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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

How many Aust BLs inject (IV/IM) drugs recreationally?

Originally posted by Runner
Sorry, I can't back up my 90% figure since I used it as a generalised statement to make a point. The point is that *junkies form the majority of IV users*. This is sad, but true. I thought my point was quite clear.

I disagree. My point is that the majority of the so-called "once in a blue IDUs" go unnoticed. Full time, dependent IV users represent the sharp end of the stick.

Think about this: everyone agrees there is social stigma associated with IV drug use. Now this will scare off most of the people. The only people it won't scare off are the open minded ones like here on bluelight and the junkies (or those about to turn into ones).

I don't agree with this either. The stigma means that people who inject at all (either once a year, or three times a day) often won't talk about it / admit their use to non users. When someone has a habit so out of control it is on public display (ie homeless) it often stands out, meaning you notice it more.

Now Flexi, you state of 1.8% of people that have injected probably in fact reflects the users that have tried once etc, or the users that are well informed, open minded etc. much like on bluelight. For our purposes, we shall ignore the ones that have tried injecting once or twice. This would probably bring your figure of 1.8% to just over 0.

That 1.8% figure is for lifetime use. That means the question asked is something like "Have you ever injected any illict drug?". There is another question in the National Household Survey on "Recent Use" of illicit drugs. "Recent use" is defined as having been used at all in the previous 12 months.

Marijuana/cannabis 12.9
Pain-killers/analgesics 3.1
Tranquillisers/sleeping pills 1.1
Steroids 0.2
Inhalants 0.4
Heroin 0.2
Methadone 0.1
Other opiates 0.3
Amphetamines 3.4
Cocaine 1.3
Hallucinogens 1.1
Ecstasy/designer drugs 2.9
Injected drugs 0.6

The real junkies wouldn't have a land line to participate in the survey Have a think about that.

I mentioned that. My point in mentioning the fact that the National Household Survey doesn't access people without housing or a telephone, as well as people in jails, rehabs, hospitals etc, was to show that the figure mentioned must exclude people in these settings, thus excluding many of the people I think you are trying to say make up the majority of IDUs.

BT - For me, the term "junky" is a pejorative term that doesn't accurately say anything in particular, except that the person using the term is trying to put someone else down. I can never work out what people are really referring to when they use this term, but I think generally it means "drug user who appears more fucked up than myself".

There are more accurate ways of talking about the different types / stages of drug use that people experience.
 
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For me a junky is any one of these:
* A person with a drug dependence which was initially used for recreation
* A person that has to find means other than a legit job to support a drug habbit
* A person who enjoys drugs more than anything else in their life
* A person that cannot function normally without the administration of a drug

In my wide personal experience, a lot more IV users fall under the above categories than any other users.

Not to forget the other significant point I have brought up. To all the pro-ponents of the elimination of the IV stigma... Do you realise that last time you shot that gluggy stinky meth, you've administered yourself with probably about 20% meth and the rest was a mixture of iodoephedrine, P2P (that's where the stink comes from and that's a bad poison), iodine (eats through wood and is very slightly soluable in water), unwashed organic solvents which I use to kill bugs for my collection (entomology is my hobby) and possibly worse if a dealer decides to cut it with something (I personally know of someone who once sprayed some cockroach killer stuff on the gear to make it taste more bitter and also bi-carb soda, or even better ever heard of a "hot-shot"? That's when you add sulphuric acid if you wanna kill/scare someone or only a *little* bit to make shit gear just a little more bad tasting). These aren't myths. I knew of people who did this.

Must feel good knowing that someone new will try to IV because of your thoughtless drivel which creates a sudden atmosphere of "IV is not bad at all, its all about being open minded".
 
Runner, you know some fucked up people. However, it is never in a dealers best interest to kill his clientele. Most people score from a trusted source who would have no interest in harming them or making them sick. The situations you present would be extremely rare, and I'd guess that your more likely to die from the drug itself regardless of admin, outweighing any real need for consideration of such uncommon occurences.

Yes impurities are unavoidable. Steps can be taken to minimise risks, such as washing and recrystallising your meth. This coupled with a micron filter of sorts helps reduce impurities.

IV has added risks, as has been stated in a few posts above. Nowhere has anyone said "IV is not bad at all", so don't try and bend our words. Many people, who are not junkies, are prepared to take the additional risks.

Also, your definition of a junky includes probably around half the population.
 
I'll have to disagree with runner on that unfounded 90% statistic.
I know alot of people who IV, and from all walks of life and different drugs, and only about 50% (if that) would fall into anyones 'junky' category.
People who IV and havent 'fucked up' tend to usually keep their drug use discrete, which I think skews peoples observations.
If more IV users who haven't fucked up (or so to speak) voiced their method, I think that alone would do woinders to eliminate the stigma.
That said, IV'ing is bad, mmkay?
 
I suppose the issue we're headed towards now is something along the lines of "Does a social stigma against IV drug reduce harm?"

BigTrancer :)
 
Forgot to add that I don't smoke bongs either for the same reason I don't slam. Boils down to why am I taking the drugs? To get fucked up, or to have a good time?

Well as was mentioned, if people are slamming cloudy liquids then I would say no. But then again the few people that would IV are more likely to research it properly so that they know what they are doing, we all know how to swallow something, but IVing is something I hope you would do a little research on before giving it a go so as to get it right.

But then again you might get shown by people who don't know what they are doing and think that they are showing you the right way.

This is why in my opinion we need more injecting rooms, or atleast easier access to proper techniques through education.
 
I've undoubtedly said enough, but, WTF. Once more unto the breach!
Was it the Romans who coined this phrase: “There are lies, damn lies and statistics.” (Anyone know the Latin translation?)
Still, even mainstream research tends to be more accurate than a figure plucked from mid-air.
Let's think about this logically. Does someone just decide to inject and the next day they wake up "a junkie"? All drug use takes place along a continuum which we all move up and down along - from abstinence to chaotic dependent use (and those things don't always go together.) We all swing back and forth along that continuum, no matter what MOA we choose.
And so at any time there are going to be many injectors who are working, and are not suffering any harms great enough to impact on them negatively.
From the Curtin Study (this is from '96 and i can't find it online - I can copy and send it to people if you doubt my honesty - who can trust a junkie, after all ? ;)- or you're just interested.
"40% of users self-identifying as dependent are in full-time work. Of those, more than 40% are on salaries of $40K or above. "
Believe it or not, we have phones! We hold down jobs (in fact, the study goes on to point out that users often spend longer than the average in any one position, because we rely so heavily on the income for our well-being.) Check out
AIVL is the Australian Injecting and Illicit Drug Users’ League – the peak body representing state drug user organisations. Let me create a vision of our manager-level staff (all women FTR). For obvious reasons I’m not going to focus on any one of them, but rather I’ve created a profile modelled on those among them who inject opiates regularly. (We also have non-injecting meth-fans)
“Campaigning Claire” is a dependent opiate user and has been for nearly 20 years – some breaks in there obviously, but not all that many. She would use heroin everyday if she could, but for financial reasons is forced to endure methadone and the crap that goes with being on maintenance, so that she can function. She’s been working full-time, continuously, to build drug user orgs, peer-ed, and achieve law reform for all drug users for more than a decade.
Last year she was the only self-identifying drug user to address the UN General Assembly Special Session on HIV/AIDS, in front of more than ten thousand delegates.
She works 50 hour weeks and earns $70K. She has taken AIVL from no funding to having just secured a contract for $1.5 million in 3 years – and she’s squeezed that out of a conservative government openly hostile to users, law reform, and harm reduction in general. She contracted Hep C before anyone even knew the virus existed, and is just starting to experience symptoms like exhaustion.
She meets with the Federal Health Minister or Parliamentary Secretary for Health at least twice-yearly.
She is my hero(in-e). She shows users at our best, reflect the good in us, and I love her for it. But it’s sad, too, sometimes, because I know how much more she could do if not constrained by prohibition; and she reflects that in us all as well.

Who are you, Runner, to set the terms by which someone so gifted - and willing to use her gifts for community good – must live her life? What makes your morals god-given?
I’ve been living with life-threatening illness since I was 18 (and before people jump to conclusions it is not the result of injecting or drug use at all); the initial prognosis was dead before 21 – I’m 28. I have at times been prescribed large amounts of morphine for pain-relief; and the side-effects of my medication are pretty yukky. I’ve worked full-time for 7 years, opiate-dependent for all of that on methadone and heroin when I could afford it, plus all my other excursions. As Acting President, I just signed the contracts with the Federal Health Dept for AIVL’s $1.5 million, and I ultimately bear legal responsibility for it.
I fit several of your criteria for junky. Who are you to dictate the terms I live my life under? Told to gear up for the other side when you were 18? Signed any contracts for $1.5 million lately? And if you have: it’s still my life. I intend to live however long I have the way that brings me the most pleasure and love, and I’ll use my energy to try and create a society where others can (legally) be loved and be happy.
For more on “functional” use visit http://www.drugtext.org/library/books/waysofuse/default.htm
Call us what you will, we are building something for our communities. The user movement created NSP, for example, did it illegally at first and were arrested for it; and that has saved the lives of tens of thousands of users (25000 according to the NSP: Return on Investment report http://www.health.gov.au/pubhlth/publicat/document/roisummary.pdf and is held up by the government as their great contribution to harm reduction. And we were helping ravers get money and create the structures to do peer health promotion as early as ’93.

“Must feel good knowing that someone new will try to IV because of your thoughtless drivel which creates a sudden atmosphere of "IV is not bad at all, its all about being open minded"
Do you give drug users any credit? And, again, why is it OK to post experiences and harm reduction tips for everything but injection, when you also seem to argue that we (injectors) are more in need of that info than anyone?!
What I do feel good about is knowing that users have implemented safer injection strategies because of contact with me personally or through my peer ed work. And does anyone else doubt that I have put a lot of thought into this topic, whether you agree with me or not?
frankly if someone does choose to inject because of what I’ve written (my words are just that powerful , apparently), no, I don’t have a problem with that. I'm not ashamed of my activities or ideas, nor frightened of others pursuing similar paths.
For those who are interested, I’ll be posting a series of articles that I and other “junkies” have written, explaining the users movement and just what we have achieved.
 
I'm not gonna argue or dispute anything anyone has said from the point of my last post.

One thing I have to add is that many posters in this thread seem to either be some kind of an fair exceptions or people desperatelly trying to justify their IV use. That's just my personal observation. I still have respect for everyone who have posted in this thread as i'm sure, none would fall under my definition of a real "junky" (and yes there exceptions to my definitions like there exception to anything) or at least under the "junky" I am familiar with.

On a different topic, Ketamine has just popped into my head as a distinctive "safe" street drug to IM inject providing it is still in a sealed 5mL ampule/bottle obtained from a vet.
 
I wouldn't mind IM'ing Ketamine at one stage, but as I am such a rare user I feel that snorting it as a powder is already a really powerful experience.

Self administered IV and me just don't go together. I'm too chicken shit to try it.
 
if they made a chocky bar called "junky bar" it'd sell out over and over. the only thing stigmatic about junkyism id the needle!
 
Runner said:
One thing I have to add is that many posters in this thread seem to either be some kind of an fair exceptions or people desperatelly trying to justify their IV use.
What is there to justify? Some people snort drugs, some people smoke drug, some people shoot drugs.
End of story.
 
My 2c is that although I haven't tried shooting anything. I probly would if all conditions were right.

The thought of doing it scares me but I like to try everything, to me it's still seems a dirty way of doing it (although it doesn't have to be) but I don't pass on judgement for it. Everyone has there own head to make there own judgements. (I just hope people do do it safely and correctly)

The only reason that it seems a dirty way of doing things is probly through media coverige and such where they always pertray it as being just that. So when someone tells me they have shot it, an instant picture comes to mind of a dirty needle shared between friends. (I know this is probably minority if at all but thats what comes to mind)

It's obvircely the most effective way of taking drugs, just make sure if you do it you do it safely.

I might like to add that shooting can be a safe and clean way of doing it and alot cleaner than snorting a line off a toilet cistern I still cant understand why people would do this.
Make a mission of going to the car and having a line off a nice clean mirror or Cd cover the missions are always fun.
 
Things how it would have to be for me to try.

1. An experienced user in which I trusted. (which is not available currantly)
2. Clean brand new needles (in unopened packets)
3. A safe invironment (I think it would have to be a home)

I thinks thats all not a big list but every one extremly important to me.
 
Putting my hand up.
I'm not ashamed. Don't kid yourself, ingesting is ingesting, its still going into your body.
I just like to get my money's worth.
 
I'm raising my hand too. I have IVed speed and pills numerous times, but now rarely inject anything. In fact I've only used IV only once during 2003. Overall my total drug use has declined, probably because I'm over the novelty of it. I take a pill or two about once a month, which is nothing compared to the indulgent amount of speed I enjoyed about two years ago.
I think there is a definite needle stigma, but the only social comment we can draw from this is the ignorace of those harbouring the stigma.
I can testify that there are a LOT more people injecting than most people think (I could name 50). We don't have track marks, and you couldn't pick us out of a croud. To each his own :)
 
I IV speed and meth and can never go back to snorting.
Unfortunately it is addictive, and to make matters worse i have invisible veins which means most of the time I am injecting into the back of my hand...
 
It's weird, in my experience I've noticed that almost every female I've met that IV's has trouble due to deeper and harder to spot veins.
I imagine it's something to do with muscle/fat ratio differences between genders.
 
Never. Probably because I have never come across anyone in my circle of friends who has done it past experimentation, so it hasn't really been an option.
Plus I have a huge problem with needles and I will avoid them at all costs.
 
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