LGV9000 - thank you for your post. We have similar user names.
This is a long post, but if you want to know a bit more about my history, and why I value your suggestion [and ultimately make it my goal], but consider it unrealistic for me at the current time, here is my story:
For the record, I used opiates for my first time at the age of 25, in 2007. I used one Percocet. In 2009, I used opiates again, and I used them steadily [albeit only around 7x per year] through to 2016, with another two year period of no use in that time, between around this this time in 2012 through to around this time in 2014.
In the nine year period from 2007 through to 2016, I used an average of once every 49 days. So while I would agree with you that there may be "[no] such thing thing as a moderate addict", I did moderate opiates perfectly well for nine years. Only when everything fell apart for me on every front in life, not only being not whatsoever my fault, but being multiple examples of blatantly being harmed by other people, did I start abusing opiates.
Even if I went the rest of my life completely clean [or attempted to do so], I could still relapse, if multiple tragedies struck me at the same time. For instance, I have three small children. If all three of my children died at the same time in an automobile accident, for example, I would relapse.
It wouldn't matter if I stayed completely abstinent/ clean for the next five years - I would still most likely relapse in such an instant.
Therefore, I see no reason to use zero all of the time, and I actually think it is harmful to me.
I was addicted to opiates for two years straight. Now, without the use of daily methadone or daily Suboxone, I have managed to quit, in that I experience no physical withdrawals to use opiates - just mild cravings.
I was once at the convenience store, and spoke to the clerk about the vapes they were selling, as they were/are still relatively new at the time.
She said "I found it very hard to quit smoking cigarettes at first, but then I tried a different plan, and I haven't smoked for six months." I then asked her "Do you use a vape now?" And she said "Yes, I vape every day."
Haha, oh for crying out loud!
I don't consider it "quitting" to go from nicotine to nicotine! That is simply quitting smoking cigarettes - not quitting nicotine!
When I talk about quitting - I mean QUITTING. I don't mean going from full opiate agonist in pill form to full opioid agonist by way of methadone! I don't using a partial opiate agonist daily like Suboxone. I mean QUITTING.
So to be completely clear with you - I have quit to the point that I experience no physical withdrawals at all, but I guess I will be in the extended post-acute withdrawal phase, possibly for months or even a year or more, especially with Covid-19. It's a bit hard to be happy and optimistic when Canada [where I live] has just lost 20% of its economy. Canada's deficit this year is something like $328 billion - that is almost a billion dollars PER DAY in deficit spending!
And there are talks for the Covid-19 lock-downs to still continue. While I understand that people generally do not understand economics, I had NO IDEA the extent to which people literally had no clue. The current economic situation in Canada [and in my opinion, in the world] right now is completely unsustainable.
And that, more than anything else, is leaving me depressed, and making it hard to get over the post-acute withdrawal phase. Because in my best of days, things would be fine right now, but things are simply not great, and if current economic woes continue for another 18 months, it is guaranteed to impact my personal financial situation, thus compromising the lives of my three children. Granted, a lot can happen in the next 18 months...but I don't take anything for granted.
I'm not sure if you assumed I was a former pill opiate user who is now stable on methadone who wants to use pill opiate from time to time - as I said, I do NOT think that is "quitting".
Right now, I am literally using nothing, but some Kratom from time to time, and some lorazepam [Ativan] that I was actually prescribed, also only from time to time. For example, I keep a log of everything I use, and if you were to look at last Sunday, it might say something like "1mg Lorazepam + 6g Red Bali Kratom" or something to that effect. I feel there is no point in being dishonest with what you use - least of all to yourself! And as I said, I don't consider a person to have quit a full opiate agonist addiction when they are using a full opioid agonist like methadone, as my friend is, who is on 45mg of methadone daily.
I think the reality of how not addicted [physically] I am right now, and how addicted that particular friend of mine is, would be established if both of us were arrested [hypothetically - say, both cases of mistaken identity], and forced to stay in prison.
I, while being annoyed, would not be in any serious withdrawal. Whereas my friend would be crawling out of her skin.
If I was stable on 10mg of methadone daily [forgive me for assuming you assumed this], I wouldn't be thinking about using opiates. The reason why I intend to use, perhaps in a week, then two weeks after that, then two weeks again, then a month after that, then a month after that, is to gradually wean off opiates psychologically in the long run.
By the time I am at my second or third round with a month off between uses of oxycodone, I suspect I will have no problem going a year off.
I have also done many other things to ensure a relapse would not be easy - I have lost contact with all but the two most ethical contacts; one for opiate pills, and one for methadone. If I tell them that I will buy a year's supply [say 12x 40mg oxycodone pills, assuming using one of such pills per month for a year], and to not allow me to by anymore until the following year, they WOULD follow my rules.
Furthermore, since I am not physically addicted to opiates anymore, I won't be seeking them out in the time between my 1x monthly allowance [or whatever I decide on], and I refuse to connect anyone with opiates - I don't care what the reason. If that ever comes up, I will simply politely explain to anyone who asks that I was addicted for a two year period, and I refuse to seek out opiates for anyone, as I run the risk of getting them for myself.
From there, it would actually be a bit of a struggle to even acquire opiates - being able to acquire enough to use for the year, with a friend who already told me she would give me one per month out of that supply, and with a plan in place that if I ever use for five days in a row, I will take 30 days off by going to a remote property that I own, I have a lot of checks and balances in place to prevent from becoming full-out addicted again.
Again, if things go badly for me [multiple deaths in the family at the same time], I may well relapse anyway. I don't believe that full abstinence will prevent that. Also, since I am not using methadone or Suboxone, I think slowly getting to the once a month level before considering a full year off, or potential lifetime abstinence is more realistic for me than to do that right now. As it is now, I used 1x 18mg hydromorphone pill in August and 2x 18mg hydromorphone pill in September - and the only reason I used 2x 18mg in September was because I had a temporary falling out with the person who I acquired the second 18mg pill for [I'm not complaining, lol!].
Opiates are also the only substance suitable for my brain chemistry. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I can't smoke marijuana because of extreme paranoia. MDMA is not by thing, psilocybin mushrooms are DEFINITELY not my thing, CARBOHYDRATES are not by thing - NOTHING is my thing. Sex isn't my thing for crying out loud. Benzodiazepines help me to sleep, but Jordan Peterson said that they increase the odds of getting dementia, and it seems like withdrawal from benzos are a complete nightmare. So I really want nothing to do with that. CBD has worked a little for me, but it is pretty mild.
So opiates are really the ONLY thing that have ever worked for me, so it's either do that, or do NOTHING, EVER, LITERALLY.
And hey - I may ultimately end up doing that. I'm not saying full out abstinence for life is a bad thing. I AM ok with that - I just don't think that model is sustainable for me. But time will tell.
As of now, since I have not used methadone or Suboxone to get to this point, and have more or less been at a low level of opiates since March of 2019 [basically, four Percocets per day or less, down to where I'm at now], I am in a pretty good spot.
I just don't see myself going six months without using opiates without being depressed, whereas when I now use once a month, that experience is starting to resemble the experiences I had with opiates from 2007 through to 2016, when I used on average once per 49 days - they really brighten my day and make me realize how happy it's possible to feel, and actually make me set goals in the meantime, knowing that day to use again will be coming in another seven weeks. It was actually only when I started using opiates in moderation that the period of greatest motivation in my adult life happened.
Again, that was using at the rate specified in the previous paragraph, for nearly a full decade.
Would I like to follow your suggestion of never using ever again? Sure, I would. But without methadone or Suboxone to help me, that is not easy.
This wouldn't even be a question if I was on 10mg of methadone a day.
I honestly feel that if ONLY I had access to a sauna at this point, I would be back to feeling like myself. Again, it is depression from the political response to Covid-19 that is causing me to be in the state that I am, rather than any problems caused by the virus itself [just like everyone else, I don't know anyone who knows anyone who had Covid-19, and I'm not afraid of a virus where the average person who dies is older than the current human lifespan, but I digress].
But the reaction to Covid-19 and Canada's growing deficit is absolutely making staying off opiates harder for me, because I just spent the past 19 months reducing to the point I am at now, and I have been in self-isolation since November 18th following some of the rules you stated [such as not seeing the people who use regularly].
I am now feeling vibrant and fresh and ready to go - and I am still young enough to recover quite well on the other side of this - yet...here we are with Covid-19 pandemic rules in place where I live in Canada [Ontario] that may pose a threat to gyms staying open, which will make things for me horrible, because going back to the gym was the best thing possible for me [I'm a lightweight competitive strongman - which is another reason why I can't use many or any other substances - because they are almost all more toxic than opiates are, on the tissues of our body].
To be completely clear - if I feel I can go completely abstinent, I would be willing to give that a try. I have no problem with that model. I just think it is unrealistic for me. Again, if I was on 10mg of methadone daily [likely even 5mg] or 0.5mg of Suboxone daily, this would not even be a question. But the fact of the matter is, I am trying my best to stay clean while relying on no such subtance, and it has not been easy.
My plan for now is to get to the opiate once a month level for a few months, stop using the Kratom and lorazepam [both "as needed" at the current time - not daily], and finally stop for a full year, or stop forever, possibly. Or...if I find I am managing the once a month usage without any serious cravings, and if I am confident that I have a system in place where I make it impossible to find, by acquiring a year's supply, cutting ties with my two remaining contacts, and staying out of that circle, then I may just continue using once per month.
Sadly, as said above, I think if life goes badly for me [dealing with a death of one or more of my children, or another tragedy], I will probably relapse whether or not I remain abstinent from this point on. So as long as I put the other measures in place [such as acquire 12x opiate pills for 1x monthly use, and give them to a trusted friend to hold and give to me, but ONLY at that rate, no exceptions], I think I should be ok.
To be completely clear - my goal is lifetime abstinence. I am just finding it easier to use, then put as much space as possible in between my next date of using, and continue to add space, hopefully until I get to the point of either complete abstinence [as you recommend], or to the point where I'm not even thinking about it, and not concerned.
I dread to think that everything bad in my life could converge on me at the same time again...but I will have many checks and balances in place to deal with that, should that happen. For example, all of my paychecks go directly to my mother's bank account from now on, and she barely allows me $10 a month to spend, lol! I'm joking, but only slightly - she is really not allowing me very much of my money at all, and I put that measure [which seems extreme] in place so that I would not - literally, COULD NOT - spend my money on a relapse.
It is unrealistic for me to abstain further than I currently do. I could make it a point to try it, don't get me wrong...but I know it would just put me into a pit of depression until I finally cave and use. I already have tried that, and that's what happens. Again, with methadone or Suboxone, it would be a different story. But to quit completely as I have, is really not the same thing as using either of those substances to mask withdrawal.
