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Bupe How to fight sub-tapper headaches?

Opi_Kid_Rock

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
933
Hello BL,

I had experienced bad chronic headaches while trying to tapper down from 2mg Suboxone per day down to 1mg or even 1.5mg per day. Headaches were crippling for my work. What do you think I should do? Anyone have experience with this headache phenomenon and subs?
 
I tried Subs two times and got the worst headaches ever. I don't know what it is about that stuff, but it just doesn't agree with me. I've felt better after drinking a pint of tequila!
 
I had headaches for the first 6 months on subs.
I don't get them anymore though & honestly nothing really helped except time.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with buprenorphine causing an increase in cerebral spinal fluid (something only partial agonists cause).
If that causes the extra pressure in the head, leading to headaches/migraines, I'm not sure there's a whole lot you can do other than the usual tylenol/ibuprofen
or stopping subs altogether.

I found some binaural beats designed for migraines/headaches to sort of help when I was dealing with sub-migraines. Dunno if it was just placebo or not though.
If you know anyone who can give you a head massage, that always felt great too. lol
 
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Hey @Opi_Kid_Rock

I have to admit, this phenomenon is new to me. I had never heard someone specifically refer to these headaches as a symptom.

I would highly recommend consulting your doctor regarding some treatments for the headaches. There are many options available and they are worth trying. Many are non-narcotic/non-addictive. There was once a drug called Fiorinal that was a combination of a Barbiturate (Butalbital), Caffeine and Paracetamol. This was considered a pretty effective medication and was at one time very popular. It could just be that Barbiturates take one's mind off the problem, I'm not sure.

I'm not going to try to be your parent, but please make sure to stay hydrated, nourished and to be getting enough sleep. I really think the best answer will lie with you consulting your prescriber and trying some things out.
 
Ibuprofen is what mostly helped I tapered a few weeks to around 4mg then a week of 1-2mg then the last day jumping at about 6mg and that I'm sure was a mistake from the heavy withdrawal the first several days.
 
I just began SUBOXONE in mid-December 2022 and they worked great. I had a work injury with a compressed sciatic nerve 8 years ago, , and got prescribed hydrocodone for 5 years. Took a long time to develop a dependence. The rehab that was handling my case just suddenly cut me off, with only one rehab referral which was a Stanford research project. I was super low on funds from having missed so much work in conjunction with a crappy workman's comp settlement. I contacted Stanford who denied my entry because all I had was some El Cheapo health insurance. I discovered PST and went about 3 years on that after the hydros..which the necessary quality PST ingredient was expensive and not always available. (incidentally, it was incredibly how perky and functional i am, aside from the dependency on PST)

A few times I tried stopping PST and went as far as 5 days/nights around the clock vomitting horribly. Could not hold down any food, so after 3 days the vomitting got even worse with the heaves. A few times i went to the ER and got a small dose of suboxone, but had severe chronic pain nonstop from my commpressed sciatic nerve, so i just returned to PST. I did not know about Coastal Primary Care in CA. eventually after several ER visits, they informed me about Coastal Primary.

Actually, before the third or so time i went to the ER and was given a week supply of suboxone, I on my own figured out how to stop my 8-year-long sciatic nerve pain. (incidentally, if you've never experienced that, it's just like an incredibly intense molar toothache in the center of the back of my left calf even though the pinched nerve is in the lower back. I was sent by the Rehab handling my WC case to a couple of physical therapists who told me that for sure they could get my pain to either totally stop or be at a very minor level. That NEVER happened. Half the time i was walking out of the PT's office after an appointment, i felt no better than when I walked in.....sometimes even worse. They had me doing tons of vigorous stretchs, legs lifts, low-level weights to keep muscles toned, etc.

After those many years with no progress AT ALL, plus the mental pain of concluding this pain would be with me FOR LIFE, chronic physical pain and chronic opiates, I just decinded to STOP ALL EXERCISING, including all the stuff PT had me doing. I spent massive amounts of time laying on a flat firm surface, which was my living room floor, on top of only an open sleeping bag. Sometimes i raised my legs, sometimes not. I stopped doing ANY deliberate exercice at all and even divided my grocery bags into 5 pounds or less. To my amazement, after 8 years of that perpetual, strong pain, the pain began to lift. Within about 6-8 months it faded until it pretty much COMPLETELY stopped. Right now it's virtually non-existent and just does not enter my mind...except for when i think of how i got started on the opiate path. BUTTTTTT....i was left with an opiate dependency. At the age of 67 i still had a 6-pack, which i do miss, but to be pain-free is soooo well worth it.

So back to my suboxone, it worked great for 5 full months and then the headaches began. Taking an OTC remedy made them even worse. I tried to completely wean myself off of subone and little by little took less and less until i was taking just a tiny amount. Then i totally stopped. But after a month, I'm still having withdrawal effects. I used to sleep wonderfully with suboxone. with NONE, it was 3 hours per night at most and it's crappy quality sleep;, i'm always low on energy and i get restless legs when i lay down and try to sleep or just lay down to relax while watching TV. MAINLY, i need to get back to work or else I'm literally going to be homeless and my life will go downhill from thero, so i don't see a way to ditch suboxone totally because i don't have the time to do so. I did not foresee the headches and i cannot see if i am just going to be forced to STOP suboxone no matter how i do so, because of the headaches or something else i cannot foresee. The good news is the withdrawal effects are minor compared to the hydros and PST. for example, i NEVER puke or am even nauseas.

I spoke with my doctor via Coastal Primary in Orange County CA and he had no suggestion that worked. So, i just today remembered bluelight.org and did an online search. I saw one piece on trying Benedryl an hour before taking subox. I'm only taking a little chip of suboxone and I can get enough sleep even though it's definitely not a "fully restorative rest"but it'll work for now...but I have the headaches.

I happy that my compressed sciatic nerve pain is gone and I've learned that I CAN totally get off of suboxone, but now, the problem is that I cannot afford the time it is going to take to do that. I can't predict how long it will take for my symptoms to go away which disrupt my ability to fully functon, so it looks like I may have to be staying on the little piece of suboxone that i had been using. To get to the point: I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO TAKE OF FROM WORKING HOWEVER LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR THE HORRIBLE SLEEP AND RESTLESS LEGS TO STOP ENOUGH FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO CONSISTENTLY HOLD A JOB. Considering that this is the USA and all of this began with a workman's comp case....THAT SUCKS!...but there is nothing i can do about that.

Although, I REALLY want to find a way to get rid of these headaches. Their chronic nature's effect on my daily mindset is even more wearing the their degree of intensity at any given moment.

To summarize: 1) I hope what worked for my sciatic nerve pain from my back injury may be helpful to someone else; 2) in CA the Coastal Primary appointment is $200 per month which is bearable considering the State of CA will pay for the suboxone prescription in case you did not know about that...they won't prescribe to a pharmacy out of state thoug; ANDDDDD..... 3) I REALLY HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME WITH MY GETTING RID OF THESE HEADACHES SO I CAN COMPLETELY GET OFF THE SUBOXONE, which as I say, I've seen is do-able except for the headaches.

I KNOW I WROTE A LOT HERE, BUT I AM SEEKING HELP, SO RESPECT THE MISSION OF BLUELIGHT, AND I HOPE MY PERSONAL AND PUBLIC DISCLOSURES CAN BE HELPFUL TO SOMEONE ELSE TOO. So i respectfully request that you do not abbreviate this post...which is my first ever.

One more thing;
the times I ended up going to a nearby ER because they were reducing my hydro per month presciption, until they just totally cut me off....the ER staff first didn't just inquire where i got the hydros ....even though i provided all details about a legit injury and legit Tx, they were very "snotty". Even though i have documentation and provided the names of both my treatment facility and DR.

I was happy to just today be finding out about the 'Support Don't Punish" growth. Hopefully society if finally getting more intelligent about how to deal with drugs and will back off of The War On Drugs which so obviously has not 'worked.'
 
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I just began SUBOXONE in mid-December 2022 and they worked great. I had a work injury with a compressed sciatic nerve 8 years ago, , and got prescribed hydrocodone for 5 years. Took a long time to develop a dependence. The rehab that was handling my case just suddenly cut me off, with only one rehab referral which was a Stanford research project. I was super low on funds from having missed so much work in conjunction with a crappy workman's comp settlement. I contacted Stanford who denied my entry because all I had was some El Cheapo health insurance. I discovered PST and went about 3 years on that after the hydros..which the necessary quality PST ingredient was expensive and not always available. (incidentally, it was incredibly how perky and functional i am, aside from the dependency on PST)

A few times I tried stopping PST and went as far as 5 days/nights around the clock vomitting horribly. Could not hold down any food, so after 3 days the vomitting got even worse with the heaves. A few times i went to the ER and got a small dose of suboxone, but had severe chronic pain nonstop from my commpressed sciatic nerve, so i just returned to PST. I did not know about Coastal Primary Care in CA. eventually after several ER visits, they informed me about Coastal Primary.

Actually, before the third or so time i went to the ER and was given a week supply of suboxone, I on my own figured out how to stop my 8-year-long sciatic nerve pain. (incidentally, if you've never experienced that, it's just like an incredibly intense molar toothache in the center of the back of my left calf even though the pinched nerve is in the lower back. I was sent by the Rehab handling my WC case to a couple of physical therapists who told me that for sure they could get my pain to either totally stop or be at a very minor level. That NEVER happened. Half the time i was walking out of the PT's office after an appointment, i felt no better than when I walked in.....sometimes even worse. They had me doing tons of vigorous stretchs, legs lifts, low-level weights to keep muscles toned, etc.

After those many years with no progress AT ALL, plus the mental pain of concluding this pain would be with me FOR LIFE, chronic physical pain and chronic opiates, I just decinded to STOP ALL EXERCISING, including all the stuff PT had me doing. I spent massive amounts of time laying on a flat firm surface, which was my living room floor, on top of only an open sleeping bag. Sometimes i raised my legs, sometimes not. I stopped doing ANY deliberate exercice at all and even divided my grocery bags into 5 pounds or less. To my amazement, after 8 years of that perpetual, strong pain, the pain began to lift. Within about 6-8 months it faded until it pretty much COMPLETELY stopped. Right now it's virtually non-existent and just does not enter my mind...except for when i think of how i got started on the opiate path. BUTTTTTT....i was left with an opiate dependency. At the age of 67 i still had a 6-pack, which i do miss, but to be pain-free is soooo well worth it.

So back to my suboxone, it worked great for 5 full months and then the headaches began. Taking an OTC remedy made them even worse. I tried to completely wean myself off of subone and little by little took less and less until i was taking just a tiny amount. Then i totally stopped. But after a month, I'm still having withdrawal effects. I used to sleep wonderfully with suboxone. with NONE, it was 3 hours per night at most and it's crappy quality sleep;, i'm always low on energy and i get restless legs when i lay down and try to sleep or just lay down to relax while watching TV. MAINLY, i need to get back to work or else I'm literally going to be homeless and my life will go downhill from thero, so i don't see a way to ditch suboxone totally because i don't have the time to do so. I did not foresee the headches and i cannot see if i am just going to be forced to STOP suboxone no matter how i do so, because of the headaches or something else i cannot foresee. The good news is the withdrawal effects are minor compared to the hydros and PST. for example, i NEVER puke or am even nauseas.

I spoke with my doctor via Coastal Primary in Orange County CA and he had no suggestion that worked. So, i just today remembered bluelight.org and did an online search. I saw one piece on trying Benedryl an hour before taking subox. I'm only taking a little chip of suboxone and I can get enough sleep even though it's definitely not a "fully restorative rest"but it'll work for now...but I have the headaches.

I happy that my compressed sciatic nerve pain is gone and I've learned that I CAN totally get off of suboxone, but now, the problem is that I cannot afford the time it is going to take to do that. I can't predict how long it will take for my symptoms to go away which disrupt my ability to fully functon, so it looks like I may have to be staying on the little piece of suboxone that i had been using. To get to the point: I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO TAKE OF FROM WORKING HOWEVER LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR THE HORRIBLE SLEEP AND RESTLESS LEGS TO STOP ENOUGH FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO CONSISTENTLY HOLD A JOB. Considering that this is the USA and all of this began with a workman's comp case....THAT SUCKS!...but there is nothing i can do about that.

Although, I REALLY want to find a way to get rid of these headaches. Their chronic nature's effect on my daily mindset is even more wearing the their degree of intensity at any given moment.

To summarize: 1) I hope what worked for my sciatic nerve pain from my back injury may be helpful to someone else; 2) in CA the Coastal Primary appointment is $200 per month which is bearable considering the State of CA will pay for the suboxone prescription in case you did not know about that...they won't prescribe to a pharmacy out of state thoug; ANDDDDD..... 3) I REALLY HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME WITH MY GETTING RID OF THESE HEADACHES SO I CAN COMPLETELY GET OFF THE SUBOXONE, which as I say, I've seen is do-able except for the headaches.

I KNOW I WROTE A LOT HERE, BUT I AM SEEKING HELP, SO RESPECT THE MISSION OF BLUELIGHT, AND I HOPE MY PERSONAL AND PUBLIC DISCLOSURES CAN BE HELPFUL TO SOMEONE ELSE TOO. So i respectfully request that you do not abbreviate this post...which is my first ever.

One more thing;
the times I ended up going to a nearby ER because they were reducing my hydro per month presciption, until they just totally cut me off....the ER staff first didn't just inquire where i got the hydros ....even though i provided all details about a legit injury and legit Tx, they were very "snotty". Even though i have documentation and provided the names of both my treatment facility and DR.

I was happy to just today be finding out about the 'Support Don't Punish" growth. Hopefully society if finally getting more intelligent about how to deal with drugs and will back off of The War On Drugs which so obviously has not 'worked.'
So you’re saying taking Benadryl will ease the headaches?
 
I’ve experienced these headaches. I get them on generics buprenorphine or when I try to quit my brand name. I remember when I fast tapered down to .5mg from 4mg, it took about 3-4wks for them to go away. Wish I had a better answer but hopefully time heals. Please keep us updated because this withdrawal symptom is one that holds me back from trying to quit.

-GC
 
I just read about the benedryl approach yesterday afternoon and tried it an hour or so later. I took one 25mg an hour prior to my suboxone. I had a little twinge of headache, but it seemed to help significantly. The headache is different than most headaches I ever get in that it is just above eyebrow level in the center. The benedryl did make me feel a little bit fatigued. I did sleep well last night though...definitely due to the benedryl.

My situation is though, I've got to be returning to work here sometime within the next week or two after being on vacation for awhile. And, I'm going to have to be relocating, so I have stuff I need to do. That always seems to be my main hassle: time and money. For example, if i totally stop suboxone, my significant problems are that I get restless legs day and night, which not only is very uncomfortable, but my energy gets very low on the entire rest of my body. If you've never experienced it, you can get restless arms too, and it's a strong feeling of excess energy. It wrecks being able to sleep. At the same time, while stopping suboxone, it's just the legs feeling that way while the entire rest of my body is dragging-ass, so it's not like I'm going to go out for a jog. If I had access to a swimming pool, that'd probably be the best way to deal with energy-excess legs and energy-deficit rest of my body.

I don't know why, but PST and/or hydros very much perk me up physically and mentally. Of course my decision-making is a tad off, but for the most part the energy pervades my mind and body. I take my little bit of suboxone twice per day, so I will probably do the benedryl thing just in the evening and not for my morning subox dose. I'm doing that today, and I'm so far not having any headache worth mentioning. COASTAL PRIMARY is a "telemed" Tx 'site.' i was given their contact info from an ER who gave me a very small amount of suboxone strips...the brand name orange ones, not the brown ones that leave a "roach motel" taste in your mouth for hours. that's exactly what they smell like and smell is half of the tasting experience of eveything you put in your mouth. for INTAKE, i gave them my Hx facts of injury, compressed sciatic nerve Dx, and 5 years of Tx at a nearby, well known medical place, "Rehab [ ] " who specialize in WC case diagnosing, vouching, and legally documenting, etc, etc.

Once i got that done, first apptmt was $150 by phone, then once a month thereafter $200 per apptmt and ALL via phone. They were also able to contact the ER at the specific hospital I went to in central coast Cali, as well as CVS to verify all of my info. The Dr is really quite chill and easy to speak with. After phone apptmt, he calls in to your selected pharmacy....make sure they have it in stock or you might have to wait as much as several days. Usually, i was able to pick it up either that same day or early the next day...again, in Cali, for no payment necessary to the pharmacy. If something goes awry with your meds during the month, he is flexible about it. He does not at all give you an under-the-glaring-light interrigation and snotty attitude. That is something that still surprises me how in this day an age, about half the professionals i cross paths with still behave in such a way that it's obvious the thing that would make them happiest, is if they could somehow get you behind bars. to be descriptive, they are very unprofessional. My Dr at " Rehab [ ] " who wrote for my monthly hydros and physical therapy apptmts was always professional with me as far as being respectful, but at the same time, after prescribing hydros for 5 years....which that site does commonly as they specialize in chronic pain Tx....they presented me with nothing for chemical dependency Tx in my area except the Stanford University research project...which as i said, rejected me because i couldn't pay for it!

So far, the benedryl seems to be working, but it's only been one day so far. All in all, I'm happy to know that I could taper-off of suboxone fairly quickly without massive withdrawals. It's just the two problems I mention, but over time, they kinda wear on ya, especially not being able to sleep, because that gives me a time-out from feeling amped legs and drained rest-of-body. When i just totally stopped suboxone last week for 4 days, it was the way it wore on my mind that was the most difficult to cope with. At this point, I'm going to keep on with my little piece of suboxone, and continue with the benedryl. AND, looking toward the future: I'm going to set up a chunk of time and money, along with swimming pool access and try to totally get off the suboxone. (i will use the pool to exercise my legs without having to push the rest of my body to exert similarly, the way i would have to do if i was to go for a jog. A bike might be cool too, but i need to move in the next couple of days and don't have one. Plus, then I'd have to be dragging that along with me. When I first move, I'm just pretty much taking clothes and essentials, and will live in a motel for awhile.)

Lastly: it seems that there is a wide variation from one person to the next on suboxone, and even PST. I wonder if perhaps the variation may have something to do with the strength of the dependency. Mine is from only 5 years of hydros and 3 of PST. I've never got into heroin via any ingestion method. Otherwise, I had a major alcohol dependency but last use was literally during the 1980's. So, I can't use ethyl AT ALL in this process. It would probably help me if I could regarding the discomfort, but then I'd be re-igniting my alcoholism which was so severe, it's a wonder I lived through that. No way in the world is ANYTHING in my life worth going back to that shit. ALCOHOL IS A HORRIBLE DRUG to be addicted to.

And if you have spinal issues, by all means I strongly suggest you STAY AWAY FROM FOAM MATTRESSES such as temperpedic. After 5 minutes, you create a body-shaped indentation which so much holds you in one place, your muscles get no chance to tug little by little on your vertebrae to nudge them at least a little bit more into alignment. Along with my stopping deliberate exercise, making sure to not lift anything more than 5 pounds or so, I think just laying on a flat firm surface for so many hours watching TV and listening to music is what "repaired" me. My L5/S1 still looks scary on Xrays and scans, but my multiple years of chronic and severe pain is pretty much non existent. IMO "prayer and meditation" is always helpful, but seems to work best when you REALLY want help,
 
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Now on my third day taking one 25mg benedryl an hour or so before taking my second/other dose of suboxone for the day, and so far, so good regarding the headache side-effect. Just a minor twinge now and then but most definitely much better. It had gotten to where somedays I was putting an ice-cold wet wash cloth on my forehead for hours at a time. That's not at all been necessary since starting the benedryl 1x/day @ evening. It's not bothering me worth even being concerned about now.

So far, no restless legs or arms from the benedryl. I know that might change over time, but IMO it's worth trying.

I'll keep ya's posted. ...and I don't need to write any more manifesto-length posts on the topic, just fyi. thanks for bearing with me through that.
 
My 4th day just about over and no headaches or any other problem since i began taking one 25 mg benedryl (generic) 60 minutes prior to taking my second/last daily dose of suboxone. I always make sure to have at least a little bit of food in my stomach all day beginning as soon as I wake up, and then continue to eat hearty all day. I use a fair amount of caffeine to combat the little bit of drowsiness from the benedryl, then stop in mid-afternoon so it doesn't keep me awake when I need to sleep.

Dosage is 8 bup/2 nal
 
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My 5th day just about over and no headaches or any other problem since i began taking one 25 mg benedryl (generic) 60 minutes prior to taking my second/last daily dose of suboxone.
 
Okay. So here it is now September 2, 2023. Good news! The Suboxone = headaches problem is GONE! I spent a full month taking the 25 mg benadryl one hour before my evening Suboxone dose...because benadryl made me drowsy and if taken at 8 30 pm or thereabouts, I was going to bed soon anyway, so it was all good. I used to get a little twinge of a headache from time to time, even with the benadryl-60-minutes-before-Suboxone, but it was SO MUCH less painful.

At the 5th week, I stopped the benadryl + suboxone regimen and continued the suboxone alone.

Now at 7 full weeks, the headaches no longer accompany my Suboxone dose.

Once again, thank you bluelight.org community for providing a forum to get/give responsible and genuine communication on topics that should not be taboo in the first place. Ignorance thrives in the darkness and Rx (i.e., remedy) thrives @bluelight.org

- DJ
 
I was at these same situations as you so: ibuprofen 600mg 2 3x daily and never use Suboxone if you can go with Subutex, even some generics other without naloxone were giving me these I don't know why?, but Subutex nevery gave me headaches in taper but when jumped well that was a bitch almost as pregabalin and on same level as benzos in my case!
But suboxone to Subutex was sure as shit as I tried it twice
 
Benadryl/Dyphinhydramine(sp?) combined with massage of neck and shoulder muscles helps relieve headaches. I tappered down to 0.5mg/day subs from 1mg/day.
Currently fighting headaches some of the time but exhaustion every day. Energy drinks help as a temporary fix until my body acclimatizes to the reduced dosage.
 
Very interesting to read all this. I'm halfway through my taper now at 8mg so a ways to go yet, but this is my first time tapering so no clue about headaches with that regard... but all the times going cold turkey I can't recall being bothered by headaches, which isn't to say I wasn't having them, I may have, they just probably weren't my chief complaint. It looks like everyone is experiencing these headaches near the very end of their tapers?

Will definitely keep the benadryl in mind, should it arise. Keep it on hand anyway to help with sleep. 👍
 
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