How often can I safely dose 2cb?

[magicstix]

OK so I have found a new love. 2cb. Well its not new. However I love 2cb more than any other drug I have tried. More than shrooms, weed, or mdma.

OK i guess thats not important but on to my question now.

How often can one safely consume 2cb? I mean I know there is no safe amount of time. For example, we all know we should eat mdma no more than once a month but better to take 3 month breaks.

Is this the same for 2cb? Does 2cb fry our brain as much as mdma does?

Is it safe to take 2cb once a month? To be honest I have been taking it like every 3 weeks. Can this be harmful?

Also I usually take 2cb at the beach, at home, in very calm environments. I feel like me and the drug get along very well. I am a very paranoid person but for some weird reason 2cb gets rid of my paranoia or helps me just accept it. Unlike cannabis or any other drug I have tried. Shit I feel more paranoid on MDMA than 2cb makes me. I understand that it a psychedelic and a bad trip can still happen. Kinda like how I binged on shrooms when I was a young one and left me with hppd like symptoms for several months. I actually believe now that bad shroom trip helped my brain prevent bad trips now in the future.

Anyways, I plan to take 30mg 2cb at a club with lots of people. I usually take 25mg at the beach or in semi public places with no problems. You think with my past experience I should be able to handle the club scene on 30mg now? Obviously I will have benzos on hand if shit goes bad.... also would 100mg mdma + 30mg 2cb be pushing it at a club environment?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Your current use pattern is safe. The only physical harm that can from it would be chronic dosing, given 5HT2B agonism. If you're in your honeymoon phase of psychedelic use, once weekly, or even more frequent is not uncommon. To avoid psychological tolerance we recommend once per month tops, but there's no reason you can't/won't switch to that later.

If you've been able to handle it publicly thus far, go for the 30mg I say.

Have fun.

 

[magicstix]

by chronic dosing you mean like ALOT of dosing. Like 3 times a week to do harm? I dont really understand "given 5HT2B agonism"

 

[xx001]

I think once every three weeks is perfectly reasonable. 2c-b doesn't work the same way mdma does so there is no reason to take long breaks. It doesn't release serotonin and isn't neurotoxic. As long as you are mentally healthy, you could probably take it weekly without any problems. HPPD is really the only risk and if you haven't had any symptoms from previous use, you probably never will.

Agonism of the 5-ht2b receptor can cause some heart valve issues. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine . I don't think 2c-b is nearly the risk that Fenfluramine is though. With Fenfluramine, people were taking it every day as a weight loss medication and obese people are already at higher risk for heart problems anyway.

 

[magicstix]

I believe HPPD is caused by extreme amounts of terror induced by a bad trip. Well for me it was. After a bad shroom trip the whole world was just so psychedelically weird for the longest time. It went away when I learned to just go with the flow. Now when I feel anxious on 2cb I remember my bad shroom trip and this some how prevents my mind from going down that path again. Its like I been there done that...

also this Agonism of the 5-ht2b can only happen from abuse im guessing not my trip every 3 weeks?

p.s are you really shulgin? Can you send me an autograph?

 

[xx001]

Most psychedelic drugs have at least some effect on the 5-ht2b receptor but they are generally much more selective to other receptors(2a, 2c). Unless you are taking large amounts every day for a long period of time(like the fenfluramine patients), your chance of developing problems is low.

p.s are you really shulgin? Can you send me an autograph?

I am whoever you believe I am.

 

[gymstud]

Ive taken large amounts daily a few points in my life
But I'm really fit
Only problem I had was missing it when I ran out

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

by chronic dosing you mean like ALOT of dosing.

I mean if you were on it 24/7, and were going through multiple grams a month for a long period of time, that probably would not be physically safe. That is to say, no bodily harm will come through a period of overzealousness, though there's still the standard risk of psychological issues (and some people get HPPD-like symptoms when using PEAs frequently).

 

[OrneTTe]

Once a month is not bad at all. 100mg of MDMA will potentiate that 2c-b by a lot. I would dose closer to 15-20mg of 2c-b and 75-90 mg of MDMA, but I am a bit sensitive to phenethylamines.

 

[Solipsis]

I believe HPPD is caused by extreme amounts of terror induced by a bad trip. Well for me it was. After a bad shroom trip the whole world was just so psychedelically weird for the longest time. It went away when I learned to just go with the flow. Now when I feel anxious on 2cb I remember my bad shroom trip and this some how prevents my mind from going down that path again. Its like I been there done that...

also this Agonism of the 5-ht2b can only happen from abuse im guessing not my trip every 3 weeks?

p.s are you really shulgin? Can you send me an autograph?

No, I think you are confusing HPPD with flashbacks. I think I have tried to clear up such confusion in the Beginner's FAQ and probably the HPPD and/or flashback thread. HPPD is about sensory effects and distortions, they don't have to mean anything. It's a neurological complication probably from being unable to filter information as well in your visual cortex, auditory circuits and maybe the thalamus (I would imagine).
Flashbacks are all about experiences that leave a deep impression, that can be triggered to be relived. The lower emotional brain can attach emotional meaning to memories, if emotional intensity gets critical it can cause particular episodes when the memories are accessed.

5-HT2B agonism happens either way if that is a compound's pharmacological property... but it is the frequency of exposure that determines how much risk one runs of illness, in this case for example cardiovascular disease. I don't think we really have data to suggest what frequency of 2C-B use is safe for the heart but probably doesn't compare to actual stimulants.
Still I would really watch out with things like HPPD or emotional / psychological disturbances from not allowing enough time between trips.

2C-B seems to be relatively benign and forgiving but doing drugs like it multiple times per week just can't be healthy - either way it would seem like abuse to me. I understand questions about the safety margin of 2C-B but we shouldn't interpret that as asking how often something can be done and gotten away with so that you or anyone else can try that frequency. Just don't do it more often than you are suggesting so that you will enjoy it a lot longer before you start reacting less positively.

I doubt that is Shulgin, he probably wouldn't call himself that here and I think he has been suffering from (debilitating) illness for a while now.

 

[Draind]

I mean if you were on it 24/7, and were going through multiple grams a month for a long period of time, that probably would not be physically safe. That is to say, no bodily harm will come through a period of overzealousness, though there's still the standard risk of psychological issues (and some people get HPPD-like symptoms when using PEAs frequently).

i am that example.
i have hppd from 2cb, i didnt have a bad trip, ever. what i did do was take it daily or near daily for 3 months

dont get to comfortable thinking this is benign, what i had were high dosed pressed pills, (half was an appropriate dose and what i took most days)
its an odd one to get hooked on, every day i could take the same dose, get the same high, but felt just a little more bad side effects, mainly muscle soreness. but when i stopped taking the pills and the visuals didnt go away, i started to realize.

edit:2 years strong and the visuals are still there.

 

[al-laddin]

i am that example.
i have hppd from 2cb, i didnt have a bad trip, ever. what i did do was take it daily or near daily for 3 months

dont get to comfortable thinking this is benign, what i had were high dosed pressed pills, (half was an appropriate dose and what i took most days)
its an odd one to get hooked on, every day i could take the same dose, get the same high, but felt just a little more bad side effects, mainly muscle soreness. but when i stopped taking the pills and the visuals didnt go away, i started to realize.

edit:2 years strong and the visuals are still there.

Draind. Can you compare what level of intensity you permanent visual effects are perhaps to say shulgin scale? I have hppd and at one point they where ++ and now they are + (easily ignored) Mine aren't as beautiful as when Im actually tripping but they are definitely residual effects of heavy psychedelic use. Also do you have any mental/psychological issues that came with the hppd?

 

[hojo82]

I have been doing it 3x a month with no adverse effects. 27mg 2c-b + GHB is the best combo I have ever done! I am in love!