Stimulants How to fix your dopamine levels after depleted by Stimulants.

[Cassy2611]

I'm prescribed 70mg of vyvanse a day in a split dose 40mg/30mg. Was out for a couple weeks but tried other nootropics then and had days off throughout. I usually try to take a day break once a week, although those days I get extremely depressed because I have EDS excessive daytime sleepiness and im unable to stay awake throughout the day. Ill fall asleep every few hours and I fall asleep driving sometimes too.

Never used to be this bad but maybe my effexor helped with that, was on it for many years and will probably go back on it again along with 2mg abilify which together seems to wake me up. Also idk if this all started before or after my 3 year long adderall binge from 19-21, I am now 32. After that adderall never worked the same, tried it 6 years ago, was able to stay awake but ended up with a chronic sweating problem after a 2-3 day binge and never touched it again until the past few months, and only for a day or two if I run out of vyvanse early. Sometimes I take an extra on Fridays. But now adderall does nothing but make me calm or tired, cant think fast. I don't care that adderall doesnt work but maybe it'd help someone explain to me what I did to my brain or why vyvanse and Ritalin work but adderall doesnt.

Ritalin has always worked, I was prescribed to max dose but never took it as prescribed, but that was at least 6 years ago too.

I am also prescribed to suboxone 6 years ago after a 2 year pain killer addiction.

Anyways I just want to take my vyvanse as prescribed or take less or just take supplements or both. When I was first prescribed vyvanse back in October I couldn't even handle a 30mg vyvanse it was way too intense, couldn't think straight, couldn't talk quickly and clearly. But it was only like that for the first day.

What I want to know is if I destroyed my dopamine receptors or is my brain not creating enough dopamine and what can I do and use to fix it or help it.

Had an MRI done in the last year and there were no gray spots my neurologist said which is something she sees from chronic drug abuse.

And just for reference the medicine that helped me the most and I didn't need to take antidepressants or a whole combo of meds was klonipin, it fixed my depression, everything, I could function normally, I was happy. (Only medicine that helped my mom too) Never liked Xanax, made me feel high and didn't like lorazapam either, even though I was on it for years before klonipin. And when I went to rehab and detox 6 yr ago they only detoxed me from opiates not my benzos, it was hell. Had to quit those cold turkey.

I do take l-tyrosine daily, multivitamin, true focus vitamin that has potassium and ginkgo and coq10, sometimes if I don't take it I feel light headed, thought it has to do with not enough potassium. I take fish oil and magnesium glycinate.

Anyways when I first got prescribed to vyvanse I stupid with it for the first 2-3 months but my quality of life sucks without it. Sleeping your life away is no way to live and it's extremely depressing.

I will keep taking 1-2 day breaks weekly, but I was going to order bromantane, menatine, or 9mebc or jiaogulan. Idk I don't want to mess up my brain because I'm worried I mightve done that trying different nootropics these past few weeks.

And yes I do have modafinil and armodafinil/artvigil to help me take breaks but they don't give me any motivation and I need to try different kinds because the modalert I have is nothing like the actual prescription I had before vyvanse. The artvigil works decent but might need more because it's not lasting all day. Still have a bunch of strattera was thinking starttera with one of those might work.

O and I was told to use Semax to potentiate the vyvanse to take less, but im starting to think its making things worse, headache, brain fog. I will stop with that.

 

[neversickanymore]

Aerobic exercise plus a neurotransmitter precursor phenylalanine and l tyrosine. Exercise stimulates the neurotransmitters to be produced and promotes regulation. Precursors provide the chemicals needed in abundance. Consider adding the precursor into your daily supplements, they are cheap and work great.

Doesn’t take much exercise especially if you haven’t done much in a bit.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes, I second aerobic exercise.

Aerobic exercise and proper sleep will do more to repair receptors than any supplement or drug, assuming you also have proper nutrition.

 

[Cassy2611]

I try to have proper nutrition, sometimes I don't eat a lot or enough but I try to eat low carb to keep losing weight and mainly drink water and a gaterade or pedialyte throughout the day, I get dehydrated easily according to my doctor.

I have PEA vitamin, Phenylethylamine, but I wasn't sure if I should keep taking it because it's similiar to amphetamine according to what I read or maybe take it on off days, us Phenylalanine better or safer to take and do I take those on off days when I just use modafinil or armodafinil?

Figured I should be taking NAC and ALCAR with ALA to prevent neurotoxicity and help detox my brain especially after trying different nootropics the past 2 weeks.

 

[Cassy2611]

Aerobic exercise plus a neurotransmitter precursor phenylalanine and l tyrosine. Exercise stimulates the neurotransmitters to be produced and promotes regulation. Precursors provide the chemicals needed in abundance. Consider adding the precursor into your daily supplements, they are cheap and work great.

Doesn’t take much exercise especially if you haven’t done much in a bit.

Sorry just realized my True Focus supplement from now has L-phenylalanine and L-tyrosine so I have been taking that for a week or 2 now it has other ingredients as well, potassium, dmae, ginkgo, coq10, grape seed extract, vitamin B6, vitamin c. So I wouldn't take PEA with this?

 

[neversickanymore]

What about the exercise as it’s a key ingredient.. here are some links originally designed at treating PAWS.. but they some are clearly right in line with what your looking for.

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Exercise and Brain Neurotransmission
Neurobiology of Exercise
Aerobic Exercise
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. The Endorphin Factory
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
exercise and sleep
Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Diet & Neurogenesis

Check out the exercise links and other sources you can find. Tolerance will take its toll, but this is your money approach to dealing with your situation.

 

[Cassy2611]

What about the exercise as it’s a key ingredient.. here are some links originally designed at treating PAWS.. but they some are clearly right in line with what your looking for.



Check out the exercise links and other sources you can find. Tolerance will take its toll, but this is your money approach to dealing with your situation.

I definitely believe that exercising would help, I used to do at least a 15 min HIIT workout in the morning but I've been pretty depressed the past couple weeks and still am greatly depressed from losing a very close family member suddenly. She was 51 and dropped dead. I'm sure this also has some to do with me being so focused on how to fix my brain. Maybe its not as bad as it is or I'm mixing the wrong combination of stuff together, because this morning when I took my 40mg vyvanse once it kicked in I felt great, had motivation, energy and could stay awake, although it takes several hours to kick in but still was great until a few hours later. For the rest of the day I've had brain fog and pressure on the sides of my head by my temples. But hopefully it'll be gone after a good night sleep and exercise. I also am prescribed to blood pressure and heart medication and I believe that if I don't keep my blood pressure under control that can lead to a brain aneurysm which I lost another family member years ago from one, she was 31 and I believe she did a lot of stimulants like coke back then. This is another reason I'd like to take less medicine.

I did read something about modafinil having a cross tolerance affect. Is this true because that means on my break days I can't use that either and it was my backup plan. Also wish I could find modafinil like the actual prescription one I was on. Modalert does nothing, artvigil worked for a few days and stopped and they taste really weird not like a pill but maybe herbs or something. Didn't mean to taste it, just happened by accident when I was trying to take it.

Otherwise I was considering bromantane to take on break days. Really like cyclazodone but feel like that will just increase my tolerance too.

 

[dopefisher]

Sorry just realized my True Focus supplement from now has L-phenylalanine and L-tyrosine so I have been taking that for a week or 2 now it has other ingredients as well, potassium, dmae, ginkgo, coq10, grape seed extract, vitamin B6, vitamin c. So I wouldn't take PEA with this?

Please be careful with PEA! If you take too much you could end up with a hypertensive crisis!

 

[Cassy2611]

Please be careful with PEA! If you take too much you could end up with a hypertensive crisis!

OK, I've only tried 250mg-500mg PEA a couple times but I don't like it and I think it gives me headaches. Idk if it doesn't agree with my bc its similar to amphetamine which doesn't work for me but D-amphetamine does.

I did start taking a supplement that has Uridine and GPC which I feel like is helping my tolerance go down or at least my regular dosage is almost enough again. Been taking this for a week.

 

[Cassy2611]

Couple additional things,



The artvigil and modalert I have are not like the modafinil I was prescribed. They have a really weird herbal taste and give me headaches with any other stim. The modaelrt doesnt do anything and the artvigil stopped lasting 10 hours after 3 days. Hopefully I can find a better version like my previous prescription.


Planned on using modafinil for break days or to take less or lowering my tolerance to vy, but does modafinil have a cross tolerance effect?



Things I've found that work, but need to experiment with dosage to find right amount for with and without stims, but no overstimulation issues so far.



Sabroxy

(Oroxylin indicum had 10% Oroxylin A) helps me with or without vyvanse, I need 250-500mg once or twice a day depending if I'm taking vyvanse that day. Started with 100mg tabs, now have 500mg tabs. Seems to give energy and/or motivation and wakefullness.

Note: May only need 250mg-500 a day but without vyvanse 250-500mg 2xs a day


Oxiracetam is my #1 for:

vyvanse afternoon booster,

Closest wakefulness modafinil alternative,

Safest vyvanse alternative that has a motivational boost, energy boost, but isn't overstimulating.



Dosage I started with 200mg 1x a day now up to 500mg 2xs a day by itself or 500-750mg once a day in afternoon for boost with vyvanse. Haven't noticed any negative effects.



(Cyclazodone was the most similiar vyvanse alternative I've found but may not be safe to use for extended periods of time due to lack of research)



(Note: I'm prescribed suboxone 12mg, only take 8mg or less with 1g kratom 1-2xs a day, was taking more kratom but didn't want to build a tolerance to quick because kratom sounds easier to quit than sub which I tried once and ended up in the hospital after 10 days of going through excruciatingly painful terrible paralyzing hell a couple years ago. But I was on 16mg a day of sub for several years and jumped off at 1-2mg which I tapared down to on my own in a couple months it was hell.)



Kratom gives me a boost if my vyvanse haven't kicked in(2 hours it takes to kick in for me) I don't believe taking kratom is bad at this dose even with everything else.



Dopa Mucuna

Lastly, is taking Dopa Mucuna really that bad? It helps me so much and it's technically Mucuna Priens 15%L-Dopa, I know the prescription L-Dopa I wouldn't want to take. But the supplement Dopa Mucuna 1x a day seems to make everything synergies and I feel great and evened out and it feels like my meds are working like they're supposed to instead of being over stimulated.



Since Mucuna Dopa has the arousal/put u in the mood effect could that be why it's not overstimulating and helps me relax a little and think clearer like when I was on Ritalin and klonipin for years and I know that's an odd combo bc they can cancel each other out.

Note: if I'm over stimulated than no Dopa Mucuna doesn't help, may even give me a headache. But if I feel like my meds or stack isn't fully working and I'm getting sleepy and can't concentrate then I'll take a dose, a couple hours after my first vyvanse or ill try to use it to not take my second dose or at least not the full dose

My stack: (My doses differ for some of these depending on whether I'm taking vyvanse that day or if it's a break day or only took half my dose. The range on some of the doses shows the minimum amount I need with vyvanse and the maximum amount I need without)

True Focus- 2 caps= L-phenylalanine 300mg, L-tyrosine 800mg, potassium, vitamin b and c, DMAE, gingko bilboa 40mg and coq10 10mg.

(Sometimes I'll take 1 of these in am, half dose, and a 500mg L-tyrosine later in the afternoon)

Sabroxy- 250-500mg 1-2x a day

Alpha GPC Choline & Uridine -600mg and 300mg

Fish Oil - 1 cap =1200mg 1-2xs a day

Magnesium - 200-400mg a day

Dopa Mucuna - 2 caps = 800mg Mucuna Priens & 120mg 15% L-Dopa

L-Theanine & natural caffeine - 200mg L-theanine & 100mg Natural Caffeine (for morning boost if needed otherwise 150mg L-theanine 2xs a day)

Ginkgo Bilboa - 120mg 1x a day, not everyday, only if I need more energy or too sleepy

Oxiracetam- 500-750mg 1x a day as an afternoon booster to morning vyvanse dose. Without vyvanse, same dosage 2x a day.

Kratom - 1g 1-2xs a day, white or green or 1 of each

Prescribed:
Vyvanse - 40mg 5:30am, 30mg 11am ( I do not take a full dose and stack listed above daily, been experimenting to help me cut down on vyvanse or to find a stack that works on my weekly break day)

Suboxone - 8mg-6mg 10am-12pm

Propranolol 20mg 2x a day, been on higher doses.

Flecainide 150mg 2xs a day

Glycopyrralate 2mg up to 3xs a day, probably take 1-2xs a day, for over swearing which started 6 years ago, the last time I tried to abuse adderall. Think I took way too much, never sweated like that or felt like that.

Trying to go back on effexor, my depression is very high due to grieving and I think that helps with my EDS/Narcolepsy.

And 2mg abilify, may go back on, before I was put on vyvanse, abilify gave me energy and I told Dr. That taking it before bed made it hard to sleep which he was suprised but if your low on dopamine doesn't it increase it and if you have to much it lowers it. I have used one 2xs from getting too overstimulated trying all these different things and L-Theanie wouldn't help enough. I like abilify and vyvanse together, I was prescribed to both at the time. Abilify evened me out when I first started on vyvanse but then after a few months as my tolerance went up it felt like it was lessening the effects of vyvanse and I was having problems concentrating.

Lastly, when I went rehab for speed and taking painkillers. I'd also use the painkillers or my klonipin to help with the come down. I was prescribed to benzos for mainy years and wasn't detoxed off them which Idk if that did anything to my brain.

 

[plumbus-nine]

When I was prescribed Concerta (methylphenidate XR), taking it alone as prescribed would lead to a fast and strong increase in tolerance, I can't provide hard numbers because it's been some time since and because I didn't do logs but after maybe 2-3 weeks tolerance hit a level on which I'd need the Concerta just to reach baseline, no more stimulation or increased focus, at least not much and a rebound depression if I didn't take it.

Now together with a NMDA antagonist (did use DXM ~100-150mg/d) tolerance stood at bay for 3 months or so. After that time I developed some weird heartburn-like pain, possibly angina pectoris, possibly stomach acid as the docs told me, possibly god knows what - probably from the combined norepinephrinergic effects of the MPH and the DXM - so I eventually had to quit but the slowdown of tolerance development was remarkable. I know that most people tolerate DXM + stimulant without developing the symptoms I had and we have more selective dissociatives like memantine. If you want to sustain on stims I can only recommend to give it a try.

Agmatine is an endogenous compound which might help, but here despite good sounding theory I've yet to read good reports about it. Another possibility is the antioxidant emoxepine which helps against dopamine toxicity through oxidation and in my experiences resolved the hangover of isopropylphenidate - but unfortunately I've yet to try it together with amphetamine. Dopamine depletion appears to be only part of the picture, it's restocked/replenished pretty fast under good circumstances and in theory should precursors like mucuna pruriens/levodopa immediately replenish the storages like with 5-HTP and serotonin releasers like MDMA but evidence is that it helps, yet not completely, so there's other stuff going on. Also seems levodopa to be quite dangerous in people without Parkinson's and I can't recommend dabbling with it at the moment.

@Cassy2611 Interesting that you have good results with both oxiracetam and sabroxy together with lisdexamphetamine. I'm wary about racetams because I've read about edgyness and feelings of being overstimmed even alone.

 

[Specified]

What about L Dopa?

 

[plumbus-nine]

What about L Dopa?

In theory it should work but the reality is a bit different. Here I've asked about and people told me it was a bad idea.

 

[hardtack]

Good diet of Steaks , Roast Beef , loads of Serotonin replacement with Turkey Breast and 5 -HTP . Got the extra money buy Good Body Builder Protein and fuel the fire ! works perfectly for me and will for you too! Also if hard core raver or partier invest in lots of supplements and avoid being some disheveled crack head or zombie. Sorry took years to find the right replenishment system.

 

[hardtack]

What about L Dopa?

Yeah they work too Mucuna Puriens as well as Tyrosine , Phenylalanine , even good big Shake from say good old Chick Filet like me and my GF do before heading to the Club and rolling thunder for hours and hours. Try it and let me know if does the job?

 

[Cassy2611]

When I was prescribed Concerta (methylphenidate XR), taking it alone as prescribed would lead to a fast and strong increase in tolerance, I can't provide hard numbers because it's been some time since and because I didn't do logs but after maybe 2-3 weeks tolerance hit a level on which I'd need the Concerta just to reach baseline, no more stimulation or increased focus, at least not much and a rebound depression if I didn't take it.

Now together with a NMDA antagonist (did use DXM ~100-150mg/d) tolerance stood at bay for 3 months or so. After that time I developed some weird heartburn-like pain, possibly angina pectoris, possibly stomach acid as the docs told me, possibly god knows what - probably from the combined norepinephrinergic effects of the MPH and the DXM - so I eventually had to quit but the slowdown of tolerance development was remarkable. I know that most people tolerate DXM + stimulant without developing the symptoms I had and we have more selective dissociatives like memantine. If you want to sustain on stims I can only recommend to give it a try.

Agmatine is an endogenous compound which might help, but here despite good sounding theory I've yet to read good reports about it. Another possibility is the antioxidant emoxepine which helps against dopamine toxicity through oxidation and in my experiences resolved the hangover of isopropylphenidate - but unfortunately I've yet to try it together with amphetamine. Dopamine depletion appears to be only part of the picture, it's restocked/replenished pretty fast under good circumstances and in theory should precursors like mucuna pruriens/levodopa immediately replenish the storages like with 5-HTP and serotonin releasers like MDMA but evidence is that it helps, yet not completely, so there's other stuff going on. Also seems levodopa to be quite dangerous in people without Parkinson's and I can't recommend dabbling with it at the moment.

@Cassy2611 Interesting that you have good results with both oxiracetam and sabroxy together with lisdexamphetamine. I'm wary about racetams because I've read about edgyness and feelings of being overstimmed even alone.

Regarding racetams, I was nervous to try them, piracetam didn't do anything, noopept I think gives me a little energy but I have to take 30mg. But if I take ginkgo, natural caffeine with L-theanine, l-tyrosine with either dopa mucna or sabroxy all together is way more stimulating than noopept too me. Oxiracetam feels cleaner, less jittery, it reminds me a lot of my modafinil prescription but better . Also I won't take oxiracetam without the uridine & choline supplement, bc u have to take some type of choline or you'll have terrible headaches.

Also, If I use these on a day I take vyvanse I don't take my full dose, only like 40mg vyvanse and use some of these as a booster. I'm sure my stack isn't perfect but these are the things I've tried.

Which I think I forgot to mention clobenzorex- diet pill thats a pro drug of d-amph I've used that in place of vyvanse too.

And doesn't Suboxone affect the CNS which would decrease effects of stimulants.

I believe Propranolol and/or flecainide decrease these effects too.

I have tried DXM at night after taking vyvanse or in am with it but it made my heart race.

I do have memantine. It's OK to take 5mg at night on the same day I took vyvanse or any of these?

 

[Cassy2611]

Good diet of Steaks , Roast Beef , loads of Serotonin replacement with Turkey Breast and 5 -HTP . Got the extra money buy Good Body Builder Protein and fuel the fire ! works perfectly for me and will for you too! Also if hard core raver or partier invest in lots of supplements and avoid being some disheveled crack head or zombie. Sorry took years to find the right replenishment system.

Yeah I definitely don't want to be a zombie or crack head, been there 6 years ago. I just want to be able to get through a full work day without falling asleep multiple times throughout the day. And have energy to live instead of having no energy or no motivation to do anything that makes me happy.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I do have memantine. It's OK to take 5mg at night on the same day I took vyvanse or any of these?

Yeah, memantine + stim is safe even in higher dosages than 5mg.
DXM indeed is a nastily strong norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor with cardiac side effects/bodyload which eventually had me quit it because of heartburn/angina pectoris like pain and tachycardia. Memantine is a light stim too but because of its D2 agonism, not norepinephrine.

I do take propranolol against tachycardia (my resting BPM is higher than 90) and it does make one tired if taken more than 40mg and will probably dampen the effects of stims a bit but far less than e.g. clonidine/xylazine would and it doesn't touch dopamine.

 

[Cassy2611]

Yeah, memantine + stim is safe even in higher dosages than 5mg.
DXM indeed is a nastily strong norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor with cardiac side effects/bodyload which eventually had me quit it because of heartburn/angina pectoris like pain and tachycardia. Memantine is a light stim too but because of its D2 agonism, not norepinephrine.

I do take propranolol against tachycardia (my resting BPM is higher than 90) and it does make one tired if taken more than 40mg and will probably dampen the effects of stims a bit but far less than e.g. clonidine/xylazine would and it doesn't touch dopamine.

Ok I've read at higher doses people get really bad brain fog. How long will I need to take mematine?

I take 20mg of propranolol 2xs a day, I usually end up at 40mg 2xs a day, been on propranolol since I was a kid, but now that I'm on Flecainide 150mg 2xs a day I don't think I need as much Propranolol bc the Flecainide.

Flecainide = Antiarrhythmic- it can treat and prevent serious irregular heartbeats (arrhythmias). high level of CNS adverse effects including dizziness (19-30%), visual disturbances (16%), fatigue (8%) and somnolence and insomnia at a frequency between 1% and 3%.

I also couldn't be on any stimulant without being on propranolol and flecainide. That's the only reason my Dr prescribed me.

And I'm not a big partner or raver, I have a few drinks on Fridays sometimes, but otherwise I work from home due to covid and my job has an intense background check. But I have a desk/telecommunications job and other than that I write poetry and play a lot of home escape room games. But without my meds I can't stay awake more than 2-3 hours at a time.

Also I would prefer to not have to take vyvanse and just a combination of supplements or at least not need vyvanse every day.

 

[hardtack]

Yeah I definitely don't want to be a zombie or crack head, been there 6 years ago. I just want to be able to get through a full work day without falling asleep multiple times throughout the day and never having energy or motivation or concentration to do anything that makes me happy or anything for that matter

UH I have become somewhat extremely addicted to well what I am doing now LOL and did some quality rock and this RC makes that like 1990's Camry compared to Brand new 2022 Camry. Yeah and smokable but not same beast that old Ready is or was. And it has no real after effects. It wakes your ass up in 1/100th of second. But it is a Key and so is Coke or Ready . Plus I really should be ashamed having actually cleaned up in a way I am not going to advertise and saved my life literally long ago after Doctor in Hospital looked at me with anger and stated : Nothing we can do for you and have no Dialysis machine here; so long story short I knew major old Body Builder secret & I know it's still used By big pros today. But to get back to things I have mentioned for STIM users and perhaps heavy Rollers yeah it's like same thing for Muscles and building them up. Same goes for Brain chems ,( Dopamine, Serotonin; Nor Epinephrine , other brain parts) ...total replenishment and feeding the fire. It's basic science and literally in WIKA online. Rest is (Just Google) specific Foods that create it in your body and transfer to our brains. Does it work 100% - I have done without and fell out a t 4pm did it and fueled and stayed up 2 days like some Meth Head and NO bad effects other than gonna have urge to eat specific and Sleep allot to let body do it's thing. Now energy that's really based on how your body synthesizes sugars and how your Brain as well as muscles work in conjunction with each other. Man I can tell you most bad rap back in 1990's of company that should have just stuck to creating Protein Powder and left the supplement kit out of sales. Cybergenics was the most energetic muscle protein sold in Blue 3 or 4 gallon Plastic bucket. That was like best energy and best tasting supplement ever for me. I think it had everything in it back then. I took it once when doing real deal Molly and damn I thought I was going to fly off ground like Superman Man of steel never so charged up in my life. I was 25 back then and guess it was the right mix for me. Just try different combos is all I can say that seem to charge you up right. Me it's still Damned expensive body builder shakes and eating loads of T-bone Steaks. That's damned expensive today. Good luck oh music of course charges me up too maybe vibes feel good to my spirit soul or motivates me . Best advise I can give good luck