how to cut 25i-nbome while avoiding hot spots

[DwayneHoover]

Take a cup of pure white sugar (representing the "cut") and put it in a quart jar with a lid.
Add a couple tablespoons of red sugar (representing the "active substance") right on top.

How many shakes does it take for there to be no Knots of Red? Not very many. Like 2 or 3, maybe 4 or 5 I guess depending on how hard you shake?

Powders intermix very rapidly and thoroughly when mixed this way, so long as they are dry.

I don't know why people promote the idea that you can never get them to mix properly because as this experiment shows, YES YOU CAN.

But I agree that using a coffee grinder is wise and guarantees 100% uniformity.

 

[any major dude]

i'm unconvinced. The sugar experiment you mention isn't really a good analogy as sugar & red sugar have the same size particles, are of the same density etc. A drug & cut, in this case anyway, likely will not (granted some do, such as cocaine & levamisole, but that's neither here nor there). Furthermore, see granular convection (the brazil nut effect). This wouldn't be quite as big a deal if we weren't dealing with something as potent as 25I-NBOMe, not to mention the complete lack of human toxicity data & the rather large amount. Plus there are plenty of more accurate ways to dose this that don't involve expensive or specialized equipment.

 

[Solipsis]

Having water in it is IMO better or maybe even necessary because if the carrier dissolves as well it allows for great homogenizing. The way I did it involved letting it dry until the carrier is wet but there is no excess liquid (sort of like 'field capacity' with shroom substrate if you are familiar with that). But still hot pockets can not be completely ruled out if the NBOMe turns out to have significantly different properties than the carrier making it stick together. Looking at the structure of NBOMe's and sugars at a glance they should not be entirely opposed.
So what about if you dissolved your NBOMe in IPA (whatever % it should just go in better than with dH2O), then pour that over your carrier, then carefully keep adding dH2O until you reach the point that all of the carrier sugar is dissolved yielding a clear solution, then mixing the shit out of it and letting it dry. Do you think it's conceivable there are still hot pockets created? It will take time to dry that though, but it will allow you to use granules since you are dissolving it anyway. I think that pure theory alone says that this method would be better than trying to mix powders. I realize the different solubilities could pose a problem though, I will come back to this.*

Also for the record, I never claimed I have a proven and airtight tek and I have stated this before. But still it seems unlikely to me if you use a carrier that any possible hot pockets would be more problematic than unpredictable sublingual absorption. This is only an assumption though so be careful and don't settle for easy shortcut variations on these methods we're discussing.

Note that what I did with my 25C was with 4 mg only. The bigger quantities you are trying to make preparations of the bigger the flukes can be.

So isn't it logical that if you use a moderate amount to begin with, that it would be near impossible to create dangerously uneven doses by mistake??
Please answer me that. I think until someone can be more sure of their method that you should only prepare a very limited number of doses.

You can cheat on this by preparing limited amounts parallel to each other: set aside your carrier in small piles that will be taking around 10 doses only (like I did approximately), then apply your NBOMe solution to each separate pile. Reading about the crystallization with different solubilities I realize that what I said earlier in the post using water may be worse indeed.*
So never mind the water then, let it settle and solidify / deposit into the carrier?

What do you think, sounds safe enough for you?

TBH, I'm starting to get more uncomfortable about this - I mean educating each other with these ideas is great but it is probably not worth it that people get it wrong and hurt themselves. Fair enough that some of you appreciate me participating in this discussion but it seems that someone could be mistaken and take one of these teks as an "established" simple and safe DIY thing. I agree with AMD that there are other methods that allow for much better control like liquid insufflation. For those confident and with experience in lab chemistry and kitchen chemistry, preparing small amounts can stay within margins, but scaling up can mean fucking up!

We might need to put some disclaimers here and there to avoid accidents, and to try and defer variation and application of these methods until there is more consensus.

 

[kakti]

I seriously doubt this last worry. Look if both cut and drug are 100% in solution, then they are going to be evenly distributed. How the hell are a bunch of molecules of drug going to decide to "get back together" again to form clumps in the dried result from the liquid? Molecules in liquid are not "smart" and to not "migrate" towards other molecules like them as it dries... it just does not work like that physically, so I think that is a silly concern. If they are both fully dissolved and the liquid mix shaken up even a little you are going to get a very even distribution in the dried powder, that's just physics. You are being paranoid. Stop smoking so much crack, dude

Not only did greenmeanies point out that like chemicals will crystalize together and form clumps of high-density dosages, but you also might want to read up on Capillary Action . As the blotter dries, assuming it is flat or the middle isn't a puddle, the remaining liquid will slowly migrate to the outer edges of the paper. This is common knowledge to anyone whose laid sheets of acid...


If anyone is serious about laying anything on blotter, they should simply take some ethanol/isopropyl, drop a few drops of food coloring in and do 20 practice runs. See how different "boxes", different angles, different drying techniques affect the final outcome. Learn by experiment

 

[Devourer]

Howabout you combine two ideas?

Take a quarter of a gram of mannitol or inisitol or whatever carrier you desire.

Using the liquid measurement technique, drop exactly one dose into your solution of mannitol/inisitol + solvent.

Voilla, you now don't have to worry about ODing because even with a hotspot you STILL ONLY HAVE ONE FRICKIN DOSE IN THE PILE.

you now have .25 of a gram of carrier with 1mg of 2ci-nbome mixed in with it.

Now instead of having multiple doses in a gram, and there being a chance of hotspots occuring,
you definitely only have individual doses per pile/baggie

as opposed to trying to cut up a gram with four doses on it, that its impossible to predict how much goes into each .25



c'mon guys let's be practical

 

[jamaica0535]

The bigger quantities you are trying to make preparations of the bigger the flukes can be.

But along that train of thought, the bigger quantites your working with the more total doses your creating, measuring out 1mg into 3 doses is going to be harder than than 350mg into 1000. With a moderately quality scale, you can get pretty close to 350mg, and with that being distributed over 1000, it sort of averages. Now if you try and weight out 1mg on a moderately quality scale it could be off 5mg and when you divide that into 3... well your in for a ride.

With 350mg, it being 345 or 355 isnt much of a problem.

That being said, add your sample to a known amount of warm distilled water (this is one of the few times when the syringe is the answer)
Know that 1ml=1g=1000mg

Figure out what doseage you need, say 250ug doses starting with 10mg.
This will be 10,000ug total mass.
If you wanted 250ug/ml to be the dose you would do 10,000/250 and end up with 40

40ml distilled water (measure it on a good scale. 40ml=40g)
Add 10mg to water.
Bottle in light blocking container, shake violently mix that little 10mg evenly (liquid is going to do this far better than creating)


Now you can measure out single doses by the ml or allowing it to evaporate. you can change the stoichiometry to suit your needs, but realize that a gram = 1 million micrograms.talking about something that is active at 150 micrograms. Have respect for it.

 

[General-P-Body]

This thread has helped me no end so thanks guys

although i do have one small qestion

i plan on disolving my 25i in acetone and applying to indavidual amount of carrier,my qestion is

What carrier would be preferd?

Any help would be apreciated

thanks in advance
GPB

 

[THCified]

How long is this compound stable when dissolved in ethanol?

 

[Ian224]

Howabout you combine two ideas?

Take a quarter of a gram of mannitol or inisitol or whatever carrier you desire.

Using the liquid measurement technique, drop exactly one dose into your solution of mannitol/inisitol + solvent.

Voilla, you now don't have to worry about ODing because even with a hotspot you STILL ONLY HAVE ONE FRICKIN DOSE IN THE PILE.

you now have .25 of a gram of carrier with 1mg of 2ci-nbome mixed in with it.

Now instead of having multiple doses in a gram, and there being a chance of hotspots occuring,
you definitely only have individual doses per pile/baggie

as opposed to trying to cut up a gram with four doses on it, that its impossible to predict how much goes into each .25



c'mon guys let's be practical

Fucking brilliant idea. :D How come nobody thought of that except you?

 

[azzo]

TBH i don't see anything pratical in these techniques when you just need to make an easy and fast solution with water and/or alcohol and snort the liquid instead of doing all this, and for what?
I think it won't change much snorting 0.5ml of liquid ,or even less if you want, instead of one line of powder.
It seems people love to complicate their lives.

 

[Solipsis]

Agreed, azzo.
But still, one reason to choose my 'powder carrier' method over snorting a drop of liquid is people are more used to snorting powder and you can't cut a drop in half if you want to stagger but you can divide powder.
Dropping one drop of liquid drug onto some powder doesn't give you homogenisation by a long shot because the powder was never fully submerged in solution. Yes there is only one dose in his example so it might not be dangerous but it does mean you are missing the advantage of being able to divide the powder and still know what you're doing.

I am not sure how tricky it can be to prevent nasal liquid administration from immediately dripping (whether on the front or back of the nasal passage) compared to powder dripping. There might be *some* advantage there. Or a spray could possibly help better distribution over the mucous membrane. Both with powder as well as liquid the quantity of 'carrier' should be chosen so that an excess - that would drip - is not easily formed.

Also let me say that I had negative experiences with snorting 25C and 25D that I prepared with the powder carrier method because of vasoconstriction. And I believe the route of administration to be a factor in this when I look at snorting other drugs that have a stimulant aspect. So I do think I will at some point continue testing the rest of my 25X series but I will dose the powder sublingually.

I don't claim there to be much advantage of sublingual / buccal administration of carrier powder over sublingual / buccal administration of liquid, except maybe that holding sweet mannitol under the tongue might be less unpleasant than hard alcohol. Then again maybe the liquid will act a little faster.
Using powder is also just a way not to have to fuck around with blotter paper that may be more tricky to lay than powder. And 'mystery blotter' is more likely to be assumed LSD while 'mystery powder' could be anything and could elicit more caution.

For people with limited understanding of measurement and other lab techniques, I think I would recommend against using any form of carrier because the only thing that is reliably homogenous is a filtered solution.

Generally I find very potent liquid to be a bit more scary than powder, but it mostly depends on the rate of dilution of either.

 

[Transform]

With respect to insufflation of liquids:

I always dose the NBOMes nasally because I believe this removes the uncertainty of swallowed material, giving a highly consistent experience and no need to hold saliva for 30 minutes and dribble on yourself as a result.

I typically use a 3mg/ml solution which is dropped from a vial which gives 150ug per drop. This liquid is dropped onto a hard, flat surface and allows portioning of doses of either 600ug or 750ug. It is very easily insufflated using a non-porous tube and I have had no problems at all with numbness or throat drips.

This allows for dosing when there are no scales, but on the downside it does need something better than a note to insufflate.

 

[ShaggyFin]

So this stuff doesn't seem to hard to make into blotter, or say evaporate onto sugar... I would rather take mine that way than go through the trouble of trying to take 1mg<
If/When I finally get to try some, that's how I'll do it :D