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If the only thing constant is change...

Larr_E

Larr_E

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
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Highland, Ca
...then what about love? I don't mean the "love" between a boyfriend and a girlfriend, I mean the kind between a parent and child or in my case a uncle a nephew. How does this factor into the equation? I don't think you can, in some cases, stop loving your own flesh and blood.
 
yeah, taking certain drugs can completely change your state of mind eliminating love for your child so that love is by no means constant. its dependent on your state of mind.
 
I don't think any amount of any kind of drugs could alter the love I have for my nephews. Can some parents back me up on this one?
 
of course drugs can alter it. drink a 5th of vodka, or take 10 hits of acid, or eat a quarter of mushroom. you won't even be aware you have nephews. your love for your nephews is in your mind. the mind is 100% malleable and impermanent. the conscious experience corresponds exactly to the physical state of the brain.
 
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Just because science can explain for parts of love and can show certain chemical or psychological changes that are purely scientific for love does not mean that love is ONLY a chemical thing, it definately partly is but anyone who trully understands love understands this... I agree with you Larr_E
 
mushman1 said:
Just because science can explain for parts of love and can show certain chemical or psychological changes that are purely scientific for love does not mean that love is ONLY a chemical thing, it definately partly is but anyone who trully understands love understands this... I agree with you Larr_E
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i believe pure existence is love. but pure existence goes beyond the mind, as far as the mind and love for this and that - it is completely malleable. smoke a bowl of 10x salvia extract and try to tell me otherwise. explain how you think the mind is permanent and real. the mind has a dependent existance only. this has nothing to do with science, it's simply a matter of wrong identification with the mind as the self.
 
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Some things don't ever really die in the soul of a person, and I think this is one of them. I think a certain love comes inherently with kinship, and no matter how much of a fuck up they might become, there is always something there. Being pissed at them signals that we still care; if we avoid them, it's because they still have the power to affect us. In this regard, I don't think this love dies, but it can be corrupted, and can degenerate if not replenished.
 
deviate said:
i believe pure existence is love. but pure existence goes beyond the mind, as far as the mind and love for this and that - it is completely malleable. smoke a bowl of 10x salvia extract and try to tell me otherwise. explain how you think the mind is permanent and real. the mind has a dependent existance only. this has nothing to do with science, it's simply a matter of wrong identification with the mind as the self.
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I feel exactly the same way. Love is beyond constancy, it's absolute. I didn't need salvia to come to that conclusion either. But unfortunately, this definition leads to much misunderstanding.

Larr_E, what happens when your neice and nephew grow up and become adults? You cannot guarrantee that the connection you feel now will always be. People change as you pointed out, and by automatically elevating those of "the same blood" you can only damage relationships as it creates labels and boundaries between you and them. Rather than seeing Neice and Nephew ( or brother/sister, wife/husband, mum/dad, etc etc), why not just see Bob, Jill, Bill, Jen, etc (whatever their specific names are)? Labels also create obligations which hides or creates fraudulent sincerity.
 
mushman1 said:
Just because science can explain for parts of love and can show certain chemical or psychological changes that are purely scientific for love does not mean that love is ONLY a chemical thing, it definately partly is but anyone who trully understands love understands this... I agree with you Larr_E
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We could into why it's your perception that is flawed, as well as you being delusional. ;)

Don't take offense to me singling you out, it was easier to post a counter to your thread, and cover everyone, than to post to anyone else's, and do the same. Saving bandwidth, and time here.
 
Left to Right said:
I feel exactly the same way. Love is beyond constancy, it's absolute. I didn't need salvia to come to that conclusion either. But unfortunately, this definition leads to much misunderstanding.

Larr_E, what happens when your neice and nephew grow up and become adults? You cannot guarrantee that the connection you feel now will always be. People change as you pointed out, and by automatically elevating those of "the same blood" you can only damage relationships as it creates labels and boundaries between you and them. Rather than seeing Neice and Nephew ( or brother/sister, wife/husband, mum/dad, etc etc), why not just see Bob, Jill, Bill, Jen, etc (whatever their specific names are)? Labels also create obligations which hides or creates fraudulent sincerity.
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i didn't need salvia to reach the conclusion either. i was merely suggesting it as proof that the mind can be changed to something completely different (for people who identify with the mind as themselves).
 
I love my parents but I have hated them as well. The two come and go depending on current events.
 
the original poster needs to clarify what he means. he says the only thing constant is change (is that even true? some would say absolute being is constant) and then goes on to ask if love for something particular is constant as well. what does he mean by constant? under the normal definition of the word, obviously not. does love for this and that persist while in deep sleep? of course not, so love for this and that doesn't even last more than a day without interuption. how can anyone say it is constant without providing a different definition for constant?
 
deviate said:
the original poster needs to clarify what he means. he says the only thing constant is change (is that even true? some would say absolute being is constant) and then goes on to ask if love for something particular is constant as well.
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"The only thing constant is change" is a famous saying. The point of this thread is to contest that theory. I chose love as a jumping off point. Clarifying would draw closer to an "answer" when in fact there is not one. Its philosophy brother, if you're looking for an answer to this then you'll be looking for a long time...
 
No philosophy requires a thought to start on. Where you take it from there is up to you...

phi·los·o·phy
n. pl. phi·los·o·phies
Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
 
Only thing constant is change Love also changes

Larr_E, you love your nephews now. You will probably always love your nephews, but the quality of that love will change. Right now you love tem because they are young and innocent, and because of their connection with yourself and their parents. As you watch your nephews grow and change, your love will also grow and change. You will appreciate them more as individuals and as the next generation.
When they are old enough, you may come to love them as drinking buddies and mates.

The same thing goes between husband and wife - Lust, Infatuation, Companion

So, using this love thing as a way to disprove the theory that the only thing constant is change does not work, as love does change, but can still be called love.


:)
 
well what are your thoughts then? how can you say love is constant when it doesn't persist during deep sleep or under certain other conditions? why does it require conditions if it is constant?
 
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