Hello All. I am currently using kratom to detox from suboxone. Today is the first day that I have taken the kratom and it is 39 hours since my last dose of sub. I tapered down to around 2 mg a day of sub and had been on it for aprroximately 10 months. Oddly enough, I actually can feel the effects of the kratom. I bought a moderately strong strain of kratom and a weaker one. I am using the strong one first and saving the weaker one for when the sub is not in my system as much. My question is, how long can I take the kratom for before becoming physically dependent on it and experiencing withdrawal symptoms from getting off of it? My plan is to take a pretty high dose of kratom for around 10 days and then switch to imodium. Any help with this would be appreciated.
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
How long will it take to become physically dependent on Kratom?
- Thread starter inkpixie
- Start date
Don't know specifically about Kratom but 10 days is long enough to start getting physically addicted to pretty much anything (or at least feel rebound effects from stopping). I think you'll be fine as long as you stop at 10, but you should try to go as long as you can without taking anything. Sub withdrawals don't really kick in til a couple days after your last dose, and if you use your kratom up in 10 days you're gonna be feeling the worst of it without any kratom.
Also, you really don't want to stay in the habit of taking something to make you feel normal. A little immodium or kratom sporadically when you're really feeling shitty is fine, but if you're planning on taking something every day for 2+ weeks then you're not breaking the habit. Sure, you'll get off the subs, but you're still in the habit of taking something every day to make you feel good and that will lead you back to subs or dope really fast.
Also, you really don't want to stay in the habit of taking something to make you feel normal. A little immodium or kratom sporadically when you're really feeling shitty is fine, but if you're planning on taking something every day for 2+ weeks then you're not breaking the habit. Sure, you'll get off the subs, but you're still in the habit of taking something every day to make you feel good and that will lead you back to subs or dope really fast.
Well said. I agree with you. Right now my aim is to get totally clean. The problem is that I need to minimize the withdrawal as much as possible so that I can take care of my kids. Going back on the sub is not the answer for me because I flat out can't afford it. I have never been through full blown sub withdrwal before so I don't know how long the real physical part will last. I figured that hopefully after 10 days they should be easing off by then and I can try to tough it out while retaining some sort of sanity. If anyone else knows what I will be dealing with and how I can minimize this I sure would appreciate your input.
I've been hearing some very good reviews of Kanna recently. Works primarily on the serotonergic system and has no direct effect on the opoid system, so it wont help any physical addiction in any way, but it might be a good way of reducing anxiety-induced cravings if you catch my drift. If you feel you need something to calm down and don't wish to resort to Kratom
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Everyone is different in how fast dependence builds, it depends on a bunch of factors. But you are in a different situation than someone who has never taken opioids before. People who have been dependent on opioids before will develop tolerance and dependence faster than someone who hasn't. And when you are currently physically dependent on opioids, if you switch to a new drug/plant that binds to those opioid receptors, you will get withdrawal symptoms if you stop abruptly regardless of how long you've used the new opioid. It's not like you can really just switch to a different opioid, use as much of it as you want for only for a short length of time and then stop it abruptly without withdrawals - everyone would be doing that otherwise. The main alkaloids in kratom are believed to bind to μ-opioid receptors, and buprenorphine is a partial μ-opioid agonist. They will have slightly different binding profiles and therefore likely have incomplete cross-tolerance and cross-dependence, but even if there was some precise time limit of developing dependance to kratom it's not like you can just take kratom for less than that time limit and then stop it and feel fine. The idea is to just use as little kratom as possible and taper off of it, just like you would if using a Suboxone taper to quit heroin. In addition, Suboxone withdrawal is generally long-lasting, you will likely have PAWS to deal with even if you can cover the acute withdrawal symptoms. I would try to use only the bare minimum of kratom needed to make your Sub withdrawals bearable and try to gradually reduce your dose.
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Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Trying to quit suboxone with Kratom did not really work for me. Eventually I just became addicted to the kratom and had just as much difficulty stopping. I'd argue kratom is almost as expensive as a suboxone habit as well, but I hope your experience is easier than mine was.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
i never really got physically dependent on kratom, even after using it for 3-6 months. The withdrawal is like a mild stimulant mixed with a mild opiate withdrawal. It took me about 2 months of daily use to start experiencing these issues, which were mild. Just my experience.
Kratom is really cheap where i'm from, like insanely cheap. Maybe sub with insurance is cheaper but it is totally sustainable cost wise even while working a shitty minimum wage job for me.
Kratom is really cheap where i'm from, like insanely cheap. Maybe sub with insurance is cheaper but it is totally sustainable cost wise even while working a shitty minimum wage job for me.
Thank you for all of the advice. I am tracking my progress with all of this in a homeless thread labeled "experiment on detoxxing from suboxone". I spelled detoxing wrong. Oops. Anyway, I have looked it up and so far what I have come up with is that kratom binds more to the delta receptors than the mu. Sub binds to the mu. Hopefully this means that I am not just replacing a substance that binds to the same receptors as the substance that I am trying to get off of and in turn just prolonging the withdrawals. What I am trying to do is minimize the acute withdrawals so that I can still function. I will have to deal with PAWS but I have done this before and got through it. I am going to do my best to taper off of the kratom while still being prepared to go through about 4 days of WD from it. I have done this before also but they aren't as bad as other WD although they are still uncomfortable. It seems the lesser of 2 evils as long as it works out this way. Well, thank you again for your input. There were a lot of good things said.