deroxor
Bluelighter
Hes got you all with this oneTurbo Monk said:
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If homosexuality is in nature...
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ebola?
Bluelight Crew
>>The argument will be made, "but I've always been attracted to the same sex so it's not a choice". I find this to be a very valid response. As products of our social conditioning, factors which have been around before our birth attribute to our behaviors which most certainly affect our sexual orientation.>>
Right. Biology or social conditioning, sexual orientation is hardly a matter of choice. Did you choose to be heterosexual?
>>Meaningless stats. You can find trends in numbers for anything, that doesn't make it the determining factor.>>
Hah..."the evidence is ambiguous. Let's ignore it!" Tell me, how are you able to form views? Via pure assumption?
ebola
Right. Biology or social conditioning, sexual orientation is hardly a matter of choice. Did you choose to be heterosexual?
>>Meaningless stats. You can find trends in numbers for anything, that doesn't make it the determining factor.>>
Hah..."the evidence is ambiguous. Let's ignore it!" Tell me, how are you able to form views? Via pure assumption?
ebola
Pomplemous
Bluelighter
Turbo Monk said:
it is purely nature.
nature is loving others of the same sex and nature is loving those of the other sex as well.
yeah if the human population wants to survive as it is, then man/woman is the way to go - but it does not mean that it is wrong to love another of the same sex - that love is equally valid under God or as self-rule.
it is not revolting, it is not unnatural, it is not abnormal
it is just nature.
LIVE AND LET LIVE!
Turbo Monk
Bluelighter
- Joined
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ebola! said:
yes I choose to be heterosexual.
So you find a trend in the brains of people who have died of AIDS and that rules out any possibility of it being a choice? How many brains did they use for this study? How do you know the results weren't related to the disease? Think the researcher may have gotten funding from a biased group and/or approached the experiment with motives to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING to present as evidence?
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Assuming that you believe that homosexuality is a sin (which is not set out in the bible as a sin), if all mankind are sinners (which we are according to the bible), then who cares which sin is committed by whom? God didn't put the commandments in order from 1 being minor and 10 being the worst.
Matthew 7:1-5
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
So from a christian point of view, all sinners are subject to original sin, and therefore should love one another so as not to be hypocrites.
As far as survival goes, a population will not die out due to homosexuality. It never has, and it never will, because heterosexuals have just as good a chance of being born as homosexuals. Considering that everyone who is alive has a mother, even if they are artificially inseminated. And furthermore, heterosexual couples can have as many kids as they can handle...so I wouldn't worry.
We are in more danger from violence than "sexual deviance"
Matthew 7:1-5
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
So from a christian point of view, all sinners are subject to original sin, and therefore should love one another so as not to be hypocrites.
As far as survival goes, a population will not die out due to homosexuality. It never has, and it never will, because heterosexuals have just as good a chance of being born as homosexuals. Considering that everyone who is alive has a mother, even if they are artificially inseminated. And furthermore, heterosexual couples can have as many kids as they can handle...so I wouldn't worry.
We are in more danger from violence than "sexual deviance"
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Turbo Monk
Bluelighter
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^ I agree. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
I'll take a wild guess and think your post was directed at me, since every other post was opposing my views.
An experiment as the one I described would have pretty clear results: the hetero group would survive and the homo group would die off. From this, one could conclude that hetero societies promote life and continuation of species, while homo societies promote death and extermination of species.
It's a sociological hypothesis WhyzFool, not a judgement.
I'll take a wild guess and think your post was directed at me, since every other post was opposing my views.
An experiment as the one I described would have pretty clear results: the hetero group would survive and the homo group would die off. From this, one could conclude that hetero societies promote life and continuation of species, while homo societies promote death and extermination of species.
It's a sociological hypothesis WhyzFool, not a judgement.
BohdiPavlovian
Bluelighter
WHAT IS NOT NATURAL?
did you know the giant panda has a gestation of two years, it then bares a cub less then a pound and a two hundred pound female will let one of a litter of two die to care for just the one cub every time. Why is that? this is an animal on the virge of exstinction and I love the fact that it may not be mans fault. Exstincion is natural, not that homosexuality is threatning our survival, but it's place in nature is the opposite of the furtherment of the species and there is no way around that fact. But I believe you have the right to stick your penis in anyone who is of age and wants it.
did you know the giant panda has a gestation of two years, it then bares a cub less then a pound and a two hundred pound female will let one of a litter of two die to care for just the one cub every time. Why is that? this is an animal on the virge of exstinction and I love the fact that it may not be mans fault. Exstincion is natural, not that homosexuality is threatning our survival, but it's place in nature is the opposite of the furtherment of the species and there is no way around that fact. But I believe you have the right to stick your penis in anyone who is of age and wants it.
In my opinion, the probrem with your hypothetical model is that it is based on an overt simplism. Your dualism does not take into account the great variety of sexual expression found in humankind.
Check this out for an interesting read:
The Trouble With Normal
Check this out for an interesting read:
The Trouble With Normal
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
>>Originally posted by ebola!
Right. Biology or social conditioning, sexual orientation is hardly a matter of choice. Did you choose to be heterosexual?
yes I choose to be heterosexual.>>
perhaps I phrased this wrong. Do you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?
>>Hah..."the evidence is ambiguous. Let's ignore it!" Tell me, how are you able to form views? Via pure assumption?
So you find a trend in the brains of people who have died of AIDS and that rules out any possibility of it being a choice? How many brains did they use for this study? How do you know the results weren't related to the disease? Think the researcher may have gotten funding from a biased group and/or approached the experiment with motives to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING to present as evidence?>>
No...Like I said, the evidence is abiguous and does not imply that we make a causal inference. But what evidence we do have (and there is a growing body of research) is better than naked presupposition. I would also like to say that the assumption that sexual identity is a choice would be a very bizzare null hypothesis to begin from.
ebola
Right. Biology or social conditioning, sexual orientation is hardly a matter of choice. Did you choose to be heterosexual?
yes I choose to be heterosexual.>>
perhaps I phrased this wrong. Do you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?
>>Hah..."the evidence is ambiguous. Let's ignore it!" Tell me, how are you able to form views? Via pure assumption?
So you find a trend in the brains of people who have died of AIDS and that rules out any possibility of it being a choice? How many brains did they use for this study? How do you know the results weren't related to the disease? Think the researcher may have gotten funding from a biased group and/or approached the experiment with motives to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING to present as evidence?>>
No...Like I said, the evidence is abiguous and does not imply that we make a causal inference. But what evidence we do have (and there is a growing body of research) is better than naked presupposition. I would also like to say that the assumption that sexual identity is a choice would be a very bizzare null hypothesis to begin from.
ebola
BohdiPavlovian
Bluelighter
ebola are you debating yourself?.......I have seen research that did say SOME gay men had a smaller (hypothalimus?) I think, which if water boy serves me.....agression maybe....oh no madoola abalongoda.......no kernal sanders your wrong! I don't know........
the normal issue is a good point, who sais marriage is a good atainment for the individual. I believe my nature is monogamos but marriage by our norms not only means less and less but is a representation of norms I find unethical. diamonds, owner ship, churches, "so help you god"- I can uphold more meaningful relations for decades with out all the show, and actions speak louder then words.
for some, comitment is not of sex but of soul and monogomy is irrelivant, verriations of spice are irrelivant, but those people should not be seeking out the label of marriage, because gay or straight that is monogomy.
the normal issue is a good point, who sais marriage is a good atainment for the individual. I believe my nature is monogamos but marriage by our norms not only means less and less but is a representation of norms I find unethical. diamonds, owner ship, churches, "so help you god"- I can uphold more meaningful relations for decades with out all the show, and actions speak louder then words.
for some, comitment is not of sex but of soul and monogomy is irrelivant, verriations of spice are irrelivant, but those people should not be seeking out the label of marriage, because gay or straight that is monogomy.
kittyinthedark
Bluelight Crew
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- 10,887
It is absolutely irrelevant that homosexuality does not produce offspring. It can still be natural. And it is natural.
Turbomonk: if you want studies that don't use AIDS patients' brains, and you want the proof that we've had for a while that homosexuality is a fact not a choice, go type "INAH3 cluster" and "hypothalamus" into any search engine. You'll be inundated with studies showing that people can, in fact, be born gay. I'd also like to point out that since you're saying you "choose to be hetero" that must mean you're attracted to men and choose not to act on it. Otherwise you'd be hetero by default, NOT by choice. Maybe the problem here is that you're ashamed of your own homosexuality?
Turbomonk: if you want studies that don't use AIDS patients' brains, and you want the proof that we've had for a while that homosexuality is a fact not a choice, go type "INAH3 cluster" and "hypothalamus" into any search engine. You'll be inundated with studies showing that people can, in fact, be born gay. I'd also like to point out that since you're saying you "choose to be hetero" that must mean you're attracted to men and choose not to act on it. Otherwise you'd be hetero by default, NOT by choice. Maybe the problem here is that you're ashamed of your own homosexuality?
Judas
Bluelighter
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- 311
Your experiment, Turbomonk, is ridiculous.
It proves nothing and isnt relevant whatsoever.
Nobody disputes that it takes a man and a woman to
procreate( actually, it just takes an egg from a woman
and a sperm from a man.) All your experiment does is prove that a population dies if the people dont procreate. Again, everybody knows this, nobody is disputing that.
But whats the point of your experiment? How is it relevant
to our society where a small percentage of the population are homosexual? Are you afraid that somehow homosexuality will bring about the end of society as we know it?
Come on, thats ridiculous.
It proves nothing and isnt relevant whatsoever.
Nobody disputes that it takes a man and a woman to
procreate( actually, it just takes an egg from a woman
and a sperm from a man.) All your experiment does is prove that a population dies if the people dont procreate. Again, everybody knows this, nobody is disputing that.
But whats the point of your experiment? How is it relevant
to our society where a small percentage of the population are homosexual? Are you afraid that somehow homosexuality will bring about the end of society as we know it?
Come on, thats ridiculous.
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Christian Soldier
Ex-Bluelighter
That song is cool Noodle :D
michael
Bluelight Crew
Turbo Monk said:
yeah, because no heterosexual has ever died of aids.
8(
Christian Soldier
Ex-Bluelighter
Does anyone know how the first human contracted aids? As far as I know it's a bit of a mystery, but I have heard stories that the first man got it from a primate.
BohdiPavlovian
Bluelighter
realy, I wonder just what you think a primate is....I heard we got it from a small african monkey, and let us not forget about the killer african bees (moore rules) but since we are letting africa die for vacation space then aids must have come from there.....right?
Turbo Monk
Bluelighter
- Joined
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- 739
kittyinthedark said:
I can see a dude and think to myself, "that's a good looking guy", but it stops there. Desire leads to temptation, and if I don't desire sexual intimacy from a guy, I can't be tempted.
The point of my experiment is to raise the question do homosexual relationships promote life or death? Looks like we've drawn the same conclusion.