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i dont see whats so profound about psychedelics...

The most 'mystical' psychedelic for me is 5-MeO-DMT. The last time I used it was in 2003...but I still remember the lessons it taught me and think of it every day.

So yes, after several years the lessons are still there and I still benefit from the experience.

phan said:
But what about when the drugs have left your system, and, days later, the ideas that were brought up still make tons of sense? Is it still just a trick?
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athousandormore said:
I just heard heard that research scientists have isolated what appears to be a gene that predisposes some people toward mystical experiences. It seems strange, but maybe it's a karmic thing? If you believe in reincarnation, maybe some people are incarnated into more spiritually developed entities, capable of moving up the ladder in this lifetime... while others have more work to do in that area.

Just a thought.
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I like the idea- it reflects a sentiment I've heard bandied around by some of the crazies- like McKenna god bless him- where mushrooms, being saphrophylic (eating dead stuff), at the bottom of the food chain, and completely karma free (they don't have to kill or hurt to live)....so we're all destined to be mushrooms.
 
Long rable alert...

wesmdow said:
...im saying that i dont believe its possible for a chemical to just GIVE you enlightenment.

how could it be that easy?

and yes, people have been using psychs for thousands of years. that doesnt really prove anything.

enlightenment, nirvana, and such ARE real. it seems almost like cheating to think you could just eat a drug and BAM, be enlightened. that seems insulting to those whove devoted their lives to 'the path' and really acheiving inner peace, at least to me...
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thoughtsUnThought said:
what many overlook....or foget, is that the entirity of enlightenment is contained within us all. at least this is what those crazy buddhists claim... the act of 'becoming enlightened' as the transformation that siddhartha among other have experienced is NOT a gaining of something which they did not have. Enlightenment is a realization. Enlightenment is The realization of realizat-ability...
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The enlightenment that can be attained is worthless in the face of the already so. Still, we deny the obvious and make the way hard. The wise, knowing this, will be more than happy to sell you water right next to the river you are pretending is not there.

All the world is but mind being experienced by mind.
All mind is but the world being experienced by the world.
These lines are a needless repetition of the shockingly obvious.
A tiny pimple on your original face.

The cursor blinks, the keys clack... who is not already enlightened?

Whether sober or drunk, tripping or baseline, awake or dreaming, what is the nature of the witness that is effortlessly aware of the arising? Take this question more seriously than even grim death. Pursue it with great and unfailing effort. When that effort fails, what is left that has always been so?

Another answer... maybe?

From the absolute there is no thing to cause another thing to become enlightened... it is all semantically induced dishonesty.

From the relative perspective the small self is not ever aware of having had existence prior to birth (it didn't) and so thinks it must grasp something to perpetuate itself forever. This is silly. Still it seeks out ways to enlarge itself. Some of those ways may just temporarily diffuse or table it. When the small self drops, the absolute is seen to be ever-present. The small self wants to 'have' this as an 'experience' and nail it on the wall like some sort of trophy. Look at me aren't I great I achieved such and such aren't I cool? No one has ever had this happen before...

From the non-dual even the small self's not finding of the absolute truth is itself the same absolute truth. The small self is looking for the same truth that is already peering out the eyes in the search. No delusion, no enlightenment, just this... when just this is present, every sip of ordinary tap water is a + + + +

Do not understand any of these things too quickly.
First become fully rational and completely skeptical of them.
Then become convinced that they are just relative experiences without any universal truth to them.
The approach them as open space and let them unfold.
When you can watch these things arise in the spaciousness of your own awareness...
Well I won't spoil the surprise...

I B

All of the above is just the two pence of a sleep deprived lurker who has to go back to other things IRL... but since I am tossing in my two I will go for three and suggest any of the works by Ken Wilber, the koan Mu, and the Big Mind process; being that as far as I am aware all are legal in most countries.
 
There has to be a soul before it can be enlightened.

The chemicals just mess with the electrical reactions in your brain, much like the measured brainwave reactions when someone has a purported "near-death" or "alien abduction" experience. It's specific brain patterns that people perceive in a way filtered by social expectations.

Psychs can allow you to explore your own thought processes and preconceived notions, and that's plenty for me. I don't need to mix it up with a bunch of stories about fairies, gods, and "spirits."
 
Yeah I think it depends what you are looking for, to me it's just a laugh your ass of and see great trippy shit kind of experience.

TBH I sort of feel that I have drugs to have fun, not compensate for anything I lack be that emotional, spiritually or physically.
 
I'm kinda on the fence about this one. I've had several profound spiritual experiences on psychdelics. And most of them seemed like bullshit the next day. Which doesn't mean they weren't really cool at the time, but I long realized it wasn't answers I sought, but merely and end to the questions. Which is a pretty profound realization, come to think of it.
 
^LOL, my trips kinda began the questioning or moreso put it into full throttle. Various sneak peaks under the carpet of liiiiiiiife have allowed me a perspective that I could definitely have gained other ways. Nothing is profound about psychedelics- everything is profound about the effects they have in man. Profound- pro found. What does it mean anyway? See psychedelics help you find the true meaning in words as profound as profound
 
willow11 said:
See psychedelics help you find the true meaning in words as profound as profound
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Well said :)

They also make you realize that profoundity is infinite. There is always another beyond beyond beyond
 
wesmdow said:
ok, ive waited a while to make this thread.

ive tried most of the common psychedelics: lsd, shrooms, dxm (i KNOW.. not technically a psych...), mdma, mda, and experienced amphetamine psychosis twice.

now, except for the 3 times i ate bad mushrooms and had an awful time, ive loved every trip.

...however, i dont see whats so profound or spiritual about these drugs. im of the opinion that true enlightenment cant possibly be attained through the use/abuse of chemicals... it just doesnt make sense that it could be that easy.

every trip ive had has been wonderful, opened my mind to new thoughts, and shed a new light on the world around me.

still tho, i hear people talking of achieving nirvana, or having spiritual epiphanies on mushrooms or acid, and it just sounds ridiculous. its a freakin drug. the effects are just another high; and while that does not diminish the value or significance of psychedelics, i still dont think its possible, or even reasonable to believe that one can ACTUALLY commune with god or a higher being or w/e through the use of a chemical of any sort.

dont get me wrong, im not dissing psychedelics (in fact, im growing to love them more than any other class of drugs), i just think that weak minded people seem to fool themselves into believing that they have achieved something amazing just by eating a drug.

i just think its a great high.

what are yalls thoughts on this?
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THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIANCE

Personally, despite knowing how intensely mystical, and so utterly mesmorizing it all is, I still cant comprehend how truly life changing and astonishing the actaul reality is. Only when I return do I remember, and say to myself 'OH MY FUCKING GOD I FORGOT THIS?' It is beyond language words and expression, it simply cannot be described verbally or otherwise.

Its also surely a matter of how far your own mind is capabul of taking you. It could be that your own mind is weak, for after all the mind dosent manifest the chemical, the chemical manifests the mind. One with a highly vivid and wild imagination will undoubtedly see more, than one whos mind is dull and lifeless.

I do agree with you in part though. Many people utterly delude themselves, and start singing to their ayahuasca, and shit, banging on about the 'plants spirit' which always makes my eyes roll. There probably isnt much you can visibly acheive with psychedelics (though they are unforseeably fateful), and if you beleive so, you may end up chasing your tail and biting the bastard. They should be treated with great respect, but then not taken too seriously either.

In my opinion there is alot of spiritual nonsense written, but that for me dosent, make psychdelic experiances any less spiritual/mystical. I too have had deeply religious experiances (good and bad) on psychedelics, the most profound and horrendous being when I actually beleived myself to be God (a total psychotic freak out ending in eventual hospitilization-very long story!).

I'm not saying of course that I truly was God, simply that I lived the experiance of being him, rightly or wrongly. You can see/smell/feel/taste/touch God, and experiance the almighty feeling on psychedelics, I kid you not. Whether he is actually there or not is another matter.

At least religious psychedelic users are getting a damn sight closer to the true experiance than the catholic church is. The bibles nonsense dosent invalidate Gods existence, it just discredits it.



Inwards
 
Inappropriate said:
There has to be a soul before it can be enlightened.
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True nominally/verbally, but what would you say about this: "Enlightment is the realization of the absense of a soul (me, myself, ego)". And your predicted response ('what is it that realizes, then?') is just the right question to be asking ;).
The chemicals just mess with the electrical reactions in your brain, much like the measured brainwave reactions when someone has a purported "near-death" or "alien abduction" experience. It's specific brain patterns that people perceive in a way filtered by social expectations.

Psychs can allow you to explore your own thought processes and preconceived notions, and that's plenty for me. I don't need to mix it up with a bunch of stories about fairies, gods, and "spirits."
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The above I definitely agree with.

P.S. I wanted to add to this thread that there are inevitably people who DO use psychedelics as a "high," and also use the whole spirituality thing as a cover (i.e. claim it's mystical or whatever, while they're pretty obviously just using to get high). Seen it myself, many a time. For that reason, I'm always very skeptical myself... not to mention the fact that I agree they are really more tools to explore one's beliefs & thought processes (which to me is psychological, not 'spiritual').
 
For one, I feel very profound revelations on psychedelics, and amphetamines as well. I enjoy talking about philosophy and physics and science, and these drugs often induce new ways of thinking that can make the workings of the world very simple and real. I am an atheist, and the only sort of spirituality I believe in is very literal, and is just about your state of mind and relationships with people, places, things, chemicals, etc. Psychedelics expand your mind by letting you see new ways of thinking, and can greatly aid any sort of spiritual quest. I think it is foolish for anyone to think you can achieve any sort of nirvana just by ingesting chemicals, but the way you use the experiences of certain chemical states can bring you closer to a sort of "enlightenment." Many people, including myself to some extent, become much more logical, peaceful, and mature through their psychedelic experiences.
 
morninggloryseed said:
I know it is hard for you to imagine that a whole world exists outside of your personal experiences, but it does.
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Ooh. Now THAT would be an interesting conversation, albeit a philosophical one. Could a person TRULY comprehend that of which they have no understanding?
 
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