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If weed isn't a "real" psychedelic how do you explain arabesque/hindu art?

Ha ha :) exactly. Three facts are clear to me.

1.he clearly doesn't know anything about Indian culture.

2. His arguments stem from what he thinks is true, because he doesn't check facts, and he never posts proof of his claims.

3. He clearly hasn't been to India
 
ismene said:
Do they drink it like they're at a Kiss concert in purim?
Click to expand...

This item of rhetoric does not become more convincing the more times you repeat it.

Also, no, depending on the particular observer's approach, they get WAY more drunk than one would at a concert. Check out the following article on Purim in Jerusalem for orthodox Jews:
2013-02-21-HasidPurim.jpg

(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eitan-press/purim-how-to-get-drunk-on-god_b_2734923.html)

ebola
 
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oh hey, it's another nice thread derailed by Ismene.

I'm probably also responsible, but it's just too hard to not call out on his bullshit
 
Bagseed said:
I'm probably also responsible, but it's just too hard to not call out on his bullshit
Click to expand...
Join the club!

I haven't been following this thread, but I did read the part where someone was having trouble understanding that religious people could smoke weed, because it makes you "fall over laughing and giggling." Has this person never heard of Rastafarians?
 
Ismene said:
Wine is a sacrament of the christians - but it's not often you walk into a cathedral and find the Archbishop and his congregation pissed out of their heads.
Click to expand...

...a real shame ;) I tell you what, the last time I was in a church I would have been happy with some fucking freon.
 
Fagott said:
He clearly hasn't been to India
Click to expand...

I think the difference is more that I'm aware of the disconnect between the stoner version of history and real history. I know how tempting it is for stoners to think "India is just like the set of Dude, where's my car". I'm afraid it isn't. And it almost certainly never was. I'm aware of how unpopular and disappointing that is to most stoners. If I was still a teenager I'd be saying "It was just like a Cheech and Chong movie too". Maybe when you get a little older you'll change your opinion. But you'll need to do some work and open your mind which is unlikely.

EDIT: One more thing, I talk to Hindus every day in my line of work, often talked to them about their religion. Not one has ever mentioned cannabis. Not once. Ever. What does that tell you about how central it is to their religion? But hey, don't let reality get in the way of stoner history.

willow11 said:
...a real shame ;) I tell you what, the last time I was in a church I would have been happy with some fucking freon.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about how heavy the bishops cane it in their private lives tho :)
 
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ebola? said:
This item of rhetoric does not become more convincing the more times you repeat it.

Also, no, depending on the particular observer's approach, they get WAY more drunk than one would at a concert.
Click to expand...

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Read what I said again.

Bagseed said:
oh hey, it's another nice thread derailed by Ismene.

I'm probably also responsible, but it's just too hard to not call out on his bullshit
Click to expand...

Yeah, someone with a different opinion eh. Perish the thought. If only we all said the same thing - that would make it better right?
 
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Why would someone bring up drug use to an westerner in a professional setting? Do you think they're ignorant of the cultural bias against drug use?

Do they talk about masturbation? Are you going to conclude "Hindus don't masturbate" because jacking off isn't a common topic?
 
Fair easy to answer.

This art is indicative of higher consciousness however achieved which means it could have come out of spiritual disapline rather than hashish or opium. People have starved and chanted and done alsorts to achieve it. The art is also very clearly informed by the beauty of nature its self(for fractal see seashells tress etc etc etc), and inspirational devotional art and the techniques and culture of it are additive over time. Drugs are a way to open the mind to things innately there so they may have played a part in some developement but certainly don't need to be primary. Drugs are great but the human mind is capable of percieving wonder beauty etc. It's the natural condition - you don't need to have been banging MDMA to appriecate it. These cultures often saw things differently and had teaching to help enforce this aesthetic mindset.

And at it's rare best cannabis does produce some level of psychedelia; as can opium which like other things travelled widely and there was syrian rue and no doubt tropane like plants available or known to some. I don't doubt there is something in this but it's way over simplistic drg obssessed way to understanding how thing developed not taking in wider aspects of the human condition and psychology.
 
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Hmm Datura and opium mixed with cannabis. I always thought that might explain why in Hindu texts they would talk about the 'gods' speaking with them. Doesn't datura make you see people that aren't there and have conversations with them?
And then that mixed with hash and opium...
I could see that causing you to hallucinate and see some weird looking blue guy talking to you.

No, but I thought that long before they had established religion, the origin of it probably did come from cannabis (or datura and cannabis) use. But then as it got more about the structure of the religion itself and less about the experience of the drug it became less important.
 
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This means nothing, but I have a hunch that Soma was just a mix of the major psychoactive plants they had access to. So I could definitely see something like opium (did they have that then?), weed, and some deleriant.
 
As far as i remember (badly) didn't the descriptions of soma sound like they had some sort of stimulating element (didn't they neck it and then go around raiding non-brahmin villages in the name of indra or something) - ephedra is mentioned often (though boring old ephedrine doesn't seem glamorous enough to be soma)
 
Yeah I have trouble accepting ephedra as Soma but then again, I'm not an ancient Hindu so who knows. My objection to it is totally unscientific.
 
What exactly is a psychedelic anyways? What counts as a psychedelic effect and what's just an effect that coincidentally occurs often while on psychedelics? Pharmacologically marijuana is quite different from the classical psychdelics suggesting that what it's actually doing in the brain is not the same as something like LSD. Subjectively the vast majority of people find the two experiences qualitatively different to a substantial degree. There are superficial similarities but the way you *feel* while stoned is just too different to the way you feel while tripping to make that connection in my opinion. The vague similarity of certain visual effects present in both experiences isn't enough to totally equate them.
 
the effects of classic psychedelics and weed are additive,
as for differences,
lucy starts off more lucid
while weed makes you a bit sleepy and makes your eyes red and maybe squinty,
and it makes your skin more sensitive inside and out - like hungry horny which is special.

but as for psychedelic patterns they both work the same way,
and they are the same also when it comes to loops, tracers, time dilation, entities, voices, dimensions, etc.
weed is right up there with the classics. I think of these similarities as the classic psychedelic effects.


back to the soma question
I think the ephedra could be part of a soma recipe, imparting a wakefulness element to a cannabis brew
 
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