Larr_E
Bluelighter
My thought is that love is constant. Even when you don't know you love somebody it still shines through in your actions, thoughts and dreams...
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If the only thing constant is change...
- Thread starter Larr_E
- Start date
wanderer21
Bluelighter
Larr_E said:
I'm not a parent, but I can tell you that no amount of drugs would make me not love my godson anymore than I already do.
But, I can say that for love to exist and endure, change is necessary. Not saying your love will change in a negative fashion...but love grows deeper, love grows stronger, and love grows tougher.
Change is the only constant...it's learning how to change within ANY relationship that makes love in its essence a constant as well.
Larr_E
Bluelighter
I agree, love will change for the better or worst but it will always be there and that is constant...
wanderer21 said:
you're not understanding what i mean at all. does your experience of love persist in deep dreamless sleep? i'm saying that your love only persits as long as the ego illusion and the ego illusion is not constant. it is interrupted during sleep and can be interrupted by drugs as well as injuries and other things. i'm asking you to explain how the love is constant if doesn't exist without the ego. we know the ego is not constant so what is your rational for saying its loves are?
yougene
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 19, 2003
- Messages
- 3,336
I believe when he speaks of love he is speaking of more than just the emotional state of mind humans experience. Love is a seemingly powerful force in the universe. It is what connects everything. It is what makes everything dependant upon everything else.
LightSeeker
Bluelighter
Love is change... in that it is love which allows the world to exist- to change- to be- it is love which drives us to change ourselves- love of ourselves, love of others, and love of the universe.
Larr_E
Bluelighter
yet love can also drive us to remain the same...
yougene said:
that's why i asked him to clarify what he meant. earlier in this thread i stated that i believed pure existance was love, outside space and time and constant. i also said that love the emotional state of mind humans experience was not constant as it only persists as long as the ego. his answer was
he says nothing about what he means by love.
wanderer21
Bluelighter
deviate said:
Well I don't buy into the whole ego/id thing. I think it's nonsense from the most nonsensical theorist. (IMHO-and that's my opinion to have btw).
and yes I think I do still love during sleep. I have dreams of loves ones all the time and my feelings are the exact same for them. I don't think loves goes away and comes back when you think of it. Matter of fact I don't think that love ever goes away...I think once you love someone you love them for life.
Now in relationships--if they don't work out I think that we always still love a person and care for them but realize that the relationship is not meant to be and we surpress our love.
I don't know a better way of answering your question/statement. Sorry
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
wanderer21 said:Well I don't buy into the whole ego/id thing. I think it's nonsense from the most nonsensical theorist. (IMHO-and that's my opinion to have btw).
and yes I think I do still love during sleep. I have dreams of loves ones all the time and my feelings are the exact same for them. I don't think loves goes away and comes back when you think of it. Matter of fact I don't think that love ever goes away...I think once you love someone you love them for life.
Now in relationships--if they don't work out I think that we always still love a person and care for them but realize that the relationship is not meant to be and we surpress our love.
I don't know a better way of answering your question/statement. Sorry
i believe you're not understanding. when i say ego i'm not talking about anything to do with freud and his wacky theories. by ego i mean the "i" thought, the entire sense of self seperate from surroundings. have you ever experienced ego death? if not do some research on it and you might get an idea of what i'm referring to. in the egoless state there is no duality. you have no self capable of loving something foreign to it as there is nothing foreign. it is an experience of oneness. obviously love for this and that cannot exist is that state. a virtual ego or sense of self is necessary before you can love another. how can you love someone else when you don't have a self to do the loving? the question i'm asking is how can it be said that love for particular things is constant if it doesn't persist during the ego less state? the reason i brought up drugs is that they can be used to induce ego loss. if you need to see for yourself you can smoke a bowl of salvia extract or eat 10 hits of acid. you will experience ego loss. i mentioned sleep because deep dreamless sleep is also a suspension of the ego, the difference is that in sleep the ego is lost unconsciously.
Hmm, I have experienced ego-death and felt total connection to everything and nothingness. But in that nothingness and everything and the space between the two...(Creative force)(one for all all for one) there is something very powerful and loving. It was like being in an ocean of flowing love, wave after wave, constant flowing and connectiveness. It was beautiful, serene and exciting, yet total peacefullness and acceptance, and just is.
God is Love. Love is a gift and a choice. I also experienced so much love of this white light surrounding me that it was too much for one person to handle. So what did this tell me, that love is to be an extension of self, our purpose, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
We are the light of the world....and love is the provider, we are the receipeants. Who will accept the blessings and who will turn away from blessings. Life and breath of God is a blessing every breath we take.
breath in the power of God, ask, knock and doors open. Use wisely..
WISDOM comes and wisdom goes, but love never dies.
God is Love. Love is a gift and a choice. I also experienced so much love of this white light surrounding me that it was too much for one person to handle. So what did this tell me, that love is to be an extension of self, our purpose, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
We are the light of the world....and love is the provider, we are the receipeants. Who will accept the blessings and who will turn away from blessings. Life and breath of God is a blessing every breath we take.
breath in the power of God, ask, knock and doors open. Use wisely..
WISDOM comes and wisdom goes, but love never dies.
wanderer21
Bluelighter
I'm sure you are not going to like this..but I haven't found one solid "real" article about this "ego death" bullshit.
The things I have read seem to be all drug induced and just the explanation of it seems like bullshit. I even signed onto my college library's site and ran a search and came up with nothing. Not one article.
Are you describing something like self-actualization? I'm not following you at all?
It appears to me that some drug induced people made up some bullshit theory.
I mean you no offense I promise...
Perhaps I am the only bluelighter with this opinion, but I don't think that you can judge any part of reality while drug induced--because while under the influence, you aren't in reality as we all know it...you are in your only drug filled reality where the same rules don't apply (IMO)
The things I have read seem to be all drug induced and just the explanation of it seems like bullshit. I even signed onto my college library's site and ran a search and came up with nothing. Not one article.
Are you describing something like self-actualization? I'm not following you at all?
It appears to me that some drug induced people made up some bullshit theory.
I mean you no offense I promise...
Perhaps I am the only bluelighter with this opinion, but I don't think that you can judge any part of reality while drug induced--because while under the influence, you aren't in reality as we all know it...you are in your only drug filled reality where the same rules don't apply (IMO)
wanderer21 said:
if something is constant then it can not be altered or interrupted by drugs or anything else. the mind is not constant as it susceptible to alteration by drugs and other things. you don't need drugs to understand this, i tried to make it clear that i was suggesting them only as proof that the mind was malleable for anyone who somehow doubts this. but cleary you agree since you yourself claim you cannot judge reality while under the influence of drugs (thus implying that the mind is malleable). now here is my argument:
the mind is required to love another person/love for another person exists within the mind.
the mind is not constant.
therefore love for another person is not constant.
so really you don't need to understand ego loss to understand my argument, it was just an example. but if you want to understand ego loss conceptually i suggest you study buddhism. buddhism provides a conceptual understanding as well as practises designed to aid in reaching permament ego loss without any drugs. it dates back over a thousand years long before any articles about drug indced ego loss.
but you are never in reality as we all know it. there is no consensus reality. you are always in the reality created by your own mind and everyone's reality is different (some more than others) regardless of whether they are on drugs.
as far as reality, i believe there is a reality which undermines the ever changing unrealities in the mind. this is the reality that everything springs forth from. it is pure existance and constant and as i said earlier in this thread i believe it is love. nvr2old's post describes an experience which could support this theory.
David
Ex-Bluelighter
To bad that Freud was proven to be correct this past summer, so all of you should stop before you get too in depth with this theoretical stuff.
part of loving someone ought to intail the mindfullness of the changing situations and how that love should and should not be applied. Parents often become the imature one in the latter cycles of life and that impermanence should be noted to build the necaccary adjustments in a relationship while maintaining the respect that immaturity often does not get in the earlier cycle of life, it is easy to get flustered and confused in this regard.
bf and gf change as well, some times sex is eliminated from the picture or the status in of it's self but there is no reasonable reason why the love should siese to be just because the relationship is not what we had wanted it to be.
bf and gf change as well, some times sex is eliminated from the picture or the status in of it's self but there is no reasonable reason why the love should siese to be just because the relationship is not what we had wanted it to be.
wanderer21
Bluelighter
deviate said:
Well there you go, now I know why I didn't know what the hell you were talking about. I am, nor ever will be a buddist or even studying it. Sorry!
As far what you are saying about the topic here, I understand what you are saying but I don't identify with it nor adopt this ideology for myself.
The people I love today are the people I loved yesterday and the people I will love tomorrow. I don't think you need to think about love every moment or identify with it every moment in order for it to be constant.
Change, we all agree on, is constant. But, is every single moment that we live different than the one before. Hell some people become so complacent that they wake up 5 years down the road and think that they haven't changed one bit, yet they look 5 years older and have gained 5 years experience.
In the same regard, some people think that they have never loved or have never been loved..yet, ask someone who knows them and they will say that they have sincere love for that person.
Obviously, this is not a concrete issue (great thread though Larr!). I just don't think that love is measurable like how you describe and I don't think that just because someone is under the influence of drugs, sleeping, ego loss budda bulllshit, etc., etc., that their love for themselves and others disappears (even momentarily). I do think love in its essence is constant and always will be constant...again, because it changes.
_____________________
David: Freud was proven correct? By whom and how so? Sorry, any theorist male/female, purple/blue that says one entire gender does not suffer from illness except hysteria is a bullshit theorist, IMHO. I would like to hear what you have to say about that...perhaps bump the old Theories of Personality thread that I started awhile back.
yougene
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 19, 2003
- Messages
- 3,336
wanderer21 said:
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think you are looking at love in the same perspective as everyone else as you are talking about it from only the human perspective. There is love beyond the human experience. To many love is a fundamental driving force of the construct we inhabit. To many the fundamental forces of change and love are one and the same.
wanderer21 said:
i don't understand how what you're saying is any different from what i've said. you simply insist on disagreeing and putting it in different terms. you say that love in its essense is constant, that's the exactly the point i've been trying to make. in the waking state the love becomes manifest in the outward going mind and during deep sleep it resolves into its source or essence. the essence is constant and always there but the manifested love appears and dissapears along with the outward going mind. the outward going mind is constantly in a state of change and thus it's emotions are not constant. this is what buddhism says. you don't seem to be understanding the difference between the manifested human emotion of love and the essence.
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