I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

[blueberries]

The latter one would be 2C-C-Dragonfly I believe.

But in all honesty, who really cares what they're called, just get them in my belly!

 

[black53]

Think any of these would work as a mxe/ket replacement?

 

[pharmakos]

i would try them

 

[black53]

I have more

MXE = 3-meo-2-oxo-pce
BXE and IXE got rid of the 3-meo and replaced it with 2-bromo or 2-iodo (ketamine has 2-chloro), but kept the 2-oxo-pce part, so bxe = 2-bromo-2-oxo-pce and ixe = 2-iodo-2-oxo-pce

another option would be to keep the 3-meo-2-oxo and replace pce with other possibilities:

3-meo-2-oxo-pcpr (MXR?)

3-meo-2-oxo-pcpy (MXY?)

3-meo-2-oxo-tcp (MXT?)

3-meo-2-oxo-pcp (MXPCP since MXP is already taken)

3-meo-2-oxo-tiletamine (MXTA?)

3-meo-2-oxo-TCPy (MXTY?)

 

[DL-ark]

Top molecule is originially intended to be an antihistamine/GABA agonist, used as a powerful anxiolytic/antiemetic etc.
The one to the left of that is kind of a silly cyclized GABA/Lactone, made to look a bit like 2cb.
Now here is a silly cyclobutadiene based 2-cb thingy, probably would not be very stable at all, unfortunately.
the methylone look alike I think may have some potential, does anyone know how stable and active this would be?

The rest are just kind of silly.

 

[black53]

The top left looks nice

Idk about your version of bk-mdma, but I'd make bk-5 and 6-mapb.

And some more potential MXE replacements (yeah, I'm bored):
2-chloro-pce

2-chloro-2-oxo-pcp - CXP

2-chloro-2-oxo-pcpr - CXR

2-chloro-2-oxo-pce - CXE

 

[DL-ark]

The top left looks nice

Idk about your version of bk-mdma, but I'd make bk-5 and 6-mapb.

Thanks, the bk-mdma one started out as trying to use propylhexedrine with a methylenedioxy on it, but I figured it would be too unstable with all the lack of bonds on the cyclohexane. However, in theory the bk, and the double bonds wouldn't be needed but it would probably not be very stable, but it might be fairly active, anyway, just kind of playing around.

Anyway, do you know how active the top left would be? Was I correct in saying it would have antihistamine/GABA activity. I think a compound with that sort of activity could be an amazing anxiolytic/sedative. I think it might be better if I put a N,N dimethyl on it, like how diphenhydramine has.

If it doesn't have that activity what do you think it may have?

By the way, I really like the look of CXP

 

[black53]

Sorry, can't say I know if your top left would work or not and I'd rather not guess because it might be totally wrong... it certainly looks like a real drug, if that helps

Thanks for the CXP.... I think that if we start from MXE (3-meo-2-oxo-pce) and ketamine (2-chloro-2-oxo-pcm), the pcm/pce/pcp/... determines the basic duration/potency/binding, the 2-oxo lowers potency and duration to something more manageable and the 3-meo pushes the experience towards something more positive and affects binding to a certain degree. Not sure about the 2-chloro, but perhaps that is responsible for K-holes being easy to achieve?


Were beta fluorine 2c-xs ever considered? The C-F bond is similar to the C-H bond, you'd get rid of dimerization problems, .. Or is there some reason they are likely a bad idea:

What about bk-2c-x-nboh? Again, no dimerization, probably a dose between 10-20 mg, ...:

 

[DL-ark]

Sorry, can't say I know if your top left would work or not and I'd rather not guess because it might be totally wrong... it certainly looks like a real drug, if that helps

Thanks for the CXP.... I think that if we start from MXE (3-meo-2-oxo-pce) and ketamine (2-chloro-2-oxo-pcm), the pcm/pce/pcp/... determines the basic duration/potency/binding, the 2-oxo lowers potency and duration to something more manageable and the 3-meo pushes the experience towards something more positive and affects binding to a certain degree. Not sure about the 2-chloro, but perhaps that is responsible for K-holes being easy to achieve?


Were beta fluorine 2c-xs ever considered? The C-F bond is similar to the C-H bond, you'd get rid of dimerization problems, .. Or is there some reason they are likely a bad idea:

What about bk-2c-x-nboh? Again, no dimerization, probably a dose between 10-20 mg, ...:

I haven't personally seen any beta-fluorines, it definitely looks like an interesting concept as far as research chemical design goes. One concern is the stability of putting a halogen in a spot like that, although I am not quite versed well enough to give a proper prediction.

For the bk-nbome, I think if the dose is lowered by that, it kind of defeats the purpose of NBOMes/NBOHs, one of the big appeals is that they are somewhat similar to LSD, and even come on blotter paper. The low dose also means that it can be mass produced very easily, meaning that they have that trademark NBOx inexpensiveness. If people are looking for a more expensive higher dose psychedelic, generally they would choose the 2Cx series or DOx. Regardless, it may serve as another legal replacement if NBOHs get scheduled.

Anyway, I dont mean to be nitpicky, but your version of your NBOH has an extra carbon inbetween the benzyl and the bk-2cb. What you have there is bk 2cb-NPOH (N-phenyl hydroxy).

 

[black53]

Idk about the synth, that may well be hard, but as far as I know the C-F bond is very strong and once attached the F tends to stay attached. Of course it might interfere with binding or make the duration too long or whatever... idk... but it looks like an obvious substitution to try.

The bk-2c-x-nboh... that's kinda the point it lowers the dose from the very high bk-2c-x dose to something smaller, but doesn't lower it enough to make it super potent and dangerous to handle. It also prevents dimerization. I picked NBOH over NBOMe because the NBOHs have a shorter duration and less unwanted bodyload. Perhaps the duration might even become lower than bk-2c-x, which is a bit long for some people. And if you want it to fit on a blotter... bk-2c-p-nbome might.... or bk-2c-tfm-nbome.

I think the drawing is correct because:
a) a benzyl is this -

b) all other NBxx drawings I've ever seen have the carbon there.

 

[DL-ark]

Idk about the synth, that may well be hard, but as far as I know the C-F bond is very strong and once attached the F tends to stay attached. Of course it might interfere with binding or make the duration too long or whatever... idk... but it looks like an obvious substitution to try.

The bk-2c-x-nboh... that's kinda the point it lowers the dose from the very high bk-2c-x dose to something smaller, but doesn't lower it enough to make it super potent and dangerous to handle. It also prevents dimerization. I picked NBOH over NBOMe because the NBOHs have a shorter duration and less unwanted bodyload. Perhaps the duration might even become lower than bk-2c-x, which is a bit long for some people. And if you want it to fit on a blotter... bk-2c-p-nbome might.... or bk-2c-tfm-nbome.

I think the drawing is correct because:
a) a benzyl is this -

b) all other NBxx drawings I've ever seen have the carbon there.

Shit sorry, you are right, for some reason I always thought it was just a bond from the nitrogen to the ring. I was also a bit high I guess, in any case. Sorry, once again im calling out people and being wrong like an asshole.

 

[black53]

Haha, no problem man, everyone makes mistakes. Just look at my naming of the flys on the previous page :D

 

[ebola?]

What about bk-2c-x-nboh? Again, no dimerization, probably a dose between 10-20 mg, ...:

We have no basis to expect this: the world of n-benzyl-phenethylamine SAR is topsy turvy, with surprises at every turn. We don't even have firm evidence predicting an increase vs. a decrease in potency from the parent bk-2Cx. Still, this compound seems like it's worth a try...the activity of bk-2cb is encouraging in this respect.

For the bk-nbome, I think if the dose is lowered by that, it kind of defeats the purpose of NBOMes/NBOHs, one of the big appeals is that they are somewhat similar to LSD, and even come on blotter paper. The low dose also means that it can be mass produced very easily, meaning that they have that trademark NBOx inexpensiveness. If people are looking for a more expensive higher dose psychedelic, generally they would choose the 2Cx series or DOx. Regardless, it may serve as another legal replacement if NBOHs get scheduled.

Eh...It's uncharted territory, and it might be qualitatively superior to or at least distinct from the 25x-n-benzyl-phens. Dosage from 10 to 100 mg is way more wieldy for most end users. I also disagree with you about the "purpose" of the nbomes...they are what we make of them, and I find the primary attraction simply that they are qualitatively distinct from other compounds.

ebola

 

[black53]

We have no basis to expect this: the world of n-benzyl-phenethylamine SAR is topsy turvy, with surprises at every turn. We don't even have firm evidence predicting an increase vs. a decrease in potency from the parent bk-2Cx. Still, this compound seems like it's worth a try...the activity of bk-2cb is encouraging in this respect.

You're right, the bk might change the effect on potency a NBOH modification would have on bk-2c-b. But since they are putting this (ok NBOMe, but still) on everything to see what happens, I'd say bk-2c-b would be a good candidate. And since NBOHs usually don't last as long as NBOMes and have less side effects, I'd pick bk-2c-b-nboh over bk-2c-b-nbome if I was testing new compounds.


I guess a 10-20mg dose and a little shorter duration is the best case result.

 

[DL-ark]

This is an ester of GABA and Propofol that should make a pretty powerful sedative.

 

[Transform]

That is a cool suggestion! I would not expect it to be stable in that orientation though, I would bond the other end of gaba to give their carbamate.

On second thoughts it looks like you have just added an extra carboxyl group, I would stick with the regular ester.

 

[DL-ark]

That is a cool suggestion! I would not expect it to be stable in that orientation though, I would bond the other end of gaba to give their carbamate.

On second thoughts it looks like you have just added an extra carboxyl group, I would stick with the regular ester.

Woops, I was playing around on where I wanted the oxygen for the ester and I guess I forgot to remove the other one. I agree, stick with the regular ester.

I made a revised version, with the gaba reversed to make it a carbamate, as to your suggestion.

 

[blueberries]

A friend came up with this:

So I decided to tinker with it a bit and came up with these two. Firstly I figured a TFM bond would increase potency but eliminating one to give it a broken ring capability:

Then I figured a propylcyclohexane ring would be better for potency and include that broken ring capability:

EDIT: Bugger, seems I didn't take adder's advice on the last page to heart with the 'no extra benzene bits'! disregard the last compound.

Also looking at a 2C-B/4-MAR analogue, I came up with this:

 

[DL-ark]

I made some alpha carboxylic acid analogues of MDA, MDPEA, and DMT. Hopefully aromatic amino acid decarboxylase breaks off the carboxyls. MDPEA is not a drug which has been used as it too closely resembles dopamine and is broken down in first pass metabolism. the carboxy MDA probably isn't too stable and one could end up with MDPEA or just some other inactive compound like phenyl propanoic acid. none of these should be taken with MDMA or any serotonin releaser as depletion of monoamines will make AADC more active, from what I understand.


I'd also bet if they do work, they would be pretty neurotoxic, as they would inhibit AADC from making serotonin from 5-htp and from making dopamine from levodopa. Talk about depletion! After the drug wears off ofcourse one could take their supplements and they would work as normal, in addition one would probably have a small excess of precursor amino acids which would be quickly metabolized into neurotransmitters by the recently upregulated AADC enzymes.


So, four possibilities based on my speculation:
1. Ultra hangover with depression and all the works from an entactogen hangover.
2. Strong normal empathogenic effects followed by milder effects (depletion). Quick recovery from hangover as there is excess precursor amino acids and AADC is upregulated.
3. mild comeup (inhibition of AADC -> less serotonin/dopamine to begin with) as all of the drug is metabolized, AADC is upregulated and there is excess 5-htp and ldopa. These are metabolized to the now much needed dopamine/serotonin. excess + upregulation = more serotonin = longer lasting release. normal hangover (maybe quicker recovery because of upregulation?)
4. No activity at all...

Of course non of this applies to the dmt version.

this is all speculative, im not even sure if enzyme upregulation is a thing.

 

[black53]

anyone else think it would be great?