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how to potentiate tianeptine

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asecin said:
ok my tianeptine finished :( on the last day i took 20 pills total for the night and i had 5 hour crazy trip lol was great. it sucks that you need so many pills tho, since they cost a lot and are hard to get. ends too fast and then you feel damn depressed. arent there any other serotonin releasing antidepressants out there goddamn.
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If I recall Stahl (a major psychopharmacologist for the FDA) was concerned about heart valve changes resulting from 5HT releasers. As for the serotonin reuptake enhancer bit, I argue that it's more due to a marketing ploy than anything else. I mean getting the public sold on one neurotransmitter system was hard enough but trying to explain the complex interplay of the glutamate system (particularly AMPA) is going to be hard to market.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=3152D54697D98825737A64048197804E.d04t03
 
sekio, you keep seeing antidepressants as anti euphoric for some reason. what do you consider an antidepressant ? i think an antidepressant should be exactly that, euphoric agent to make depressed people smile and enjoy life. what you see as proper antidepressant is actually mood stabilizing agent. its different. mood stabilizing agents should be for seriously deranged individuals and antidepressants for depressed people who i assume do not have, if not one or more, potent neurochemistry for various reasons. like in my case when i abused the shit out of mdma, all the neuro activity in my brain was lowered trying to balance and it caused serious depression for months. i think it shows depressed people just have lower activity in certain areas in the brain. different for schizos who have over-activity in perhaps the same areas.


ebola?, they created the damn chemical and they dont know how it works ? so what did they do, gather random chemicals in a lab, did various experimental basic chemistry reactions and created it and then tested it on people and thought hey, it has antidepressant quality, MARKET IT. i mean, i seriously cant find the exact history of it and wiki is not helping. one would assume if a company is responsible for something being sold with its brand name to millions of people they would have SOME IDEA how it works, no ? it really depresses me how behind scientists are in reality. its more of a gimmick than anything. how can you expect to develop new good quality antidepressants if everyone in the lab just monkeys around lol most likely long after we are all gone that they manage to create something good is my assumption.
 
Epsilon Alpha said:
If I recall Stahl (a major psychopharmacologist for the FDA) was concerned about heart valve changes resulting from 5HT releasers. As for the serotonin reuptake enhancer bit, I argue that it's more due to a marketing ploy than anything else. I mean getting the public sold on one neurotransmitter system was hard enough but trying to explain the complex interplay of the glutamate system (particularly AMPA) is going to be hard to market.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=3152D54697D98825737A64048197804E.d04t03
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from what i know, its a specific subtype of 5HT that causes heart valve problems. one i can confirm for sure it can cause such problem is mdma since i experimented with it for a while and i developed some heart related complains. not sure what else out there works the same way tho. someone was concerned over plain 5HTP and trypthophan causing this but it seems you will need huge doses and it still has different mechanism and most likely wont affect your heart. cant really think of any other specific drugs which might be of concerned when it comes to 5HT and heart problems....
 
what do you consider an antidepressant ?
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All I'm saying is that drugs with immediate mood elevating effects generally are not sustainable as such in the long run. It's my opinion that daily MDMA usage is outright untenable, for instance... if the tolerance does not get you the side-effects will. Same goes for the use of opioids, serotonergics, GHB etc. - although they do produce mood elevating effects, after abusing euphoriants for 2-3 years you won't feel any better.

ebola?, they created the damn chemical and they dont know how it works ? so what did they do, gather random chemicals in a lab, did various experimental basic chemistry reactions and created it and then tested it on people and thought hey, it has antidepressant quality, MARKET IT.
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More or less. This is how drug development worked ina bygone era. Probably tested it on animals first though. See e.g. the development of Thorazine.

it really depresses me how behind scientists are in reality. its more of a gimmick than anything.
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No offense, do you have a better option? Do you think these guys go to work in the morning thinking "gee another opportunity to fuck around and waste everyone's time"? It's not a comic book, dude, we can't just make ubermensch drugs on demand. Besides, it's not like tianeptine is the bleeding edge of drug design....
 
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No, it was more like a cool idea that doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. Why it was never pursued, I dunno. Probably patents.

I'd suspect that long acting partial agonist opioids a la buprenorphine would probably make decent antidepressants. years and years of it have caused no negative adverse effects in me, personally. It provides it's mood lift reliably and effectively, and hasn't left me desiring anything else. I wish my dose was 8mg per day instead of 2mg, but i'll take what i can get.
 
sekio, so you would say SSRIs is the best for depression currently and any of the other "euphorants" are not sustainable long term compared to the SSRIs ?

personally, SSRIs have been a complete failure for me. more side effects than positive effects long term. short term, no effects at all. very reliable...
 
so you would say (1) SSRIs is the best for depression currently and (2) any of the other "euphorants" are not sustainable long term compared to the SSRIs ?
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1 - nope. That's pretty clearly a falsehood. SSRIs work best in severe depression (& in some anxiety disorders) but are a poor choice for other types of depression.
2 - Try taking amphetamine or MDMA every day for a few months and tell me how long the mood elevating effect remains for (hint: not as long as you'd expect)

I'm pretty biased towards lifestyle enrichment as a depression treatment though. What I do know is everyone is different and to handle "strange" cases sometimes you have to do the brute-force method of trying various families of AD's until you find one that works, be it a tricyclic, MAOI, or what have you.

See also: semiregular or regular ketamine/NMDA antagonist therapy. I hear it is pretty reliable as a fast-acting AD.
 
There are many different subtypes of depression, which explains why SSRI's only work for some, are useless for others and are outright dangerous for others.

I view SSRI's as mild emotion-blunting drugs. If your subtype of depression involves fatigue, overeating, oversleeping and lack of motivation, they're not going to help much. These symptoms are hallmarks of "atypical depression", which is actually the most common kind despite the name. I fall into this category. Here's my experience with various classes of drugs:

SSRI's & SNRI's: Mild change in personality (more "flat" according to others) but zero effect on mood, energy levels or motivation. No weight loss or gain. Felt like a sugar pill.

Tricyclics: Worsening of fatigue, brain fog, overeating and other symptoms. Massive weight gain. Best sleep ever, but no improvement in mood or other symptoms. This is the exact opposite of how I need to feel to function.

Anti-psychotics (Risperdal): Complete loss of emotion and creativity with no improvement in mood or energy. Toxic side effects (tremor, weight gain, profuse lactation). Felt like a chemical lobotomy.

The only thing that has EVER worked for me is stimulants, which are still prescribed off-label for treatment resistant depression. I don't abuse them and they haven't lost any of their effectiveness over the years. It's all self-medicating, but I hope to get a legit prescription soon.

TL;DR - Some types of depression require a drug that increases energy and motivation so you can get out of bed in the morning. For many of us, SSRI's just don't cut it.

Tianeptine sounds interesting but I'll probably avoid it since it's a TCA (even though it's not a "typical" one).
 
Tianeptine sounds interesting but I'll probably avoid it since it's a TCA (even though it's not a "typical" one).
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Well, tricyclics are so poorly tolerated because of their muscarinic and histaminergic effects, not because their structures contain 3 rings. I wouldn't hold tianeptine's structure against it. Also, since you respond so well to low-dose stimulants (I assume that the dosage is low, since you've found your regimen sustainable), I'd consider giving deprenyl a try (while being very careful about what you combine with it.

ebola
 
asecin said:
ok my tianeptine finished :( on the last day i took 20 pills total for the night and i had 5 hour crazy trip lol was great.
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What you are looking for could be something like MDAI, but Im sure you can take too much of it and die with that intellect of yours. (20 pills... dumbass)

MDAI was researched as an antidepressant that works quickly and it just releases serotonin and very little NE and DA so its not very stimulating.
Also they claimed its not neurotoxic.
That would be kind the opposite of tianeptine though (releasing serotonin instead of decreasing it)
I can not imagine that it works long term.
 
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ungelesene_bettlek said:
tianeptine or MDAI?
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MDAI, I mentioned it as an alternative.

I realize its completely different but it can make you euphoric and researchers think its not neurotoxic.
People died of it but who knows what they really got and what they mixed it with.
 
Ostensibly, the OP is looking for an anti-depressant, not an unsustainable euphoriant (though I'm slightly skeptical of the honestly of his intentions ;)).

ebola
 
You guy's have significantly more patience than me. If I was a moderator I would have closed this morons thread immediately.

@asecin: What you don't seem to grasp despite people repeatedly mentioning it in this thread is that there is no "magic get happy pill". Depression doesn't result from a single chemical imbalance and any drug which produces euphoria through a singular chemical mechanism will lead to a downregulation of that pathway and hence worsen depression in the long run. The finest Medicinal Chemists and Pharmacologists on the planet have thrown decades of research at the problem and SSRIs genuinely are the best thing to come of it so far.

If you continue to abuse drugs like Tianeptine in the manner you describe you will run into serious complications, far worse than "a bit depressed". It reminds me of the kids at school who would snort Citalopram for shits and giggles, then end up in hospital and blame it on "idiot doctors".
 
"it's fun"...what, abusing tianeptine or discussing things in this thread? If you mean the former, just procure some recreational drugs!

ebola
 
I'm going to close this now that we've established this was basically a waste of time.
 
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