Misc ibogaine help and advice

[ascenti0n]

hi everyone,
I am going to try ibogaine to kick my methadone addiction and I am hoping for some help and advice.
I am a male weighing about 98 kg (i put on a lot of weight since starting methadone) i am 25years old and am currently on 90mg of methadone daily for the last 2 years, before that i was addicted to heroin for a few years.

From what I have read the dosage is 15-25mg/kg I was planning on getting 2 grams of HCl and 10grams of powdered root bark which should equal 2500mg of ibogaine in total,( 2grams hcl=2000mg ibogaine + 10gram rootbark =500mg ibogaine) which should provide the maximum dose should i need it. I was going to get the whole lot as the root bark but i thought it would be much much easier to take the hcl.

I will have 2 friends to watch me during the treatment, one of them is a qualified paramedic.

What would be an ideal test dose, and how long should i wait until re-dosing? Should I dose in 500mg(ibogaine) increments after that? 3 hours apart?
Can anyone please give me some advice, techniques, tips etc. to ensure not only my safety but an effective outcome as well.
I would greatly appreciate any help anyone can give. I wont be going through with it for another few weeks so I am trying to research as much as I can now.

Also, would it be more effective to stop methadone for a couple days and use heroin instead? The idea is that because methadone lasts so long it will be harder for the ibogaine to be more effective, i dunno it's just a thought I had.

Thank you.

p.s my apologies if i have posted this in the wrong section or if i have broken any rules.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

It would really be a much better idea to have someone experienced in administering ibogaine for opioid detox supervise this if at all possible.

Using heroin for just a couple days is not going to make that much difference and could be problematic as far as mental addiction is concerned. A better idea would be to taper your methadone dose as low as you can first, and if possible, switch to oral morphine for 2 weeks+ before you start the ibogaine. If neither of those things are an option, you will probably find you need a longer detox process and require booster doses of ibogaine, since methadone withdrawal lasts SO much longer than withdrawal from shorter-acting opioids. I hope your friends can commit to caring for you for several days? The methadone detox in a good ibogaine clinic is often 6-12 days.

You will need at minimum 2 days to recover. There are exceptions of course, some people need only 24 hrs, some need like 5 days.

You will need to do a lot of research (more than just asking on this forum, there are a ton of websites, videos, etc [*ask me if you want some recommendations]) and make sure your care-givers are well-informed about what to expect etc before you attempt this. Don't rush into it, I know it's tempting because you may be really sick of being on methadone and want to get off it ASAP, but you need this detox to be safe and to work properly.

You should really have a physical, EKG, liver function tests, etc done beforehand if possible.

Have a plan for after the ibogaine, as you will still likely have PAWS symptoms like insomnia and will need to replenish your strength, work on your physical and mental health, work on the reasons you used heroin in the first place and learn to cope with cravings.

It is safest/best to go as long as you can handle without any methadone before you take the ibogaine. At least 48 hrs with no methadone is best, 24 hrs minimum.

There are 3 main options for ibogaine treatment (*these are all after a small test dose)
- single administration of 1 high dose ibogaine (with booster doses over the next few days/weeks if needed)
- single day/night of administration of multiple large doses spaced out by a few hours (with booster doses over the next few days/weeks as needed)
- small daily doses of 25-300 mg/day, where the dose is gradually increased each day until it is felt to have been effective for eliminating WDs/cravings (this one can be modified quite a bit)

But I'll assume you're wanting to go with option 2.

A "test dose" is usually around 100mg. The effective dose of ibogaine for opioid detox is generally ~15-20 mg/kg, so 3 doses of 500mg does sound about right for you - but are you male or female? That can make a difference. Should diminishment of withdrawal symptoms not be seen within an hour, upwards modification of the ibogaine doses is sometimes done. But if you're just having friends supervise you who have no experience, it may be wiser to just leave the dose where it is and allow the primary dose of ibogaine to run its course, and then take more a few days later if required.

Not to scare you, but please remember that ibogaine can be dangerous, people have definitely died. Your friend will need to be able to monitor you constantly, properly assess your condition (heart rate, respiration, signs of toxicity etc), be prepared to perform resuscitation procedures if needed and be prepared and not hesitant to call emergency medical assistance if necessary.

Are you taking any other drugs? Do you have any health conditions you know of?

 

[cire113]

See Im down for Ibogaine in the future; but I'm on Sub and the whole switch to an agonist for 2 weeks seems very problematic and troublesome for me.....


OP I would definitely just find an experience ibogaine person; its worth the extra money to do it right and with care.

Good luck

 

[ascenti0n]

thanks a lot for your reply, but now you got me shit scared, i guess i should be.. i am a male, and i *could* get some oxies possibly, would they be ok? i wont be able to go on them for 2 weeks though, can i substitute the methadone for a few days with oxies? or suboxone or something else?
as for the dose itself, i would prefer option 2 as you said. I know it's impossible for anyone to really say what I would need and for how long etc. but as a guide line, could i have a total of 1500- 2000mg of ibogaine during the first night and then the remander (500-1000mg) as boosters? how much is a typical booster dose? (for a 100kg male)

as for going to a proper clinic, i would really prefer that, but the cost is just too great for me, the ibogaine that i have cost me enough as it is. Not to mension that there is no local clinics that do it (that i know of)
But don't get me wrong, i have not made this descision lightly, A friend of mine has gone through it and has said it wasnt easy, and it didn't even work for him.

I recently had a full blood and doctors checkup and everything was fine.
I have been taking Catapres(clonidine) only to compliment the methadone.

Is there anything I can take afterwards to makes things a littke easier?

once again thank you for your replies, much appreciated.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Sorry, didn't mean to freak you out, it's just important to understand what you're getting into and that there are real risks, to make sure you have someone who can monitor you constantly and properly, (while being helpful, compassionate and not freaking out), and that you also don't have unrealistic expectations thinking the ibogaine is going to completely cure you and you will feel fantastic afterwards. Methadone is soul-crushing and limits one's life so much; it's really brave of you to want to get off it and not spend years languishing and making it even harder for yourself to come off it. It's so hard to get off methadone that most people considering ibogaine feel it's worth the risks.

I am curious, have you tried to get off methadone before or taper your dose at all or anything?

I would really try to lower your methadone dose beforehand if you can, it's not generally that hard when you're on 90mg to lower it somewhat, aside from the fear of the unknown. It's usually when you get down low, like under 30mg, that it becomes extremely difficult to taper it. Of course it's different for everyone but this has been my experience and that of the majority of people I know/have talked to.

My main concern about switching to oxycodone for a couple days is will be hard for you mentally? Will it be tempting for you to use more than absolutely necessary? Will you then, if the ibogaine doesn't immediately/completely heal you, want to turn to oxy or heroin? What do you think about it? Oral oxycodone is definitely a better idea than heroin. Suboxone is not a good idea, you have to have a lot of clearance between methadone and Suboxone and between Suboxone and ibogaine.

May I ask, why exactly are you taking the clonidine if you haven't lowered your methadone dose? Was the methadone not enough on it's own? How long have you been taking clonidine? You should gradually taper off that and be off it completely at least a few days before you do the ibogaine (longer would be ideal, as clonidine can cause rebound effects on your blood pressure etc).

The fact that you are male is a good thing, men are generally easier to find the right ibogaine dose for and seem to respond to it better than women according to researchers. A "test dose" of 100mg and 3 doses of 500mg should be good. Booster doses would depend on how you felt at the time. It can range from 30mg-500mg.

I think personally I'd prefer just the pure ibogaine because it's easy to measure precise doses and to take it, and there is variability with the root. Were you wanting to use some root in order to get the other alkaloids in it, or for a more traditional experience or something? Were you thinking of doing part ibogaine hcl and part root for each dose?

Afterwards you will want to take a number of vitamins and supplements. It's good to start taking them beforehand too. There are certain things you don't want to take within 24 hrs of the ibogaine though yet would be beneficial to take normally. I can help you come up with a list but it might be easier if you find a good iboga/ibogaine-focussed internet forum or something.

You will also need to make sure you work on the things I mentioned above like the reasons behind your opiate addiction and coping with cravings etc. Ibogaine isn't magic, you still have to do work on yourself.

Do you need any help finding good resources for more info about ibogaine?

Just so you know, I haven't actually done an ibogaine detox myself, I've just done a lot of research on it and have talked to a lot of people who've done it. I opted to go for ayahuasca instead as it is less dangerous and was more readily available for me, but most people find ibogaine generally helps more with the physical withdrawal symptoms than ayahuasca or that they can do a faster detox. I ended up using ayahuasca as part of a taper, as that seemed to fit best with my life and options; I would lower my methadone dose right before the ayahuasca, then do the same again a few weeks later and so on. You can't really do that with ibogaine. *Also if anyone reading this is thinking of using ayahuasca the way I did it's not quite that simple so please let me know as there are a lot of things one needs to know first*. I am still considering ibogaine though, wondering if it would help with PAWS, I'm just more interested in a supervised setting which is unfortunately not readily available to me, and I'm concerned about some health issues I have.

 

[ascenti0n]

I wont be able to get oxies regularly and i am well and truely over and done with being a junky(no offence to anyone) i really don't want to go down that road again.

my methadone script allows me to drop to 80mg atm which i might try on the weekend and i am due for a doc appointment soon so i can see if he can give me greater flexability.

the catapres helps me at night as i start feeling shit and kinda takes the edge off as the
methadone doesn't seem to hold me for as long as i thought it would.

i have not tried to taper down from methadone since i have been on it as im just too scared, but i will try 80mg on saturday (no work)

The reason i didnt get it all as hcl is mainly due to cost. I am not sure as to how i will be mixing the 2 forms, i thought maybe starting off with the rootbark as it will be harder to take the extra capsules during the treatment, if that makes sense..But i am open to suggestion on that one.

I will look into what vitamins are good pre/post treatment and what foods, drugs etc to avoid also, I have found a few ibogaine websites.

May I ask, have you done ibogaine before?

thanks a lot again for your help, i really appreciate it.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Well, if you truly are confident that you can use oral oxycodone very responsibly and only in the minimum amount needed to alleviate withdrawals, then it might help a little bit. I also still strongly recommend trying to taper your methadone dose as low as you possibly can before you do the ibogaine. And taper off the clonidine, make sure you are off it well before you do the ibogaine.

Did you lower your methadone to 80mg? How was it? You should tell your doctor you're wanting to lower your methadone dose and ask him to allow you flexibility in how much you dose - if you are choosing to take a lower dose I don't see why he should have a problem. And I don't know about your country, but here in Canada the pharmacy can not make you take your full dose, you are allowed to take less of it if you choose. Honestly, in my experience the hardest part of tapering when I was at the methadone dose you're at was just the fear of the unknown.

I think you have 3 options for how you dose the hcl and rootbark:
1) like you said, start with the rootbark as it might be harder to take later on;
2) take part root and part hcl every time you dose because this would provide more consistency (for example each 500mg dose could be 3g root (equivalent to ~150mg ibogaine) + 350mg ibogaine hcl; or
3) use only the hcl and save the root for possible small "booster doses" later, if you have 2000mg hcl and you're planning on doing 1 x 100mg test dose + 3 x 500mg doses that should be more than enough.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd do, but if you're going to be using root and hcl I might consider doing part root and part hcl for the "test dose" at least. Like, if you only tried the hcl, how would you know you would have the same reaction to the root? And it's kind of complicated because the strength of the root can't be guaranteed.

No, I have not actually done ibogaine myself, sorry if that makes me seem less credible to you, I have just done a ton of research on it and know people who have used it. I have some relevant experience with my use of ayahuasca, which, while not the same as iboga of course, is more similar to it than any other psychedelics and the descriptions of iboga's effects sound extremely similar to my experiences on ayahuasca (although every experience is unique of course).

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

Let us know how it works out for you. I've heard some great things about ibogaine, and if I could find it I'd probly try it. I wouldn't be too scared if I were u, I think I remember reading on this forum that the chances of dying are pretty low, but def dnt take my word for it

 

[ascenti0n]

it's been 5 days since i droped to 80mg and it hasn't been too bad, i feel a bit restless and agitated at times but for the most part it's been alright.
I have a doc appointment next week so i'll speak to him about it then, i just want to do the treatment as close as possible to the start of my holidays so I have as much time as I can too recover before I go back to work, but I am aiming for just after christmas so I'm not sure how much I will be able to drop my dose before then.

Yeah I heard ibogaine and ayahuasca are very similar, I haven't tried aya yet only smoke dmt, i love that stuff.

Wolfmans_BrothEr:
yeah I will post updates after the treatment, as soon as I am able. Just hope I will have good news to share.



Thanks.