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Opioids I have a scientific theory on the function of opiates.

Bomb319

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Messages
583
Location
Kelowna, B.C.
I'm curious to know what you guys think. Obviously the endorphins we naturally produce are used as painkillers, but I suspect there are a whole bunch of other useful evolutionary factors.

As you all know, opiate withdrawal is quite terrible and has a number of specific symptoms. In turn, this means that opiates must act ina completely opposite symptom list than withdrawal and indeed that is what we see. For example, whilst high, you will not yawn or sneeze, shit etc. Basic pharmacology.

I was thinking that it would be kind of strange for endorphins to control tawns and sneezes - why? Seemingly unrelated to pain. But once I listed all the symptoms of withdrawal and looked for this pattern, it became very clear to me and I have never seen it mentioned before. What can all these symptoms possibly have in common such that one molecule has evolved to ensure that these functions are stopped while in pain?

movement.

Imagine being in the wild as an early human or animal. If you receive a potentially life-threatening wound which of course always happens, then nature would select for making sure an injury is felt as pain is necessary, but not worsened. Picture a man with a gaping wound in his chest, but not any organs. Now think of withdrawal symptoms. This is what I come up with:

What most w/d symptoms have in common is rapid and potentially damaging involuntary body movements for those inflicted with a serious wound. So to reiterate, the RELEASE OF NATURAL OPIATES stops involuntary body movements thereby promoting healing and helping prevent making the wound worse or loss of blood.

Yawning - involuntary, would worsen a chest wound.
Sneezing - this one is the most obvious, of course rocking your body with all that pressure causes much muscle flexion and movement.
Watery eyes - A deer running from a wolf after being injured would be more likely to survive if it's eyes were dry and vision clear, right? Opiates stop tears.
Sex - an orgasm is another strong involuntary bodily movement. Why else would endorphins make it such that it's much harder to cum?
Sweating - again, opiates keep the body dry and ready. Sweat pouring into one's face and eyes would make it an easier target for death.
Coughing - yup, another major - probably the biggest - effect of opiates is to reduce coughing. A srong cough would easily damage wounds and tissue further. One who has endorphins will not cough and therefore not exacerbate injury.
RLS - again, fairly self-explanatory. Keep muscles ready, but not overactive. Involuntary movements as well as voluntary.

It goes on with other symptoms too, but these basic and well-known effects all serve to regulate the parasympathetic (rest and digest) nervous system. Those who move less heal quicker and survive, those who have less or none may sneeze or kick and die from further trauma or blood loss. It would likely take no time at all to produce these traits in a wild population as they are so important for survival.

Thoughts?
 
Sorry but I don't think much of what you said makes sense. The reason you go into withdrawal is because when any drug is taken enough It eventually rewires your brain into thinking that is the norm. I don't fully understand your analogy about being in the wild. I'm sure if you had a serious chest wound there would be a possibility of crying from the pain. Coughing and maybe sneezing from hayfever? What if it was 40 degrees outside are you saying you wouldn't sweat? I still yawn when high if I'm tired. I will still sneeze if something irritates me. And do on... Sorry to me your just not making much sense. I think you are making it a lot more complicated than it really is. But hey I'm no brainiac there are a lot more intellegent people on here, I'd be interested in what they had to say.
 
i see what you're getting at Bomb. it ties well into the idea that drugs are not ACTUALLY what are getting us high, they are merely the catalyst to a host of chemical responses already firmly rooted into our biological processes. so i guess yours is as valid a theory as any as to why endorphins exist in the first place. obviously they evolved out of some sort of biological necessity, and as the greatest biological necessity of all is survival, i think you may be onto something. im interested to hear what minds greater than ours have to say on the subject, as im just a junkie with 3/4's of a degree in sociology and a general thirst for knowledge. and heroin.
 
There is a scientific explanation to everything that happens during opioid withdrawal, unfortunately there's not a single scientific explanation to what you've written. Study up!

This is more suitable as a poem.
 
It's just a theory, it doesn't have to be something that has been proven already. Not sure how easy it is to prove something is the result of an evolutionary syrvival advantage anyway. I think it's a very interesting theory. It IS true that opioid withdrawal symptoms are generally inverse to the effects of opioids (often in a very exagerrated form, because someone dependent on opioids has become tolerant to many of their effects and requires opioids to function normally). Just because opioids don't completely suppress things like yawning or sneezing doesn't mean they don't at all. I actually think this is a good theory about the roles of endogenous opioids in the body and am going to give it some further thought. It's a little oversimplified but the only one I don't really agree with so far is the sex/orgasm thing as I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Will elaborate later.
 
I dunno bout everyone else but opiates make me sweat profusely. Especially while physically exerting myself, like at work. I cough when my throat is scratchy and yawn alotttt while taking opiates .
 
This is turning into a really interesting thread. I'm excited to hear some more opinions.
 
I get what you are saying Bomb,
He's not saying that this is fact, its just a theory on what he thinks may be happening when our bodies release natural endorphins. It's always a good thing to think about why certain things work in the way that they do. I don't think we should criticize one for trying to work out their brain.
Bomb,
One thing I want to start out by saying is that endorphins are usually released as a reward in humans, like when we work out, when we smile, or eat chocolate... These are the times that we get the highest concentration of endorphins released, I don't think that endorphins are released much if all when one is wounded, In that way I don't think that our bodies use endorphins as a pain blocker. As a reward they are used that way, but as far as I know not in a trauma crisis. (correct me if I'm wrong.)
Why don't you look online to see if any of these natural pain responses are linked to actually using them for suppression of coughing, sneezing etc. Honestly I don't think that our natural endorphins do this to us, you see, when we take opiates we are creating a whole new idea of homeostasis in our brains chemistry, (a whole new idea of what is normal) and because we do this, we have certain side effects. Natural endorphins are nowhere near a strong as heroin or any other opiates, thus they don't create the same results when our brains release them for whatever reason. So while I think that you may have made a good connection here, I think that there are more complex variables that play into how we react to withdrawl and how we react to a release of endorphines or opiates. Keep it up! I think that it is always healthy to look for reasons as to why we are the way we are. Also, I don't think that it is very productive to criticize ones ideas or theories, he isn't saying that this is fact, he wants to know what you think about what he said, not for you to be critical and bash everything. Instead, say what you think is wrong with his theory and maybe together you can come up with something amazing. That can happen when you work together. We always say that two brains is better than one!

Tell me what you think after you read this. I think if you are motivated enough to figure this out, repost again after you research it a bit and maybe you will learn something :)
 
^i've heard of people who are dying or near death start to feel numb and that their pain goes away? isn't that a good explanation of what may happen when someone gets wounded? what else would stop that pain? other than something in the body that is flicked off like a switch when the body goes into shock or something. I have no first hand knowledge on this so it could be bullshit but similarly, people cut themselves for that rush of endorphins or even cry for the same reason.
 
8)Robot, You are right, there are endorphins released when you cut yourself. Also when you are injured. ( I got curious after I made this post & did a bit of my own research ) I have discovered that we do indeed release endorphins upon injury, so as to help with the pain, but i wonder if the only function is to help with pain, or is it also as Bomb theorizes to help with other things like to stop coughing or sneezing or other potentially harmful actions. The only thing I have a problem with is why orgasm would be impaired. When we are injured it is still possible to have an orgasm, but it is a lot harder to do so when under the influence of an (exo) opiate. Like I said these "side effects" are more amplified when using opiates, and endorphins aren't going to nessrlly be as strong as to create the same effects, but I think they do to some extent. Do you think that the release of adrenaline has to do with pain management? Is there something that has to do with noseception when someone encounters a critical trauma? Does adrenaline play a part? Or is it only endorphin related? I really think that there are many variables that play into how we naturally manage pain upon injury. I don't quite understand how these side effects play a part ( to a lesser degree ) with trauma. I should do some more searching for a better answer. I still have a lot of questions, because lots of things happen in our body when we are injured.
variables variables variables - when you got a lot of them, things always get more complicated! :)
 
I understand his theory also. It is true that pain releases endorphins that bind to opioid receptors. And much of the same reactions occur because of it. That's why "cutters" cut themselves, the pain Is not nesecarilly enjoyable but rather the rush if endorphins. However there is a limit of these endorphins a body can release, has any one here had kidney stones before? The pain I felt from the kidney stones was so immense that no amount of endorphins would cut through the pain at all. After several minutes of vomiting in pain, I litteraly passed out on the way to the hospital, mind you this was before I found opiates so my body wasn't damaged from years of abuse. Guess you could say the Demerol and phenigran iv they gave me started me on my journey. Then knee surgery three months later and five horrible cases of staph infection later was truly the beginning of the end. But to show how this theory may actually be flawed, a while in such intense pain one looses all control of their body especially once one passes out. Crying and sweating in pain everyone can pretty well relate. Sweating no matter how cold you are is unregulated as well as crying and rls more like restless body syndrome.
 
^ very good point, which isn't to say that perhaps the endorphins released keep us from getting to this critical pain threshold much much sooner? or be the mechanism that separates "oh wow this really hurts" from "holy shit my body needs help NOW or i'm going to die".
 
i don't really understand this thread as there is already a correct actual scientific theory on opiate withdrawal?
 
i don't really understand this thread as there is already a correct actual scientific theory on opiate withdrawal?

but no theory is absolute, new theory's are formed, ideas tested and evidence compared. If the evidence fits and is consistent the theory stands if not new ideas are needed. New theory's should be encouraged its how we progress our knowledge of things.
 
but no theory is absolute, new theory's are formed, ideas tested and evidence compared. If the evidence fits and is consistent the theory stands if not new ideas are needed. New theory's should be encouraged its how we progress our knowledge of things.

but this is not a scientific theory, unless i've missed something and the OP is a pharmacologist/neurologist and carrying out actual tests.
 
As far as I know, when injured or infected your body releases chemical messengers into your blood called cytokines. One is called TNF-alpha, and I think there are at least 18 Interleukins(IL-1 through IL-18 ). These activate your immune system. Some go to your brain where they trigger off what is called "sickness behavior", which is what causes you to be tired, lethargic, and cognitively slow(all energy conserving) when sick. It is called sickness behavior because it was observed in animals(they cannot tell you when they are sick) and some bright scientist noticed the similarity with human behavior when sick. So it was discovered that this was not just learned behavior on the part of humans.

I've read that opiates are referred to as immuno-suppressive. This can present problems when recovering from surgeries, etc.. I do not know if immuno-suppressive means only one thing, because your immune system is very complex. I also recall reading that heroin suppresses TNF-alpha.

If you google "low dose naltrexone" (note: not ULTRA low dose naltrexone) you will see a theory that posits that a blockade of natural endorphins by naltexone will result in your body producing more natural endorphins, and this somehow improves immune function. Although there are some studies to back this up, it is far from accepted by the medical establishment.

I hope this gives you a starting point to further study if your theory has validity.
 
i'm not really sure as to what you're getting at here - that opiates produce endorphins or..? whats the basic outline - because i find it hard to follow your original post.

also:

For example, whilst high, you will not yawn or sneeze, shit etc. Basic pharmacology

umm... i've yawned and shit whilst i was high on opiates. i don't think that is basic pharmacology.
 
Opiates and endorphins supress violent and involuntary bodily motions to aid in survival when critically injured. Simple as that.
 
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