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Alcohol How much alcohol is too much?

Q

Quimby

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
13
My sister says I drink too much. Yeah, okay...maybe I do. She says I should stop completely, otherwise I'm just an alkie who doesn't want to get better.

I don't think I can stop completely, and I don't want to, I enjoy it too much. I told her I'll just drink on special occasions Memorial Day, my birthday, New Years Eve, etc. I know that could be a slippery slope and could lead to drinking on like, her cat's birthday, National Cheese Day, and any other day as an excuse to get drunk, but you have to be mature enough to know when you're being stupid. 12 times a year would be a good target to shoot for.

I told her my plan is better than drinking everyday (which is what I do). I don't know...any thoughts??
 
Never quit alcohol CT, the seizure risk is high. A lady I played WOW with died in 2013 from a seizure 2 days CT. There are medications you can take to aid in stopping the cravings, and keeping the seizure risk low.

Do you get the shakes if you don't drink, feel as if you can't let a day go by without drinking, how much do you consume, do you feel drinking rules your life?
(If you answer "yes" then yeh, it's time to stop)
 
One day you will wake up and notice that you feel your kidneys/liver very sensitive. You will LITERALLY feel your organs.

I used to drink 750ml of Whiskey/Vodka like it was all good... Until one day I woke up and my THROAT hurt very much. Even after chugging as much water as I could before sleeping, I woke up dehydrated as fuck.

I thought I was okay because I can drink a bottle of Jack Daniels without blacking out and getting in my car, I would drink from 8pm-4am...I kept this up for months, until one day, I noticed that I would wake up and could feel my liver hurting.

I think alcohol will be the death of me...and it sucks
 
^Yes, it is fucked up. I at one point was drinking at least a 750ml (fifth) of whiskey per day for a couple of months and one day I woke up and had a pain in my back. It was peculiar, I though I must have just slept wrong (on a couch of course). NO. My body was unable to tolerate the amount of alcohol that i was drinking, just like the above Ignot was saying. My Kidneys were inflamed/damaged/stressed whatever the fuck. I went to try to urinate and it took about 5 minutes (seemed like hours) and was painful. Being the amateur medicus that I imagine myself to be. I knew something was wrong. I lied to myself and tried very hard to believe it wasn't anything bad. I couldn't stop because of the horrible effects of withdrawal, even after just a couple of months of sedative/hypnotic abuse, the return to homeostasis feels like a living nightmare.

I believe the standard here in america is anything over 3 drinks per day is potentially detrimental to your health. Their are exceptions to every medical rule/belief. Some people smoke 3 packs a day and live to 100. Some people drink all day every day and enjoy the same benefit.

Either way, ethyl alcohol is poisonous to the body.
 
Well I think the issue comes down to how much you were drinking per day and over how much time were you drinking it. For a period of time I used to drink 6-8 drinks over 6 hours (from 6pm to 12pm), 3-4 times a week. I honestly don't think that was a huge deal (didn't get hangovers or have negative consequences associated with my drinking) but I got sent to rehab anyway (well i guess you could call rehab a negative consequences lol) and have been sober since. Back even further in my life I was drinking over 1.75 liters of whiskey a day, for obvious reasons that was way too much and I had to detox. Someone said that if you get the shakes from not drinking then you need to stop, I totally agree with that and obviously you need to stop in a safe, controlled manner preferably managed by a doctor. Fact of the matter is that having a few drinks everyday is not a big deal, it is when those drinks lead to more drinks that there is a problem. It's also a problem if you have to drive somewhere but you still feel the need to have your drinks, that's the sort of indicator I look for in determining whether someone has a problem or not.

As far as the drinking on holidays thing goes, if you have an actual problem controlling your drinking then that will never work. If you can do it, even if you drink on a few random days for shits and giggles then good for you.

I mean my brother likes to drink about once a week and have 3-5 drinks and watch a TV show to blow of steam from being a chemical engineer. He always gets his work done and is always on time, so basically drinking comes second to his responsibilities and it in no way controls him. Whereas my father likes to drink every Friday and Saturday, without fail, having 4-5 drinks over 2-3 hours. Both use alcohol as an escape mechanism, but given more free time my father would drink more while my brother would not. On vacations I have observed this and concluded while neither have a real problem that inflicts negative consequences upon them, my brother sees alcohol as a novelty and my father sees it as a tool.

I saw alcohol as a medication for my mental health problems. The way in which you use alcohol is probably the most important determining factor in whether alcohol is right for you or not. A CEO of a very profitable fortune 50 company used to sit around in his offices a sip scotch and smoke cigars while people came in and reported on the different aspects of the business; the guy was never drunk though always sharp in the mind and tongue. He may have been psychologically dependent on his scotch, but he can do whatever he wants because the alcohol was not interfering with his ability to live his life (he also had a chauffeur which allowed for him to safely engage in the behaviors he wanted). Sorry for all the examples but I can't help myself for the reason that within the stories of others may lie the answers we need to write our own stories they we want to.

Views of alcohol
Tool: Depending upon the efficacy we can become too reliant on a tool, such as to say if it does the job so quickly that the quality of the job becomes meaningless
Novelty: Something fun to play with if time permits, however if it were to cause any negative side effects then it would be abandoned entirely
Medication: This is the answer to a problem I'm having (likely chronic), side effects are nearly irrelevant as long as the medication does most of what it's supposed to.

What's your own view of alcohol? and does that view even acknowledge the vast majority of the pros and cons of using alcohol? or are you ignoring some of the negatives? if so would you mind further examining your past and present relationships with alcohol? in that case if the pros outweighed the cons then could you look into the future of your physical and mental health if you continue to drink alcohol at the rate you are going? did you find that your health will be most unaffected or did you find that you will deteriorate more rapidly if you choose not to change?

The best answers to our unresolved questions are better questions. I hope that I've provided some material that will allow you to brainstorm your situation more effectively. Best of luck and be safe.
 
Very interesting thoughtfull post thanx ThePharmacist4925, a must read I may add.

Something I will remind myself off litterally visual (in writing) to reexamine tomorrow, when sobered up. One more reason to not add any more comments beyond this point. Peace out, off to bed.
 
Well, I really want to thank you all for taking the time to post such thoughtful posts. I'll try to address everyone. Pharmacist, some days I drink and some days I don't. I like to drink. I also am a good cook and I'll pair like Mexican beer with street tacos, or wine with homemade spaghetti and meatballs, or a martini with a steak, etc etc. But I can't just have one and that's it. I usually drink to get fucked up too. I can't be like the lucky noes who can have one a go back to work, if I have to do that, I just won't drink. I have drank for most of my adult life and only probably had at the most six months sobriety in five decades of being on this planet. I also have chronic pain and take oxy for it. Neither get in the way of each other and I have a high tolerance.

Kief, (one of my idols btw) I feel you bro. My side where my liver is is swollen I must admit. I definitely need to cut back, but like I said it's really hard to just stop completely. It gets better when I lay off for awhile. But, I seem to find a way to come back to it. I guess it doesn't help that there's a rock n' roll bar right across the street from my apartment. At least I don't have to drive...

Ignot, if you can drink a whole bottle...well, yeah. I can too but I usually don't, I'm out by then. Sometimes I think physical symptoms are our pre-intervention interventions. I like you, need to do something. The question is what?

LilikoiMoon, I'm so sorry about your friend. I don't shake. Sometimes though if I'm having a totally shitty day I'll really crave a drink to settle down and I think the anticipation will make my hands shake, but I also have a nerve disorder so it's kind of hard to tell. I don't know, that's a good question. I'll have to be more in tune if that's happening. Thank you.

Priest, you may be right. And emkee, you'll chime in when you're ready.

Thanks again everybody, you've given me a lot to think about.
 
I'm fast becoming a drunkard again, on top of way too many benzos.
Been here before, nearly died from it, actually - seizures and suicidality as a result of attempts to quit.
Don't end up dependent upon GABA-ergics, especially EtOH.

The legality, availability and societal acceptance of alcohol is as toxic to society as it is to individuals.
It's so very easy to rationalise your use, 'wine and spaghetti' mix well - if someone who cares for you tells you your use is problematic, that's a solid indicator of use becoming abuse. The shakes, pains, crippling anxiety, sweats, insomnia, delirium, desperation, rationalisation... they will come knocking, if they haven't already.

It's almost cliché on this board but ultimately it rings true; if you have to ask online strangers if you have a problem: you do.
If you ask about the line between use and abuse: you've crossed it.

Ethanol is a major toxin. There is no escaping that fact.

I wish you the best of luck, whatever you choose to do.
<3
 
I've been drinking daily for almost 4 years without my stints in rehab and jail just recently I was drinking a 5th a day with hepc and my organs hurt all the time then I got arrested and did 60 days and cleaned up from methadone

I've been addicted to everything and booze is the worst
 
Quimby said:
She says I should stop completely, otherwise I'm just an alkie who doesn't want to get better.
Click to expand...

That is 100% bullshit.

I have no opinion on the rest, just needed to state the FACT that most people can cut down their drinking to a healthy level without needing to discontinue entirely. The percent depends on the study (there's no good ones, just small n ones) but somewhere between 60-90%. The classic "AA alcoholic" that needs to stop entirely is only about 10% of the "problem using" population.
 
Felonious Monk: I very respectfully disagree with what you say but completely respect your opinion as I do every person's on this board. I've met very, very, few serious alcoholics who have been able to continue their drinking in a respectful and healthy way, unless it's the short "honeymoon" phase leading back to dependence. I also, respectfully, disagree with actively telling people that 12 step meetings are not worth their time. It could dissuade people from getting the help that they need.

One thing that should probably be addressed is the post-acute withdrawal phase. Yes, acute detox from sedative/hypnotics is very hard. It's, in reality, a phenomenon beyond verbal description. The pain, torture, body screaming, your mind telling you you're weak, worthless, hopeless. Maybe you drink so bad that you're hallucinating, it's not uncommon for someone to be an "alcoholic". Volume is of course, irrelevant. It is the need, the dependence, the desire, the romancing of the feelings that indicate addiction.

Once one is over the hump and not feeling like their skeleton is trying to be pulled out of their skin predator-style, their is the above stated PAWS. You are not "back to normal" in the true sense of the phrase for longer than you think. It will take time for your body to return to it's true original state. It's not gonna be sunshine and roses just because you quit and made it through detox. Not to be a downer, but depression and anxiety are to be expected for extended periods of time, while your body's various chemical communication systems are 100% homeostatic.

This goes for any drug. I've been an alcohol and opiate/oid addict for some time and I'm currently going through a detox of methadone; the drug that kept me off of heroin. It also, no doubt, has fucked considerably with my brain's endogenous morphines and other such systems. I can expect depression and apathy to some degree for a period time, but I know from empirical evidence and hearsay on the forums that you do get back to normal if you can remain strong. Detoxing does not change one's status as an addict.

Life is the test. Living in the real world. Dealing with real-life problems. Period
 
Felonious Monk said:
That is 100% bullshit.

I have no opinion on the rest, just needed to state the FACT that most people can cut down their drinking to a healthy level without needing to discontinue entirely. The percent depends on the study (there's no good ones, just small n ones) but somewhere between 60-90%. The classic "AA alcoholic" that needs to stop entirely is only about 10% of the "problem using" population.
Click to expand...

Why do you say this with such conviction? What his sister said may be inaccurate and a little condescending, but you make it sound like nobody should even bother to stop because most people can just cut it down to a healthy level. Even if someone could cut their alcohol intake down significantly instead of discontinuing altogether, at what point do you think it would be more advantageous to continue instead?
 
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I say it with certainty because it is a fact. Some, but not all, alcoholics need to stop drinking entirely. The AA lines are simply untrue, there are no scientific studies that support their methods (in fact, every study ever done shows the opposite, including AA's own study that is referenced in the Big Book, but even that is over 50 years old, and excluded the answers of women because they didn't match the mens').

Grinders, to answer your other questions, I simply believe that is more individual (best decided with your doctor and therapist, not a bunch of drunks at a meeting or an "addiction counselor" who has no college degree), and creating the false dichotomy of A. abstinence OR B. relapse and die, does only a disservice to most people who have a drinking problem.

I do not mean to say that there are not people who are helped by AA. The more important point is that AA is no more effective than placebo, and many people overdose and die because of AA/NA's teachings about abstinence and relapse (causing people to go on a binge, rather than ever try to use safely).

I highly recommend everyone read these articles by The Atlantic. They're quite long but do an excellent job of explaining the objective issues with AA.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/
 
I'm not sure what advice I could give but I just wanted to say I enjoyed that spiel about addiction Kief R. Good speech.
 
Felonious Monk said:
I say it with certainty because it is a fact. Some, but not all, alcoholics need to stop drinking entirely. The AA lines are simply untrue, there are no scientific studies that support their methods (in fact, every study ever done shows the opposite, including AA's own study that is referenced in the Big Book, but even that is over 50 years old, and excluded the answers of women because they didn't match the mens').

Grinders, to answer your other questions, I simply believe that is more individual (best decided with your doctor and therapist, not a bunch of drunks at a meeting or an "addiction counselor" who has no college degree), and creating the false dichotomy of A. abstinence OR B. relapse and die, does only a disservice to most people who have a drinking problem.

I do not mean to say that there are not people who are helped by AA. The more important point is that AA is no more effective than placebo, and many people overdose and die because of AA/NA's teachings about abstinence and relapse (causing people to go on a binge, rather than ever try to use safely).

I highly recommend everyone read these articles by The Atlantic. They're quite long but do an excellent job of explaining the objective issues with AA.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/
Click to expand...

I agree with you, and a lot of what you're saying are qualms I had with the Big Book/12 step program when I went through rehab the first time around. Maybe conviction was the wrong choice of words because you're correct, it's certainly possible to cut down your drinking without stopping entirely. My point is, what is the benefit of decreasing alcohol intake instead of stopping? I find it just as disingenuous to suggest that slowing down is the better option just because it's a possibility.
 
It is also important to note both the social and the physical consequences of ethanol abuse. One can manifest without the other, although social problems usually present themselves first.

If you are getting drunk and causing problems for yourself or others, you need to stop drinking. If your drinking a lot and concerned about your health, then you should cut back or quit.

For me, the negative physical effects (hangovers) prevent me from going on benders. If I drink a lot, the next day or two I will feel like absolute shit and be repulsed at the idea of alcohol for quite a while. I guess I am lucky in that sense.
 
^Right, I think the main indicator for addiction that anyone of us can agree upon, is the continued use of any substance despite detriment to their life
 
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