If I had this to do all over again I would NOT taper.

Bojangles69

Bluelighter
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May 20, 2009
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This thought was becoming more and more prevalent in my mind lately just taking an objective look at my current perception of tapering and comparing it to the last time I cold turkeyed.

So I asked myself whats the number one reason *I* chose to taper?
And the answer is simple, to reduce pain and stay functional while getting off opiates.

The key phrase here I'm focusing on is "to reduce pain".

Now I look back about 4 years ago when I went to detox, and remember EVEN WHEN I was at my peak on day 3, I vividly recall playing ping pong with the other patients and still having a good time and laughn with them. In fact, I wasn't really sick at all. Detox had given me such a specific and effective cocktail of meds, that I basically experienced minor wds for only 6 days, pretty close to the intensity of the begining of my taper.

I started my taper on May 14th, expecting to be off by Jun 14th, and having the rest of the summer to work, get in shape, and just live my life for once.

So how is it, that I originally estimated 4 weeks to drop this habit, and now I'm 4 days shy of **3 fucking months** tapering? I couldn't possibly be that big a pussy =] theres just no way lol. 3 weeks of that time was spent maintaining on 1 specific dose during vacation. So technically I've only been tapering for 2 months and 1 week.. but STILL, wtf?!

I only remember a slight case of RLS for those initial 3 days of detox, I've been dealing with RLS for 3-4 weeks now, and finally just got rid of it. But its not just that its so many other symptoms that seemed to have been drawn out by this taper and I think I know why. I honestly believe when you cold turkey it forces your receptors to adapt at a much quicker rate than when you taper. I think when you taper you somewhat confuse your receptors into a delayed withdrawal syndrome, and even when you get low your body still has problems properly overcoming those symptoms.

I just can't understand for the life of me why I'd ever subject myself to this crap again.. tapering that is. To be in minimal wds for 9 weeks (and still going) vs being in minimal wds for 1-2 weeks with meds, the answer is pretty clear cut.

The ONLY real reason I tapered is because I had no access to withdrawal meds. But when I thought about it, I've ALWAYS had access to those meds. And when I think about it further ANYONE on this forum has access to those meds if they just use their brain. You don't need to see a dr if thats your hang up, I'm not advocating illegal activity but lets face it ordering a bunch of non controlled meds online really isn't that dangerous. And I've done it so many times before with controlled meds I question now why the hell I just didn't do this sooner.

I've been sweating toxic waste oil out of my pores for 3 months now, when I could have just took some clonidine and not delt with it.
My muscle aches, nervousness and restlesness, soma could have handled it all. Darvocets and tramadol aren't opiates, they're opoids, and I've noticed they don't really delay wds at all like actual opiates do. If you take 1 of them long enough obviously you risk addiction, but in terms of actually delaying wds I've never had either darvs or tram do it to me.

If I ever had to do it again, I'd do it the right way and just get the meds,

Soma
Neurontin
Clonidine
Tramadol or Darvocet
(benzo optional as neurontin has enough gaba effects by itself imo)

and THATS IT. If you have enough of each one of those meds, I really see most people minimizing their wds at least 80-90%. Maybe if you're coming off heroin it would help to throw in a benzo, but for most moderate habits I think those 4 alone would work perfectly.

I just can't help thinking how much pain I actually wound up going through with this process, when just going cold turkey with the right meds essentially produces the same threshold of pain, very minimal. I wasted money on tons of immodium (which helped a lot but never enough), kratom, diphenhydramine, 5-htp, melotonin, vitamins, OTC cold and flu medicine, so much shit that really didn't do much of anything at all. Why? Because I wanted to do everything legally? While I was ALREADY ABUSING AN OPIATE? What a lame excuse that was.
I'm not in a bad mood I'm just trying to be logical about this. I wasted essentially my entire summer with "minor" wds, which in all honesty weren't much better than all out wds. I mean RLS is RLS whether its minor or your kicking holes in your wall your NOT SLEEPING either way.
Same with the hot flashes and chills, I noticed whether they're severe or minor either way they both suck. And if you got to work as long as you have the right meds its not gonna be a whole hell of a lot harden than if your tapering. Unless you plan on doing it for 6 months or something.
Theres obviously exceptions to this rule, like the people who slam 30 bags of dope a day. But I had just as serious if not more serious of a habit the first time. And it honestly feels like the sum total amount of pain was not even 5% of all the shit I've experienced by tapering this time around.

But don't get me wrong if you can only cold turkey w/out any meds to assist you, than by far do a taper. But no matter what, if I ever have to do this crap again (which I'm obviously not planning on) I'm just getting my hands on the right meds and jumping off from day 1. Or maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, maybe those detox meds don't help everyone like they help me, but I really don't remember remotely as much bullshit as this time around.

Rant over.
 
In my experience- tapers are good for easing some of the extreme physical symptoms such as puking, etc. I haven't found them useful for avoiding depression, RLS, insomnia and the rest of that miserable cohort. My philosophy has always been to do a quick taper- and then just deal with the shit.
 
I happen to agree with you. I think long tapers are good if you've got a busy job and you just can't afford to be really sick. But just dealing is scarier but more effective. Such a huge component of w/d is psychological that I think that tapering allows the mind to enhance the seriousness of any subtle symptom. And tapering extends the period of low-energy depression.

That's long tapers though. I do think that short tapers before the jump are pretty effective. (They've certainly worked for me in the past.) It all depends on the habit and how psychologically motivated you are.

Most importantly though, you're effectively at the end of your taper and you've pulled it off so this is the time to congratulate yourself. And the time for me to extend congratulations. You did it and that's worthy of mad respect.

Thanks for posting your view though since there are many of us starting a kick every day.
 
Just like anything tapering has its flaws but so does abusing drugs. This last time I think I would have done things different. I had a relatively short taper with my benzos habit [klonopin/many years] and sometimes I wonder if I did it to quick I still get shaky way to often. Also shaky, anxiety, no motivation, etc. I dropped from a stable 6/8mg klonopin & 2mg ativan to 2mg Klonopin/.5 Ativan in the course of 3/5 months. Than hopped off and rode a living hell of a rollercoaster ride for 1.5 years. I medicated with neurontin/lyrica for shakes, helped for a little bit than it increased my shakes.

I also decided at this time to kick the suboxone I had been taking for 8 fucking years. That lasted about 48 hours. So I waited for my body to stabilize from the benzo withdrawl that took 14 months till I was sort of feeling better. Than I jumped off the bupe [1mg-.5mg nasal] and relapsed on H which I had not touched in yeaarss. Than got Tramadol and did a taper with that. I dont know why the fuck I waited that long or really what I was thinking but using the Tram helped so fucking much.

I took it for 2 weeks and I still could feel slight w/d from the bupe while dosing on the tram. Completely bearable. Stopped and starting taking klonopin again to cover up opiate w/d, etc. doh! That stopped after about 1.5 months and that was at Easter. To think that I started taking bupe/klonopin/adderall to get off drugs. 8)

I still get shaky, sweat, no real cravings though. Its been a long time coming and I realize man that whole situation fuct me up but now I can see marked improvements monthly kinda. If I applied myself and completely changed who I am things might be better. Than again I sometimes struggle with wanting to change who I am. By that I mean my attitude, exercise, etc.

I still go to NA/AA meetings and I guess that helps and I dont know why I typed all that out. I guess to remind myself how far I have came. Things are ok.

peace.
seedless
 
Woww just wow. Using the word "nightmare" wouldn't even justify what you went through. 1.5 years of not feeling right could easily take me out of this world. The fact you made it that long shows how unbreakable you really are.

And I'm glad to see the tram helped you, tram is a very useful drug when used properly. I have a little bit coming myself for when I stop the sub and I have high hopes for it. Its extended release and I'm only gonna take like 100mg a day for the first week or so off sub. And I never had it delay my wds either which is what I like the best about it.

I agree with everything else that was said too. And thanks artaxerxes for the congrats, its much appreciated.
 
I remember we were talking about this before Bojangles, but you said you had your reasons for taper. Personally I do maybe a 3-4 day taper where I just do the bare minimum not to get sick and then jump off. A long taper is pretty much impossible for me.
 
yeh.... a long taper often becomes an indefinite taper.

When you're kickin' cold or doing a short fast taper, don't take anything remotely related to opiates..... even tramadol. you may feel better for a little while, but it just takes that much longer to get through the w/d's.

Clonidine works well for keeping the intensity of acute w/d low, and doesn't seem to to prolong the w/d's. Still, I'd only use it for the first couple days.

Gabapentin (Neurontin) in high doses (2400mg) works very well at keeping the RLS & shakes to a minimum. But pregabalin (Lyrica) is even better starting around 600mg.

Flexeril and/or Baclofen are also good RLS & spasm inhibitors, and Flexeril usually will knock you out.

Trazadone is also a great thing to have for getting decent sleep, and it's an antidepressant.

Promethazine (Phenergan) is a potent anti-nausea med, and it'll also put you into the dark-world hard. It's a strong antihistamine, and is very useful in treating acute w/d's. At least in my experience.
Ondansetron (Zofran) is another powerful anti-nausea med, usually used for chemo-therapy nausea, but it works a lot better than promethazine in that it doesn't cause sleepiness, and is also better than clonidine for treatment of acute w/d's. I much prefer this one to phenergan.
 
I'm only gonna take like 100mg a day for the first week or so off sub.

Forget the tram, my friend. You're just postponing the inevitable. If I were you I'd just get done with this whole thing ASAP. There will never be a good time to w/d, there will always be some complicating factor or seemingly rational reason to taper off just a little more. You're probably at the point where you can put all this behind you with the taper you've already done. While there will be some tough days ahead of you- at least you have some sleep meds and clonidine to help you I believe? My humble advice would be to just stick with these and avoid opiates from now on.

In any case- good luck with everything.
 
Using the word "nightmare" wouldn't even justify what you went through.

Yeah it definitely hasn't been fun. Sometimes I wonder when the last time I had fun was. Just quitting the drugs was the easy part. Conditioning myself to live daily with out the use of pills/dope has been much harder. All I knew was drugs/booze/girls. Now I am sometimes clueless. I am in school and that helps to make me feel not completely useless but otherwise I can go weeeks/months/years with out doing much. I used to be completely different I was outgoing, happy, had everything I wanted, etc. but now wow what a difference. It seems to me that I complain alot on here and I tend to focus on negative things when in actuality things are pretty damn good. It just feels like I am missing something but that is ok I will eventually find it.

I like to think of it as a necessary nightmare something I should have dealt with long ago but I didnt, oh well. Sometimes I feel just like saying fuck it all and high tailing it to Vermont/New Hampshire and just get away from normal society. I have already done that though more times than I care to think about and drug use only tended to continue.

Who knows. I do know that if I stay on this path things will just continue to get better. :\

peace.
seedless
 
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