Harm Reduction I think I had a seizure. Did I permanently mess myself up after Phenibut, drinking, etc? What should I do?

[Mycophile]

Ok, so, I'm already someone with an anxiety disorder so I don't want to get myself or want anyone else to get me more freaked out than I should be. I already threw out my Phenibut and I'm guessing others would say I should never do it again but I'll listen to what advice I'm given.

So, I don't take Phenibut that often, but when I do I always end up getting drunk while taking it. For some reason I can drink without Phenibut but if I take Phenibut I WILL end up drinking. So it started where saturday I took some plain leaf kratom. Then when that was wearing off I took 2,450mgs of Phenibut, another dose of plain leaf kratom and some kratom extract. I then worked out hard because I love working out on Phenibut and the euphoria is crazy. I also had a bunch of caffeine in the form of tea which is whatever, and I should note that I also take Klonopin but not much--usually 0.5 during the day and 0.5 at night and I'm on prozac. Later I got drunk on red wine and a little bit of whisky, ate a weed gummy and smoked some weed and as often happens when I drink on Phenibut, I passed out for the night in various places and positions.

I woke up the next day (Sunday) still on Phenibut, and took another dose of plain leaf kratom. When it got to be night time I was really tired cause I kind of didn't sleep well the night before, I was just passed out. I took a 0.50 weed gummy and smoked while on it and was watching some netflix, so I should note that I was also very high on weed when this next thing happened which could have played a role but still...

Suddenly, I REALLY didn't feel right in a way I never have before. I think it might be what certain people call "derealization" or something like that. My vision started getting blurry and my heart started racing. I should note that my window was open cause I was smoking and it was really cold out. I started shivering so I closed the window and put on a long sleeve shirt but the shivering kept getting worse.

The worst part of it was somehow this feeling that I "wasn't properly in my body." Like, it was super uncomfortable even being in my body, like I wanted to run away from my own mind and body but didn't know how. I got in bed because I was shivering uncontrollably and then my arms and legs started shaking uncontrollably, especially my feet. Then I passed out and woke up in the middle of the night 4 hours later, feeling ok, and just went back to sleep for another 8 hours or so.

Now it's been like a good 18 hours or so since that happened, and I'm feeling fine, just a little out of it, but I'm worried. I've always known Phenibut was a bad drug but I've figured I could avoid doing it enough to get withdrawal, which I have, so I'd just be ok. And I know it will be hard to quit and NEVER do it again, especially because of the insane euphoria I get when mixing it with Kratom and then working out.



What I'm scared of, of course more than anything, is that I could have done permanent damage to my brain, but I can't change that now. But I think I probably need to know what exactly I did to myself, just to understand properly and maybe scare myself straight. I wish I could do Phenibut again but this seemed like a strong warning...

 

[Electrum1]

I mean you mixed 5 things together and then mixed alcohol with it. You said you feel better now so just don't do that again and you'll be fine

 

[Mycophile]

I mean you mixed 5 things together and then mixed alcohol with it. You said you feel better now so just don't do that again and you'll be fine

Yeah, I'd assume so. It fucking sucks cause I love the combination of Kratom and Phenibut, and I also like mixing in alcohol, but i'd have to be a complete idiot to do that again right?

I mean, I just don't like my life and I had some of the best euphoria ever the night before and it feels like I should get to enjoy that kind of thing considering nothing else is really going my way. However, whether or not I mess myself up has nothing to do with how much I like it.

And I've done this combo many times and the Phenibut had worn off, and it had never happened before.

But I'd still like a better understanding of what happened on an actual chemical level from someone who understands drugs and neuroscience. I am thinking it had to do with GABA because the night before I'd have flooded my GABA receptors with the combo of drinking and Phenibut right? So I'd have been experiencing some kind of GABA rebound I'd think for sure as that happens even when I just drink. I don't really necessarily think Kratom played a part. But I was high on weed also when it happened. Did that play a part in just creating a heightened state of anxiety? Cause even though I like weed I am more prone to bodily anxiety and noticing anything that my be wrong when high. Any greater explanation of what this really was and the underlying causes would be nice...

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Just going off what you described, it wasn't a seizure.

I would probably blame it on the phenibut anyways. Whenever I took high doses (2.5g+), about 24-30 hours later I would have horrible side effects. Brain zaps, blurry vision, dissociation, and several other things.

For that reason, plus blackouts and other issues it causes, I no longer use phenibut. Combining it with booze and kratom also increased the side effects.

Phenibut has many strange side effects.

 

[negrogesic]

Definitely doesn't sound like a seizure. Sounds more like a glutamate surge inducing intense akathisia and general spasticity. The combo of heavy drinking and phenibut has a particularly tendency to prompt these surges. I remember such an event happening to me with heavy drinking and phenibut. The following morning I was getting these surges of intensely uncomfortable energy; they were pretty unbearable, I feel like jumping out of my own skin. When it started I also wondered if perhaps this was something that was going to preceed a seizure.

It came in wavea. It would get particularly intense, and then fade away abit, then a minute later i was hit by another wave, and this was happening over and over. I didnt know what to do so in my panic I eventually told me girlfriend, I'm freaking out, let's go on a walk, I feel restless and like I need to move. I took a little etizolam before we left hoping it would help. The walk felt kind of surreal and dissociative and the waves were still coming and going. Finally the etizolam kicked in and I felt better.

I think that what you experienced, surges of glutamate (glutaminergic rebound). I've had seizures and they are different (and also don't feature that same kind if anxiety/restlessness, seizures are more of a involuntary physical phenomenon).

You did not do any permanent damage, other than to your psyche due to the memory of the event.

 

[Mycophile]

Definitely doesn't sound like a seizure. Sounds more like a glutamate surge inducing intense akathisia and general spasticity. The combo of heavy drinking and phenibut has a particularly tendency to prompt these surges. I remember such an event happening to me with heavy drinking and phenibut. The following morning I was getting these surges of intensely uncomfortable energy; they were pretty unbearable, I feel like jumping out of my own skin. When it started I also wondered if perhaps this was something that was going to preceed a seizure.

It came in wavea. It would get particularly intense, and then fade away abit, then a minute later i was hit by another wave, and this was happening over and over. I didnt know what to do so in my panic I eventually told me girlfriend, I'm freaking out, let's go on a walk, I feel restless and like I need to move. I took a little etizolam before we left hoping it would help. The walk felt kind of surreal and dissociative and the waves were still coming and going. Finally the etizolam kicked in and I felt better.

I think that what you experienced, surges of glutamate (glutaminergic rebound). I've had seizures and they are different (and also don't feature that same kind if anxiety/restlessness, seizures are more of a involuntary physical phenomenon).

You did not do any permanent damage, other than to your psyche due to the memory of the event.

Thank you. What exactly is a "glutamate surge and general akathisia"? In looking it up, people are saying it's withdrawal, but I only rarely take Phenibut. Is it the same thing as withdrawal and just like what happens as it leaves your system if you have too much in you?

And like, exactly how bad is what happened? Is it really stupid to consider ever taking Phenibut again or drinking on it? I think I shouldn't as this was scary, but if you somehow told me that it was really no big deal and nothing permanent but that it could still happen again, I don't know for sure that I'd be scared off Phenibut forever. I just really like it and how it mixes with Kratom and booze and also makes my workouts like super euphoric.

I guess this is the problem with us drug users: if something feels good enough, even if it also leads to something bad, we need to rationalize how something is "safe enough to do again," and depending on how bad we are, we may need to actually believe that something is going to lead to permanent damage for us to be scared away from it.

I think I heard that you have quit all benzos and GABA drugs. Was this the reason why?

And on a realistic level, would you think that a person "should" be permanently scared away from this combo (and Phenibut in general) based on what happened? Like, am I asking for something REALLY bad to happen if I do it again, or was it the kind of thing that maybe "felt worse than it was"?

 

[Mycophile]

Someone on Reddit said this about weed with glutamate surges/storms, which I was on at the time:

"No no no no no no NO!!! Weed is NOT the answer for glutamate storms! God no! I know from experience weed ABSOLUTELY increases glutamate by a very noticeable margin! If you’re having a storm it’ll make it worse.

I know because I’ve been at war with g storms for like 6 months :/ I have to completely stop smoking weed while it’s recovering or else I’ll fuck myself up. Really sucks but I’d say to abstain from weed completely."


So, if I use weed am I going to bring this on again? What about alcohol? Or is simply not doing Phenibut enough to make sure this doesn't happen again?

 

[Mycophile]

I'd kind of still like an answer on if it's safe to drink or smoke weed or whether that kind of thing will make this happen again.

I know the smart advice is to avoid Phenibut, but I want to find out if I now have a lower thresh hold for that kind of thing happening again even if I drink or smoke weed/eat edibles and if it's true that weed raises glutamate.

I found this on alcohol and glutamate. Does this mean (if true) that drinking doesn't necessarily make glutamate storms more likely to happen?


"Does alcohol increase or decrease glutamate activity?

Some studies have shown that short-term alcohol exposure inhibits glutamate receptor function (Lovinger et al. 1990) and stimulates GABAA receptor function in the hippocampus (Weiner et al. 1994). Therefore, it appears that alcohol might inhibit LTP."