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Kratom How strong are Kratom and Kratom extracts as anti inflammatories compared to NSAIDs?

M

Mycophile

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Mar 3, 2014
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I only take Kratom at most one day a week, but I have neck problems called "cervical/degenerative disk disease" from years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I need to do a lot of physical therapy to strengthen my neck. The other day I was at a pain management specialist who was telling me I should only take NSAIDs like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin when I REALLY need it. What he explained is that when you work out to build muscle you WANT to be sore afterwards because you need the inflammation to get stronger. He said that NSAIDs MAJORLY fuck up your body's ability to strengthen a particular area.

So, with this in mind, does anyone know how strong an anti inflammatory effect Kratom and Kratom extracts (stuff like OPMS black and Hush, NOT 7-OH which I've never used) in comparison to stuff like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin?

I've generally heard that Kratom is just an atypical opioid and Mu-opioid antagonist and that its anti inflammatory effects aren't all that strong. Is that true? Or is it just as strong an anti inflammatory as Aleve/Naproxen and other NSAIDs?

If it is a strong anti inflammatory then I know I should avoid it during the days I workout. Also, does anyone know how long any anti inflammatory action on the body would last after it has initially worn off? Like, I know that Aleve can have blood thinning effects for up to a couple weeks. Does Kratom continue to lower inflammation for days after taking a single dose?
 
I think Kratom has way less anti-inflammatory effects than NSAIDs, but it has. Mitragynine and rhynchophylline have some anti-inflammatory effects, but according to the research those effects are acute and we don't know how relevant they are when taking a standard dose.
https://kationickratom.net/kratom-dolor/#Multiples_mecanismos_de_accion_¿mayor_eficacia (info in spanish)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dual anti-inflammatory activities of COX-2/5-LOX driven by kratom alkaloid extracts in lipopolysaccharide-induced RAW 264.7 cells - PubMed

Cyclooxygenase (COX) and lipoxygenase (LOX) enzymes play a pivotal role in producing pro-inflammatory eicosanoids, including prostaglandins (PGs) and leukotrienes (LTs), in the inflammation process. Mitragynine is a primary alkaloid contained in the kratom's leaves and has been reported to show...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Mycophile said:
I only take Kratom at most one day a week, but I have neck problems called "cervical/degenerative disk disease" from years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I need to do a lot of physical therapy to strengthen my neck. The other day I was at a pain management specialist who was telling me I should only take NSAIDs like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin when I REALLY need it. What he explained is that when you work out to build muscle you WANT to be sore afterwards because you need the inflammation to get stronger. He said that NSAIDs MAJORLY fuck up your body's ability to strengthen a particular area.

So, with this in mind, does anyone know how strong an anti inflammatory effect Kratom and Kratom extracts (stuff like OPMS black and Hush, NOT 7-OH which I've never used) in comparison to stuff like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin?

I've generally heard that Kratom is just an atypical opioid and Mu-opioid antagonist and that its anti inflammatory effects aren't all that strong. Is that true? Or is it just as strong an anti inflammatory as Aleve/Naproxen and other NSAIDs?

If it is a strong anti inflammatory then I know I should avoid it during the days I workout. Also, does anyone know how long any anti inflammatory action on the body would last after it has initially worn off? Like, I know that Aleve can have blood thinning effects for up to a couple weeks. Does Kratom continue to lower inflammation for days after taking a single dose?
Click to expand...
A bit off topic, but here is an interesting article article on the use of NSAIDs for physical training. Apparently, your age plays a role in whether it restricts muscle building or not.
This article also points out something else, which is good to keep in mind if you are using kratom regularly: drugs have effects on things like your heart, kidneys, etc which could affecting your training negatively. What those specifics of kratom are, this doesn't address. And unfortunately, I don't think we know much about the effects of kratom, but anti- inflammatory properties are not the only potential issue.
One other thing that I think is a big deal, and it has fucked me up in the past, is that masking pain with strong painkillers can easily make you go overboard and cause serious injury. Boy did I do that with Vicodin once, and I'm leery about kraton and exercise now for that reason.
But I do love kratom in moderation. I just wish we had better unbiased information about it.

 
mllx said:
I think Kratom has way less anti-inflammatory effects than NSAIDs, but it has. Mitragynine and rhynchophylline have some anti-inflammatory effects, but according to the research those effects are acute and we don't know how relevant they are when taking a standard dose.
https://kationickratom.net/kratom-dolor/#Multiples_mecanismos_de_accion_¿mayor_eficacia (info in spanish)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dual anti-inflammatory activities of COX-2/5-LOX driven by kratom alkaloid extracts in lipopolysaccharide-induced RAW 264.7 cells - PubMed

Cyclooxygenase (COX) and lipoxygenase (LOX) enzymes play a pivotal role in producing pro-inflammatory eicosanoids, including prostaglandins (PGs) and leukotrienes (LTs), in the inflammation process. Mitragynine is a primary alkaloid contained in the kratom's leaves and has been reported to show...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was also directed to this study by someone at Reddit:

Kratom—Pharmacology, Clinical Implications, and Outlook: A Comprehensive Review - PMC

Kratom, or Mitragyna, is a tropical plant indigenous to Southeast Asia, with unique pharmacological properties. It is commonly consumed by preparing the leaves into decoction or tea, or by grinding them into a powder. Recent evidence has revealed ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I hope you're correct that it's a weaker anti-inflammatory than NSAIDs like Naproxen. I guess we can't know for sure though. Probably best for me to avoid it or around days when I'm doing physical therapy just to be sure that I get maximum benefits from my workouts so my neck can get as strong as possible since I have some pretty bad problems with it.
 
chippermonk said:
A bit off topic, but here is an interesting article article on the use of NSAIDs for physical training. Apparently, your age plays a role in whether it restricts muscle building or not.
This article also points out something else, which is good to keep in mind if you are using kratom regularly: drugs have effects on things like your heart, kidneys, etc which could affecting your training negatively. What those specifics of kratom are, this doesn't address. And unfortunately, I don't think we know much about the effects of kratom, but anti- inflammatory properties are not the only potential issue.
One other thing that I think is a big deal, and it has fucked me up in the past, is that masking pain with strong painkillers can easily make you go overboard and cause serious injury. Boy did I do that with Vicodin once, and I'm leery about kraton and exercise now for that reason.
But I do love kratom in moderation. I just wish we had better unbiased information about it.

Click to expand...
Thanks. I looked at it a bit. Looks like older adults get more benefits from NSAIDs with working out than younger adults, so since I'm turning 45 I guess that's good for me in comparison to if I was younger.

What I don't understand is this here:

"Recent studies have revealed that older adults who consume NSAIDs have greater muscle strength gain and hypertrophy from resistance training compared to older adults who do not consume NSAIDs <a href="https://www.physio-pedia.com/The_In...iologic_Processes_and_Exercise#cite_note-p4-4">[4]</a>. These findings were contrary to the researchers initial beliefs on the effects of NSAIDs on the muscular system adaptations to resistance training. The mechanisms are, at least, partially responsible for the\ initial findings are,

  1. NSAIDs reduced muscle loss by reducing the amount of IL-6 and MuRF-1, which promote muscle loss
  2. NSAIDs induced PGF2a receptor upregulation, which causes increased skeletal muscle sensitivity to PGF2a resulting in stimulation of protein synthesis<a href="https://www.physio-pedia.com/The_In...iologic_Processes_and_Exercise#cite_note-p3-3">[3]</a>. On the contrary, NSAIDs also suppressed PGF2a, which reduces protein synthesis stimulation<a href="https://www.physio-pedia.com/The_In...iologic_Processes_and_Exercise#cite_note-p3-3">[3]</a>.
Although overall, these mechanisms inhibited protein breakdown more than they inhibited protein synthesis, which resulted in an increased net muscle protein balance. These studies involved participants between the ages of 60 and 85, which shows that the effects of NSAIDs may be age-dependent. NSAIDs may have a beneficial effect on the muscular system in older adults
Yes, you are totally right about not going overboard with workouts due to feeling less pain. The other day I was on Kratom and moving my neck in a direction I KNEW wasn't good for it just because I couldn't feel it. I woke up the next day with it being super sore. Thankfully, it then went away the next day. I was thinking that perhaps the Kratom lowered the inflammation I caused myself. I'll be SUPER careful from now on..."

So somehow it seems to be saying NSAIDs can HELP with muscle building, but this pain management doctor said the EXACT opposite: that they really negatively affect muscle building. I feel like I'd trust him over this study only because I've heard that a lot and also because my physical therapist had said that, but maybe the study is correct.

What do you think? Would you go with the doctor or this study?

And the bigger question I've got is: is there some way in which NSAIDs could help muscle building and another way in which they could hurt it? Cause this confuses me a bit and I don't know if it's just an all or nothing argument. Don't we need inflammation to build muscles? That's what this doctor said. So isn't anything that lowers inflammation during the critical after-workout period going to negatively affect your gains? And how exactly are they suggesting that the NSAIDs HELP muscle building? I'm reading it, but I'm not fully understanding.

Seems like since I can't be 100% sure that ideally I should avoid Kratom when doing physical therapy to get maximum benefits, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's as bad as NSAIDs, it just means we really don't know.

Fortunately, I don't use Kratom regularly. I'll go through periods where I'm using it a few days a week but then I'll back off again as soon as possible. I don't like to be dependent on it, so I'm careful not to let myself go entirely. I think I can still enjoy using it sometimes, but ideally I should just avoid it on the days I'm doing physical therapy.
 
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NSAIDs are for when your body refuses to stop inflaming causing pain. Just like how NMDA antagonism can force the body to repair stuff that went overlooked.
 
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When I first got into kratom I had and infection from a teeth procedure, it was painful I did take NSAID painkillers and anti inflammatory and also codeine they did nothing at all that’s the first time I did try mitrargynine isolate and full spectrum and kratom was the first time out of 40-50 days that I was relieved from pain so I would say it’s good both as a painkiller and as anti inflammatory
 
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