets. Then I was sent to a maxillofacial surgeon who removed it. I was left with a real small incision with 2 stitches. Ive had root canals that hurt more. But both times I was prescribed opiates. 3 months later the cyst was back. Basically the same size. I went back so they could remove it again. I was prescribed opiates again. The third time it came back it was three times bigger. Same procedure more opiates. The fourth time was the first time they had to also start removing pieces of bone. This lead to bone graphs. But my body always rejected the bone graphs so they eventually started taking bone from my hips. Even tho the pieces of bone were small it was still extremely hard to place any pressure on my hip and leg to walk. I was on crutches a few times. Then I ended up with an infection in my sinus cavity. This lead to having reconstructive sinus surgery twice. I’m so thankful that none of this has affected me physically. You can’t tell any of this ever happened by looking at me. But it did. Obviously at this point I was having pain. But thank God they were looking out for my liver. The dr said all the Tylenol in the percocets was bad for my liver. Which is true. So this time he prescribed me a medicine for pain that didn’t contain any Tylenol. He also said it was non addictive because of its slow releasing properties. Thats when I met OxyContin. To make a long story short by the time I graduated high school I had been thru over 30 surgeries.

But I didn’t find out that I was a drug addict until I was 19. I was in my bathroom getting ready for our towns highschool homecoming football game. I had to be there to give up my crown and crown the next homecoming queen. I could hear the TV playing from the living room. I’ll never forget this. I heard a man say “theres been a rise in concern about the potential of addiction associated with the medication often prescribed for pain called OxyContin”. As soon as I heard this I was immediately flooded with the same kind of panic I had felt the night before when I looked at my bottle and realized I only had two pills left. I didn’t understand why that had been so alarming to me. After hearing what that man said it all finally clicked. Now I knew.

Basically what this meant was that the entire time of my adolescent development my brain was under the influence of opiates. By the time I realized it…it was too late. It was like someone had been putting opiates in my mashed taters my entire life but never told me. I was 35 by the time I was able to put a halt on that constant chase of the dragon. But I’d basically already screwed the best parts of my life….being a mother….being anything. Opiates can rewire your brain and impair the reward circuitry. Every fiber of my being constantly craved the very poison thst was trying to kill me. Now I suffer from severe anhedonia.



Desertharp - I haven’t read every post in this thread but I was just triggered by what I thought this thread was suggesting. I don’t really know enough about where you’re coming from to know what to say in response to you personally. I also have lupus. Right now it’s kicking my ass so I’m weak and tired. But Ive read enough from the OP to know his battle. My heart breaks for him tho cause I can relate and feel his pain. I realize my response may be full of a lot of bias. But because of my own personal experience the only way I can exist is to see them as the poison they’ve been to me.

Which "poison" are you talking about and who was trying to "kill you"? The biggest poison these days are antidepressants which are prescribed like lollies. The whole generation of kids is fuc**d up and they look and behave like zombies.

If you don't behave like the rest of the SHEEPLE there's a pill for you. If it doesn't work just double the dose or add another one. Addiction and dependency are the "new normal" and nobody cares about it. But stay away from painkillers because they are bad for you. Right? What a hypocrisy.

 

[Kellsee]

I slightly differ from you,

I sure hope not because Id love to think I could be as fair and unbiased as you. Thank you for having this conversation with me. These are my favorite kind. Even if our opinions are different what matters is that you made me feel understood and heard. I learned a few things from you. Your perspective and experience made me realize things I hadn’t thought about before.

I was a nursing student in the '70's. We knew back then that opioids were very addictive. In the early '80s, the state and federal governments started cracking down on the use of sedatives and opioids in nursing homes. We used to hand out Seconal to rich old ladies. That stopped almost overnight. (I watched one such patient die in barbiturate withdrawal, after almost a week of insomnia. She went from being mentally competent to being psychotically disoriented. It was horrible to behold. You had to see this to appreciate how bad it was for this poor soul. Detox should not be done in a nursing home. We had not the expertise.) It took longer for the governments to get to opioids, but they finally got to them.

I don’t understand how anyone can see another human being suffering and not be compelled to help them. I take cymbalta for depression. If I go 3 days without it the brain zaps are debilitating. I’ve read that coming off of it is terrible.

Opioids have been around a very long time. The whole world knows what they do. Also, healthcare professionals all know how prevalent opioid addiction is among their felllow nurses and doctors. Every state has special programs (diversion programs) to enforce discipline and keep professionals out of prison, and they publish a list of affected professionals that is sent out to each group of licensed professionals, at least every few months. So, for doctors to be professing this wide-eyed innocence about opioid abuse is impossible for me to believe. There probably is not a doctor in the U.S. who hasn't known, or known of, an opioid addicted fellow physician.

Shortly after getting out of nursing school, I was told by co-workers where I worked, about a fellow nurse they believed was stealing narcotic pain pills. Darvon and Tylenol with codeine were the hot items back then. In more recent years, I worked with a nurse who fatally overdosed. I've worked with other nurses who were not allowed access to the narcotic cabinet because they were in "diversion programs." From what I read, doctors abuse opioids worse than nurses do, probably because they have such ready access. The argument that physicians "just didn't realize" is too flimsy for me.

In fairness to doctors, it was back in the '70s that an anti-pain movement went into full swing. Nurses and doctors were told that pain is what the patient says it is. We were told that pain-relief is a "patient right." Doctors, I hate to say, are herd animals. Medicine may be a science, but doctors are typically not scientists. They want to be in step with what they think is the standard, accepted way of doing things. They copy their peers. Trends are big in their line of work. ("Baby aspirin a day might prevent a stroke or heart attack." That was big for many years. Now it's debunked as dangerous advice.) Physicians live in fear - fear of law suits, and fear of government oversight, and fear of insurance programs not paying them. Staying with the herd affords some safety. They parrot off things they've been told, if that's what everyone else is saying. Now the wind has shifted, so the herd runs in a different direction.

As a cover, there's loads of stuff being printed that says opioids don't even really relieve pain . . . not for long. This is a way for doctors to sooth their consciences when they leave patients in pain. Opioids do relieve pain, even after tolerance develops.

There's been a mad scramble to market non-drug pain relievers. TENS units were big in the '70s. (They send electric stimulus to the nerves.) Their popularity went down over the later '80s. They're back on the market, as an over-the-counter device that anyone can buy. The research on their usefulness is very disappointing.

A lot of seniors are taking way more Tylenol and ibuprofen than is safe, as a substitute for opioid pain meds. The kicker is that those 2 drugs can be more toxic than opioids. I was put on Indocin (indomethacin) to reduce my need for hydrocodone. It's an NSAID, same family as aspirin or Motrin (ibuprofen), but way stronger. It works great. But, after a few months taking Indocin 3 times a day, I ended up with bleeding ulcers in my stomach and colon. I went to the hospital because of extreme weakness. They said I had lost one third of my red blood cells to the silent bleeding. The gastroenterologists told me to never take an NSAID again. Now I stick to the hydrocodone. This is an example of "unintended consequences" from poorly thought out policy.

I hope the pendulum is starting to swing back. It was an over-correction, unfair to people in pain. Effective treatment for pain is a right.

yeah you’re right…the concern for the potential of addiction to opiates can be traced as far back as the late 1800’s with laudanum, an opiate tincture. How could they not know?

Tylenol and ibuprofen are more toxic than opiates. Nothing will hurt your liver quicker. I had Tylenol poisoning once because I had took too many lortab 5’s. That was the sickest I’ve ever been as far as being nauseous. I had to stay two nights in the hospital. I even turned jaundice.

The way you just explained what doctors dealt with along with the profession as a whole was very insightful. I hadn’t ever thought about it like that. But see like you just said…. the policies and protocols are enforcing it. I agree with you. Even if Im gave rules to follow Im still able to determine if following them might hurt someone else. It comes back to survival instincts. In order to make a living group mentality wins. The bystander affect also contributes. But just look at the Hippocratic oath and how the ethics fade with each revision. Doctors make great money. But theyre willing to hurt the very person theyre suppose to be helping. That puts a dangerous person in a position that we are suppose to trust with our lives. Talk about hypocrisy lol.

When you look at the entire picture it seems like there’s a common thread of intention involved with depression and addiction. It’s like this was the plan. The small town I live in has a very thick pack bred mentality. It’s like all the policies, protocols and standards are made in order to ensure that it ends up like this. It’s about social stratification not our best interest. Both addiction and depression deal with impairment or deficits with our neurotransmitters. I know dopamine isn’t the only transmitter but I think it’s the main player. Pain and pleasure are created by the same part of the brain. This creates whats similar to a see saw. Because of how the body is always striving for homeostasis it means that for every ounce of pleasure there will have to be an ounce of pain…..in order to keep that see saw level. That’s our dopamine baseline. Think about how addiction and depression both influence our intrinsic motivation and even our willpower….how we are left feeling. Now compare all of that to the timeline of when each drug started surfacing and the specific ways each one impacted us. IMO it’s very ironic that all of the approaches for treatment have either been shame triggering or punitive. It’s been proven time and time again that these measures are not effective. All the way back to the early 1900’s. When people can’t determine what’s true and whats not they can no longer distinguish between right and wrong.

 

[Kellsee]

Which "poison" are you talking about and who was trying to "kill you"? The biggest poison these days are antidepressants which are prescribed like lollies. The whole generation of kids is fuc**d up and they look and behave like zombies.

If you don't behave like the rest of the SHEEPLE there's a pill for you. If it doesn't work just double the dose or add another one. Addiction and dependency are the "new normal" and nobody cares about it. But stay away from painkillers because they are bad for you. Right? What a hypocrisy.

OxyContin….Pharma Purdue

I totally agree with everything you said. Everything. I thought you were the OP at first lol.

Have you ever watched Andrew Huberman on YouTube? He a neuroscientist thats a professor at Stanford. His channel has helped me so much. Such a wealth of knowledge.

 

[Psynaught]

Yeah at first dentist were great for prescribing pain medicine. I had a tooth ache everyday in my early twenties. Probably hit up every dentist in east tn. For awhile you could get the same pharmacy to fill two different prescriptions for narcotic pain medicine from two different dentists in one week. It was great. But then the FDA started cracking down more as the overdose statistics began rising.




Actually a dentist was the first dr to prescribe opiates to me. I was 12. He found a small cyst on the left side of my jaw bone on the inside of my mouth during a routine cleaning. I hadn’t noticed it because it wasn’t bothering me. But he thought it might. He prescribe me Percocets. Then I was sent to a maxillofacial surgeon who removed it. I was left with a real small incision with 2 stitches. Ive had root canals that hurt more. But both times I was prescribed opiates. 3 months later the cyst was back. Basically the same size. I went back so they could remove it again. I was prescribed opiates again. The third time it came back it was three times bigger. Same procedure more opiates. The fourth time was the first time they had to also start removing pieces of bone. This lead to bone graphs. But my body always rejected the bone graphs so they eventually started taking bone from my hips. Even tho the pieces of bone were small it was still extremely hard to place any pressure on my hip and leg to walk. I was on crutches a few times. Then I ended up with an infection in my sinus cavity. This lead to having reconstructive sinus surgery twice. I’m so thankful that none of this has affected me physically. You can’t tell any of this ever happened by looking at me. But it did. Obviously at this point I was having pain. But thank God they were looking out for my liver. The dr said all the Tylenol in the percocets was bad for my liver. Which is true. So this time he prescribed me a medicine for pain that didn’t contain any Tylenol. He also said it was non addictive because of its slow releasing properties. Thats when I met OxyContin. To make a long story short by the time I graduated high school I had been thru over 30 surgeries.

But I didn’t find out that I was a drug addict until I was 19. I was in my bathroom getting ready for our towns highschool homecoming football game. I had to be there to give up my crown and crown the next homecoming queen. I could hear the TV playing from the living room. I’ll never forget this. I heard a man say “theres been a rise in concern about the potential of addiction associated with the medication often prescribed for pain called OxyContin”. As soon as I heard this I was immediately flooded with the same kind of panic I had felt the night before when I looked at my bottle and realized I only had two pills left. I didn’t understand why that had been so alarming to me. After hearing what that man said it all finally clicked. Now I knew.

Basically what this meant was that the entire time of my adolescent development my brain was under the influence of opiates. By the time I realized it…it was too late. It was like someone had been putting opiates in my mashed taters my entire life but never told me. I was 35 by the time I was able to put a halt on that constant chase of the dragon. But I’d basically already screwed the best parts of my life….being a mother….being anything. Opiates can rewire your brain and impair the reward circuitry. Every fiber of my being constantly craved the very poison thst was trying to kill me. Now I suffer from severe anhedonia.



Desertharp - I haven’t read every post in this thread but I was just triggered by what I thought this thread was suggesting. I don’t really know enough about where you’re coming from to know what to say in response to you personally. I also have lupus. Right now it’s kicking my ass so I’m weak and tired. But Ive read enough from the OP to know his battle. My heart breaks for him tho cause I can relate and feel his pain. I realize my response may be full of a lot of bias. But because of my own personal experience the only way I can exist is to see them as the poison they’ve been to me.

WOW, that is a heck of a story. I was a daily drug user from age 13 but fortunately it was marijuana. I do think marijuana addiction is real but it does not create the same kind of addiction that opioids do. However since I was stoned all the time from such a young age I think it massively hindered my emotional development. I started drinking at age 18 and was a full blown alcoholic by age 25. 15 beers a day everyday hard stuff on weekends. I quit drinking at age 27 and have not had a drink since. I am 62 now.

I started smoking pot again at age 55...but did not like it at all, crazy, huh. I do like the occasional ecstasy high but never abuse it. I was never high on opioids (took them many times fro surgery) until about age 61. And boy, did I like that. I have quit a lot of opioids stockpiled (started by paranoia...I have been denied pain medication on many occasions when I really truly needed it...some docs today seem like they were trained by Nazis). Nowadays I do get high on opioids maybe once a week. I know that is dangerous, but it has been once a week or even 10 days for a few years now.

It is actually reading this forum that makes me tremendously paranoid about opiod addiction, a good thing. It is crazy now in my old age but I don't behave addictively any more. I had a half gram of coke that lasted me 3 weeks. I take psych drugs and I think that maybe they have something to do with my ability to use drugs very sporadically.

 

[Kellsee]

Applying addiction to your situation is almost like an oxymoron. I’m not saying that it’s not a contributing factor. But you are very well aware of this but yet thats where everyone seems to jump in at you at. Because of how you’ve suffered from the depression it’s created a yearning in you to experience life while wanting to, excited about and anticipating going forward. It’s hard to see all of this in those around you and not realize that it’s exactly what you want too. When you first took the opiate it met a need in you that you’ve determined is vital so of course you’re gonna want to secure it. Talk about anticipating anxiety….knowing the opiates the answer but also understanding what all’s associated with getting it plus how all of this is. I totally understand why it’s offensive to you each time someone comes at you with all of that. I’d say one of the reason you share so many of the other details in what you’re willing to share is just so people won’t go there. Because that’s not even the question you’re asking. Plus once thats the response you get it’s like the bystander affect. There goes your chance to get the answers you seek because here comes the rest of the herd.
We can’t really depend on logic anymore

 

[Man67]

Opioids (in moderate doses) are the only immediate relief for depression and that's the fact. As I previously mentioned 10mg Oxycodone p/d is keeping me alive for the last 2 years. Unfortunately it's effect only lasts for 3-4 hours and the rest of of the day I spend in bed.

Beside extremely expensive Ketamine therapy there's no other way to deal with Treatment Resistant Depression. Or maybe there is? How about monthly Buvidal (buprenorphine) injection? According to the research it can rapidly ease depression and suicidal thoughts.

In order to get it I have to give up Oxy and hope for the best. Is there anyone who already tried this method and what's the verdict?

 

[DesertHarp]

Opioids (in moderate doses) are the only immediate relief for depression and that's the fact. As I previously mentioned 10mg Oxycodone p/d is keeping me alive for the last 2 years. Unfortunately it's effect only lasts for 3-4 hours and the rest of of the day I spend in bed.

Beside extremely expensive Ketamine therapy there's no other way to deal with Treatment Resistant Depression. Or maybe there is? How about monthly Buvidal (buprenorphine) injection? According to the research it can rapidly ease depression and suicidal thoughts.

In order to get it I have to give up Oxy and hope for the best. Is there anyone who already tried this method and what's the verdict?

A doctor told me years ago that I had "treatment resistant depression." He said they could start me on ECT (shock treatments.) I declined them because I heard you lose part of your memory. That sounds like brain damage to me.

But that was before Ketamine. I was wondering about my chances of getting that. I didn't know you had to give up Oxy for it. Or was that true only for the buprenorphine?

I would not want to give up hydrocodone.

 

[Kellsee]

It would be helpful if you could at least be assured that if it didn’t work you could depend on at least getting them to give you back the oxy. Just that concern all by itself is enough to cause bad anticipatory anxiety.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

For awhile you could get the same pharmacy to fill two different prescriptions for narcotic pain medicine from two different dentists in one week. It was great. But then the FDA started cracking down more as the overdose statistics began rising.

. It was super easy to get pain medicine from a dentist back then. But now they are more careful.

People thought it must be OK because the FDA labelled it safe for moderate pain use. The FDA chief that did so would a year later go to work at the Pharma company for $400,000 a year.

Nobody was fooled by the pharma companies. OxyContin was classified as a schedule 2 drug since its clinical use began. The definition of a schedule 2 drug says that it has a high potential for abuse and addiction.

I have no idea why this lore exists that pharma sales reps tricking educated doctors into believing that a schedule 2 drug which by definition is very addictive, would not be addictive.

The reason this lore exists is to trick the public into blaming one pharma companies sales reps rather than blaming capitalism as a whole where suffering is profited upon by a few men.

in reality the government and doctors and everyone knew that opiates including oxy were highly addictive but they ignored the overprescribing because the pharma companies were bribing politicians and make money hand over fist off these drugs.

Once again the government used people as disposable cattle to extract wealth from their suffering - knowing exactly what they were doing, then blamed someone else.

First it was Purdue, now it’s Mexicans and Canadians faults that Americans are all killing themselves with fentanyl. It’s definitely not the government’s fault for allowing such a wretched system of exploitation and misery to exist that enslaves people working for nothing or rotting in jail as cattle to extract wealth from taxpayers on behalf of 11 billionaires.

At every turn this can be blamed on predatory corporations and billionaires - but we know that these fuckers will always bring suffering upon humanity to feed their endless addiction to capital. The government would be the thing that should protect the people from these monsters - but the government IS the corporations and billionaires. They own it and they will continue to rain down suffering on people and everyone that can stop it will take the bribes and let them continue

 

[Kellsee]

Now they wanna call you a criminal. If you’ve really invested into understanding addiction how could you not see the role that shame plays?? Shame is toxic af. But what do they do?? Make you feel like it’s just the consequences of your choices. Which choice has to be considered because you gotta learn to make different ones. But no one chooses to become addicted. That’s not how addiction works.

I’ve been running all of this through my head so much lately. The hypocrisy is more than I can take. But I guess Im just bitter. I can never fix enough. This is all I know. It’s like I was indicted as soon as I was born. My life has been the trial

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Have you tried any dopaminergic medications like selegiline, pramipexole, d-amphetamine, etc

I read a case report of a patient with TRD that was non responsive to ECT as well as the mainstream antidepressants

He only started getting remission after being put on dextroamphetamine and pramipexole along with clomipramine he was on before

Dextroamphetamine and Pramipexole Combination for Treatment-Resistant Unipolar Depression - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That s what i told my Mom yesterday, as anti-depressant dextro-Amphetamine.
Is a good candidate, but not classified as AD like Opoid s.

Her friend been on all AD: SSRIs, TCAs maybe even MAO-i [think not]
Now on Imipramine only that helps a little,
i told my Mom your friend is the closest i seen
of someone over stimulated Meth-Amphetamine style.

Its the only AD that kinda works, but can make you act like you are spun.
And a freak. She probably also was also fed AP [Anti-Psychotics].
When in mental hands pray to your God s for a good outcome.

Wonder how she would do on dextro-Amphetamine, as its not a med
you won t look tweaking or freaking, but does a great job on depression.
Giving a relaxed, and not that forced agitated stimulant effect of Imipramine.

Which also has many annoying side effects afaik,
And is addicting, imo dextro-Amphetamine is not.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I sure hope not because Id love to think I could be as fair and unbiased as you. Thank you for having this conversation with me. These are my favorite kind. Even if our opinions are different what matters is that you made me feel understood and heard. I learned a few things from you. Your perspective and experience made me realize things I hadn’t thought about before.

I don’t understand how anyone can see another human being suffering and not be compelled to help them. I take cymbalta for depression. If I go 3 days without it the brain zaps are debilitating. I’ve read that coming off of it is terrible.

Biased, i learned yesterday is a feature most prominent in smart people.
So actually atm you became un-biased, lost the bias. actually is a sign your smart.
Einstein was biased about his own theory, not claiming your Einstein. But smart.

Shame imo is just a way to not take responsibility,
point your finger at someone else.
Much easier to blame. [from REN/ MoneyGame].


Dr s love that, but what about 50 years back,
they were the first prescription drug user s.
As back then they where allowed to taste there own med s.

 

[Kellsee]

Biased, i learned yesterday is a feature most prominent in smart people.
So actually atm you became un-biased, lost the bias. actually is a sign your smart.
Einstein was biased about his own theory, not claiming your Einstein. But smart.

Shame imo is just a way to not take responsibility,
point your finger at someone else.
Much easier to blame. [from REN/ MoneyGame].


Dr s love that, but what about 50 years back,
they were the first prescription drug user s.
As back then they where allowed to taste there own med s.

Thank you. I think it comes down to emotional intelligence and being able to empathize with other people. Our personal perspectives are so influenced by our surroundings, our experiences and our culture that I feel a personal responsibility to make the effort to keep digging that shit up and keep myself as aware as possible. But the smarter you are the more prone you are to mental illiness, depression and addiction. The main lesson Ive learned is that it doesn’t matter how pretty you are, how smart you are or even how much money you have….its about self control and being consistent. Consistency beats talent every time. I have neither lol

Ren is a fucking genuis

If ever there were lyrics that got me….

“I am scared of being ok because all things change”

We all trace ourselves in chalk outlines