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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Harm Reduction How to reduce the neurotoxicity of the methamphetamine ?

I think the neurotoxicity thing is often a bit overstated. You gotta go HARD to incur long-term physiological damage as a result of methamphetamine usage, and even then if you abstain from use for a protracted period of time you can probably return to where you were before things went to shit with your brain, more or less. People who use at that level don’t like to quit for the length of time for their feel-good chemicals to return to baseline (which can take years depending on the severity of the habit)
Overstated, it's an outright fabrication based on extrapolation from shitty animal models.

There is zero evidence of neurotoxicity of MDMA or MDA at recreational doses. There is zero evidence in humans.

Now there are studies that had a cumulative subcutaneous dose of 160 mg per kilogram over 4 days that resulted in 5-HT, axonal and neuronal damage.

Considering that equates to two to three grams for a human, maybe a little bit more, I think you'd agree that using studies like that to support claims of neurotoxicity is ridiculous.

People asserting things have to prove it. The only thing they got is FMRIs that show a lowered sert binding affinity and or lower sert densities.

These are phenomena that occur during long-term SSRI treatment for depression. As MDMA is also a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Among other things, it's easy to see why such a sequelae would occur.

When it happens from SSRI treatment, it's good.

When it's associated with MDMA use, it's neurotoxicity.

Give me a fucking break.

And as far as methamphetamine, it's interesting that the methamphetamine researchers are a little bit more trustworthy because they explicitly identify the molar concentrations or the doses that don't result in any changes that could result in neurotoxicity.

Normal recreational doses of methamphetamine do not cause neurotoxicity.

Binging on half a gram a day or more. Obviously may cause you issues.
 
"When using a regimen that involves gradual increases in METH administration to rats to mimic progressively larger doses of the drug used by some human abusers of METH, METH preconditioning protects against DA depletion caused by binge METH challenge in the brain"


So apparently stepping up your dosage actually prevents signs of neurotoxicity from binging.

Not to mention that human brains and rat brains clean themselves out differently.
 
I couldn't tell you anything specific, as this is a highly specialized, medical, pharmacological issue that I don't believe is fully understood by anyone yet at this point. The best and most realistic thing that someone can do is do their best to maintain a healthy body while using Methamphetamine as we would otherwise. This means drinking enough fluids.

Hydration is the cornerstone for a large selection of the negative symptoms discussed regarding both acute and chronic usage. "Meth Mouth", for instance, is believed to mostly be the result of a chronically dry mouth (with other factors exacerbating). Hydrating properly while using Amphetamines is difficult for many reasons. When you're intoxicated with stimulants, your body is generally not gonna send you the same signals telling you you're hungry, thirsty or tired. You have to figure that out for yourself. In general, you're very, very unlikely to drink TOO MUCH water, so I tell people to just go crazy and drink as much as they can. If you're really on a high(ish) dosage of an Amphetamine or other stimulant, 2 8oz glasses of water per hour are required to stay okay (in my experience).

Nutrition is going to be equally as important, but this is more chronic whereas the hydration has immediate effects that are easily detectable by the individual. The body needs what it needs to do what it does. You need the right building blocks in you to put together the dopamine and other neurotransmitters required to replenish what you've spent using the stimulants. Just like hydration, sometimes you have to force yourself to eat, but do it. If nothing else, I find Peanut Butter & Whole Milk to be the gold standard, if you will, for quick and fairly complete nourishment. This combination doesn't cover everything, but it's a great ballast against malnutrition. Just take a big ol' glob and wash it down with some milke, rinse and repeat and you can pretty easily put away 1,000-2,000 calories in a relatively short period of time.

I'm not the resident Methamphetamine expert here. I've used them plenty and can make some commentary, but there are others on here who know more than I for sure.

The key, as I see it, for using Amphetamines chronically, is being smart enough to fight against the feeling that you don't need things like sleep, food or water. Whereas normally we have a HUD in our bodies that tell us when it's time to do all of these things. Amphetamines get rid of this. You need to internalize that there is no way in this life to get by without proper nutrition, hydration and sleep. There is no way to live normally without being able to also do these things.

Case in point, giving the body what it needs will allow you to rebuild neurotransmitters and everything else for that matter. I feel this is a "stick to the basics" situation. A lot of people want to know how to not lose their shit using Meth, when they know the answer is right in front of them. They aren't superhuman, they're paying for everything they're getting just like a bank balance. It needs to be replenished.
 
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